View Poll Results: Can Firaxis fix Civ III completely with a patch?
Yes, they can and they will eventually 45 40.91%
Yes, but they won't fix all things I think are flawed 34 30.91%
No, certain things just can't be fixed 21 19.09%
Not sure, we'll see 10 9.09%
Voters: 110. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
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Old December 4, 2001, 11:01   #1
Martinus Magnificus
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Can a patch do the trick for civIII ?
Can Civ III really be fixed with a patch?

Personally, I think most things can be fixed, but I'm not sure the following will/can ever be fixed by a patch:
- the combat system, lacking firepower
- corruption, based on palace distance (who came up with that flawed idea in the first place?)
- game speed issues
- modification issues, since most game files are hard coded

I'd like to hear your opinions on this.

NB: I'm not asking you to list all the flaws of the game, 'cause I think we have seen enough of those threads already.
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Old December 4, 2001, 12:16   #2
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A patch can make anything work, whether you release one or not is another matter ...
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Old December 4, 2001, 12:36   #3
Martinus Magnificus
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I think we can be fairly sure that Firaxis will release more patches (after all, there's one coming up this friday, and Civ II had many patches). So the question is not if they will release more patches, but if these patches can and will fix the apparent bugs and other features that tend to unbalance the game.
Think of basic features like the combat system, which I think is unrealistic: do you really believe they'll redesign that from scratch? I don't think so.
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Old December 4, 2001, 13:01   #4
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Quote:
- the combat system, lacking firepower
- corruption, based on palace distance (who came up with that flawed idea in the first place?)
these things aren't flawed or bugs.
they're a part of the game. (and they reflect reality)

the other 2 things............
I don't know. I can hardly imagine that they can speed up the game with a patch. I think modification can be expanded in a patch.
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Old December 4, 2001, 13:08   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by CyberShy
they're a part of the game. (and they reflect reality)
Like planes not destroying boats?

Dont tell me, in this "Reality" spearmen fight tanks often, ppl where shoes on there hands and hamburgers eat ppl?
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Old December 4, 2001, 13:22   #6
Martinus Magnificus
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I'm well aware that many of you don't agree with me on the combat system and corruption, but that's not what this thread is about.
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Old December 4, 2001, 13:33   #7
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Well threads always go funny
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Old December 4, 2001, 13:47   #8
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Wrong_shui, I agree with you, but we have others threads for complaining about CivIII's wrongs.
The question here is: Do you believe that patches will be enough, or do you think the whole concept of Civ III is flawed and can't be properly patched. I fear it is the latter. Think about game speed for instance. That's not something that can be fixed easily (if at all) with a patch.
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Old December 4, 2001, 14:00   #9
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I think that the patch will go a long way in enhancing the experience.

I really think that eventually they need to address the late-game tediousness. Personally I find that I enjoy the ancient through industrial period emensely and then lose interest in my games during the modern age (Even when the outcome is still in doubt) There is just too many units, too much polution, too many workers,too many naval units, too much of everything. Does anyone else agree?

Mike
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Old December 4, 2001, 15:10   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wrong_shui
where shoes on there hands and hamburgers eat ppl?
Hey, another Simpsons fan!

*EDIT*

I was pressed for time when I originally made the post.

Last edited by Setsuna; December 4, 2001 at 16:14.
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Old December 4, 2001, 15:33   #11
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Wrong_shui, it's indeed not really 'real' that bombers can't destroy ships.

I think the spearman / tank thingy is quiet normal.
It happens pherhaps in 1% of the battles, and I think that's not that strange. Tanks can get stuck in terrain, something might go wrong. Spearmen can climb on the tank and there's nothing the tank can do about it.

but the topic has been discussed before.
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Old December 4, 2001, 15:41   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wrong_shui


Like planes not destroying boats?

Dont tell me, in this "Reality" spearmen fight tanks often, ppl where shoes on there hands and hamburgers eat ppl?
Uhhh.. if you're not wearing your shoes on your hands then where do you wear them, on your feet?! Don't be so silly! How you supposed to type while wearing shoes on your feet?!
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Old December 4, 2001, 15:57   #13
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Everything can be fixed, and anything can be changed via a patch. However, many of the things that are being complained about on these boards are design and gameplay issues, not programming flaws or technological limitations.

What is most interesting to me is how many of the complaints have to do with features that were specifically requested on these very forums while the game was in development. That, and the fact that the game is simply harder to beat, requires new and varied strategies, and so forth than any of the previous Civ's (at comparable difficulty levels).

Thank you, Firaxis, for listening in the past, for responding to our requests, for being so prompt with the first patch, and for continuing to listen now. And thank you for the sleepless nights! (Yup, you did it to me again!)
 
Old December 4, 2001, 16:10   #14
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Seem to care.....
The fact that Soren and the group are surfing these forums and posting replies(They even replied to one of my Threads), shows they are working hard on what really needs to be fixed. I think the combat and corruption issues are more personal prefences, and need to be addressed in the editor. I expect and hope for a game that will cotinue to evolve and grow (that probably means an expansion pack rather than a bunch of patches ).
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Old December 4, 2001, 16:24   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by TheDarkside


Uhhh.. if you're not wearing your shoes on your hands then where do you wear them, on your feet?! Don't be so silly! How you supposed to type while wearing shoes on your feet?!
It's from an episode of The Simpsons. Lisa was telling Bart about how the water always spins clockwise in the Southern Hemisphere. So to confirm, Bart spins his globe around and points to Argentina and then "Rand McNally" (Thinking it is a country ) and asks if he's got it right. Lisa then decides to play with Bart by telling him about customs in "Rand McNally."
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Old December 4, 2001, 19:25   #16
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DATarbell, I'm not sure who on this board or elsewhere actually requested that:

- Combat is an over-simplified screw-up that would be a shame even for board games, much less by something handled by a computer. (See CTP2 for a combat system that actually makes sense.)

- We get a horde of workers that make turns take 10 minutes even on automatic and with animations turned off, instead of a clean elegant system of public works.

- You get to click and move units individually, one square at a time, for a whole 50 square march, just to make sure they stay grouped. (Why not let me just move whole stacks WITHOUT going through stupid loops just to maybe get one leader per millenium?)

- Half the tech tree is useless balast. And I mean either is _completely_ useless, or has such lame effects as Laser being needed for a stupid party lounge.

- The tech tree as a whole took a step back from even Civ 2.

- The tech dependencies and unit/improvement requirements became an even more lame and illogical mess. (E.g., requiring natural latex, not even synthetic rubber for making Infantry.)

- The AI is dumber than a brick and the only difficulty increase comes from cheating even more than in Civ 2. (And in fact isn't more difficult at all, once you learn its obvious patterns.)

- The editor is so lame and crippled that it's impossible to make a scenario or even to add a new unit. And there's zero support for scripting or any other real modding capabilities.

- The culture is implemented in a lame half-cooked way, and a 2 pop city can just swallow up 12 mech infantries without any revolt. Or that a 2 pop city can cover a 5 square radius just because it has an old cathedral. (How come US cities don't deffect to Mexico, btw? I'm pretty sure there are some ancient monuments in Mexico that should have generated some mondo culture by now.)

- Colonies are a flippin' waste of time with no resistance or radius, and even having troops stationed there won't prevent the first settler from taking control of it.

And so on, and so forth.

I've checked again some of the wish lists for Civ 3, and I've yet to see any of those wishes. I also notice that the vast majority of what IS on those wish lists was cheerfully ignored. What actually made it into Civ 3 and what didn't seems to have had much more to do with whether they could swipe that code from Alpha Centauri than with whether a lot of fans wanted it or not.

Either way, my take is that there's so much broken with the game, including yes the very design of it, that no patch will make it any better. I mean, yep, it would be _possible_ to fix all that, but that would mean making a whole new game out of it. If it happens, it will probably be sold as Civ 4, now with 2 more minor tweaks since the previous game.
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Old December 4, 2001, 20:10   #17
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Since almost everything you wrote is either wrong, misguided, or irrelevant, and you seem reasonably bright, I'm forced to conclude that you are the Grandmaster of Sarcasm.

Swift, take a hike!
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Old December 4, 2001, 21:32   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Moraelin
- Half the tech tree is useless balast. And I mean either is _completely_ useless, or has such lame effects as Laser being needed for a stupid party lounge.
Yeah they should let us research any technology at any time!

Sometimes you have to research rubbish in order to accidentally discover good stuff, History is littered with this.

Quote:
- Colonies are a flippin' waste of time with no resistance or radius, and even having troops stationed there won't prevent the first settler from taking control of it.
So if I put a tent up on the piece of scrubland behind my house and start growing potatoes any potential future buyer of the land should recognize my right to that piece of land??

Colonies are not town/cities/metropolis's they'r a couple of shacks thrown together to farm a resource. Start giving them borders and rights and you might as well call them a city.

Colonies are best used when the resource is just outside one of your cities (1-2 squares) and within the general area that you consider is your claim (ie you cities and the land between them currently not covered by culture)
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Old December 4, 2001, 22:56   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by Vonotar

So if I put a tent up on the piece of scrubland behind my house and start growing potatoes any potential future buyer of the land should recognize my right to that piece of land??
If 'you' are a country? Yes. The colony is an occupied zone established upon unclaimed land by a government. The colonies in Antarctica shouldn't cease to exist simply because Chile or Argentina decided to build a temple.
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Old December 4, 2001, 23:19   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by CyberShy


these things aren't flawed or bugs.
they're a part of the game. (and they reflect reality)
Hmm, can't be, or the democracy of US would have crumbled by now

No offence meant to any americans... just saying what it would be like if the real world reflects the corruption system in Civ III
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Old December 4, 2001, 23:22   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wrong_shui


Like planes not destroying boats?

Dont tell me, in this "Reality" spearmen fight tanks often, ppl where shoes on there hands and hamburgers eat ppl?
Hahaha.. what was the name of the country that Lisa told Bart? I think it was some globe/map manufacturer.. If forgot what other things happen in the episode anyway

*EDITED*

oops, I missed that one post. So it's Rand Mcnally. And it's coming back to me now.. isn't that the episode where Bart made a collect call to Australia just so he can ask the boy if the water spins the other way, and then got sued. Then some crazy thing happens in Australia, totally making a disgrace and an insult of Australians?

Anyway, about the patch, I guess in theory, you can fix just about anything in a game as long as you're willing to spend the time and resource. But even if you're willing to, the patch might be just as big as the game itself. "Com'on folks, just go down to the stores and buy a copy of our patch, how about that?"

Last edited by mfauzi; December 4, 2001 at 23:31.
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Old December 4, 2001, 23:57   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by CyberShy


these things aren't flawed or bugs.
they're a part of the game. (and they reflect reality)
This of course explains why every L.A., and Seattle are extremely corrupt cities that couldn't produce anything in any amount do to all the officials skimming correct?

What you mean that isn't the way it is in real life? Guess it's not realistic in the later part of the game then.

You can make an argument for design decision, but not for realism.
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Old December 4, 2001, 23:58   #23
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I believe Civ3 is fundamentally flawed. No patch will ever make this the game Firaxis itself claimed it to be. Besides that, the company QA guy believes that bugs in a game make for a strong community, so you have programmers with very little clue how to make the game even close to the hype and a QA department that thinks giving patches is a kind of needless gift.

Add those up.
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Old December 5, 2001, 00:24   #24
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I think so. Civ2 wasn't perfect when it came out and neither was SMAC. The patches released went a long way into making them "perfect" games. Although, no game is. I trust Firaxis to do the right thing. For now....
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Old December 5, 2001, 02:06   #25
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I would have to say that I firmly BELIEVE that Civ3 gold will be *hugely* better than Civ2 gold.
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Old December 5, 2001, 02:06   #26
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And Civ2 gold was ****in great.
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Old December 5, 2001, 02:10   #27
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Actually, if Civ3 makes it all the way a Gold Edition, it might be quite a different game by then and, more than likely, pretty good. Nevermind that the Gold Edition will be what Civ3 more or less should have been from last October, but in this case, corporate greed might actually work in our favor.
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Old December 5, 2001, 02:11   #28
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no, because MP will not be included in a patch
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Old December 5, 2001, 02:24   #29
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No MP in a patch? don't be so sure. If you don't believe me, check out the file 'jackal.txt' and the .jpg file in your root civ3 directory. I think you will be quite interested to read what it says, to say the least.
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Old December 5, 2001, 02:27   #30
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Quote:
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No offence meant to any americans... just saying what it would be like if the real world reflects the corruption system in Civ III
America would be fine...we haven't built our forbidden palace yet.
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