Civilization III v1.16f Additions/Changes/Fixes

[AHO]

And didn't a small English detachment armed with only a joke defeat an entire German battalion?

[Mokael]

Is it just me, or Apolyton community is turning into a bunch of whining a-holes? It's like talking with horde of teenagers ...



Anyhow. Looks like great patch, FIRAXIS! Keep up a good work, and keep 'em comin'!







Mok

[Whitestar718]

Originally posted by Barchan
Perhaps a better question is: Would you pay $50 bucks to beta test the game and get a free copy of the final version?

I hope that is a rhetorical question, because that is exactly what many games are nowadays.

MH

[Ray K]

Originally posted by AHO
And didn't a small English detachment armed with only a joke defeat an entire German battalion?

Yes.

They had different people translate each part of the joke separately, and then had English soldiers who didn't understand German read the joke aloud in the battlefield.

Because this type of attack could be easily transmitted via radio to large civilian populations, it was banned after the war as a weapon of mass destruction. We can only hope that it never gets in the hands of terrorists.

[salkin]

* The missing periods from unit lines on the disembark box fixed.

With attention to detail like this, it is no wonder that the CIV series is a perenial best seller!

[Steve Clark]

Venger (and others), you obviously want a blue firetruck. How do you reconcile with those that want a green firetruck? Do you think it should be possible to have it so that you can have a mostly blue one while others have a mostly green one? In the meantime, there are others making a red firetruck all by themselves, as well as those that are enjoying it with whatever color it comes in.

[Lord of the Isles]

Originally posted by yin26
Yes, but the movie came out when I was a kid. Even by the time I was a kid, I was saying all kinds of amazing quotes that would stand the test of time.

[lines deleted]

When Yoda was casted for the movie, he spent a weekend at my house. His only job was to keep the grill hot and ready for the steaks. He kept complaining that he was too short for the job. I remember then saying my famous words.

Knowing he was a hot actor at the time, I even specifically said: 'Listen little green midget: Use that line in a movie and I'll have your SAG card and that staff (which he uses only as a prop, by the way) shoved between those vulcan ears!" He claimed Spock stole the look from him, at which point I knew what I was dealing with.

Worse than you know Yin. You remember the day when Yoda asked you when you and him were to meet at your house? And you said:

May the 4th, be with you

Well, he stole that line too but misquoted it as usual.



More seriously, while there are a few whiners in these fora whom I cannot stand, just when I get close to including Yin and Venger in that category they always come up with something to remind me that they really do care about the Civ series. Constructive whining, that's what they do.

And Venger, as well as trying WesW's Medieval Pack mod for CtPII, try Hexagonian's Cradle of Civilization mod too (though they are mutually exclusive). Particularly if you like playing early periods in Civ games, it is a great improvment on standard CtPII. Not perfect mind you, but a lot, lot better.

[bahoo]

Originally posted by Steve Clark
Venger (and others), you obviously want a blue firetruck. How do you reconcile with those that want a green firetruck? Do you think it should be possible to have it so that you can have a mostly blue one while others have a mostly green one? In the meantime, there are others making a red firetruck all by themselves, as well as those that are enjoying it with whatever color it comes in.

I don't care what color my fire truck is, as long as it has wheels, a hose, a motor and all other parts that make it work.

And, no, I'm not gonna grovel to and thank firaxis for fixing my fire truck that they sold to me broken, regardless if the "suits" made them do it or not.

[AHO]

That's it exactly, Ray!
Glad to see that not EVERYONE has lost their sense of humor (that's humour, in honour of our British friends and allies).

[woody]

Originally posted by Mokael
Is it just me, or Apolyton community is turning into a bunch of whining a-holes? It's like talking with horde of teenagers ...

Yes, it seems that way. I used to think Usenet was bad, but this board is even worse!

However, the problem seems to be limited to a few very vocal whiners, who have no interest in learning the game, only complaining and trolling. Venger, Yin, Erazor, and a few others should simply go away. If they don't like the game, then stop playing it and return it. I think Yin said he already returned it. Then WHY IS HE STILL POSTING HERE?!? Go away! We don't need to read your childish tandrums.

I think when these people start personally attacking the Firaxis guys that post here, the moderators should ban them. I'd much rather read the posts from Jeff Morris and Dan, than listen to whining from Yin or Venger.

I have no problem with people making constructive criticisms to the developers, but the childish rants I've read are just pathetic. Grow up, guys!

Civ3 isn't perfect. The patch looks promising, but I'll withhold my opinions until I get to try it out. In the meantime, the unpatched game is still very fun to play. I hope this patch isn't the last, but even if it is, it fixes what I consider to be the most serious problems. (Assuming the fixes work, and don't break anything else.)

[art_vandelai]

Originally posted by Howling Chip


General, I read the "elite" comment as if that would pertain to the skill level of the unit. Reg, vet, elite level has no effect on the odds of giving or taking damage to health, only in how many health bars a unit has.

From evidence in my games, i'd say that's not the case. It does seem that a wounded unit is more likely to take further damage than a non-wounded unit. On countless occasions, I've lost fortified high-defense units (like infantry) that were on 1 or 2 hp left to lower attack units (like knights) that had full hp. I'd estimate that about 75 percent of the time, the infantry with 1 hp will be killed without doing any damage to the knight, which in theory should only happen about 21% of the time.

Furthermore, I've found it MUCH easier to score damage against conscript infantry with only 2 hp than against regulars or veterans with 3 or more HP's. It doesn't matter whether I'm attacking with a superior attack unit (like a tank) or an inferior attack unit (like a cavalry). When the first attack scores, it seems to be that much easier for the next attack to go the same way as well.

Anyone else noticed the same results? I realize that the game is designed so that there's no difference in attack/defense based on number of HP, but from repeated gameplay, I sense that this might not be the case.

[yin26]

I think Yin said he already returned it. Then WHY IS HE STILL POSTING HERE?!? Go away! We don't need to read your childish tandrums.

LOL! You new here pal? Boy, you got a long road ahead if you think this is me whining! Oh, this is me being nice. Trust me. Ask around.

[Jaybe]

Originally posted by Venger
Dude, I had 200 workers in my game. It sucked the life force out of me. I had them because the game engine REQUIRES me to cover every square with road and railroad in order to achieve the best results. Don't blame me, blame the person who thought every square inch of land required railroad...

Venger

Venger,
I have generally respected your opinions - But:
Re "game engine" are you referring to Civ3 (or Civ2)?? And just how important is it that you cover every square with rails? And who said you had to "do it NOW?"

I DO blame you for thinking that it is that important. All those potential happy citizens adding to your score each turn -- and not sucking the life force out of you having to be directed as workers!! Geez! Talking about having your priorities screwed!!

BTW, Yin -- same goes for you (as if it matters anymore).

Imagine, fine folks like you allowing the GAME to Abuse YOU with false (I hope) concepts like that.

[Ralf]

Originally posted by Venger
First - are engineers gone from Civ3? I certainly never got to build them, and they helped late game tedium by working twice as fast...

Under demogracy, the speed of your workers increases from 100% to 150% - almost there.

As for railroads boosting everything, I agree - this only leads to more or less uniform & monotonoues looking RR-spiderweb landscapes. RR:s should really only increase shields-outputs, and possibly boost trade, but as an counteracting measure; actually decrease the irrigation food bonus. Non-irrigated tiles with food-outputs would be uneffected, however.

Above would introduce some interesting back-and-forth considerations, regarding RR-building.

[G Spot Tornado]

Do we deserve multiple patches? Why the hell didn´t they finish the game before they released it?

[Pachabel]

The patch looks very good, however, I didn't see anything mentioned regarding the trade bug where if you have a trade agreement with a civ that is wiped out by a third party, you get blamed for defaulting on the trade agreement.

I hope I missed it cause it's a huge bug.

[Jaybe]

Originally posted by Ralf
...
RR:s should really only increase shields-outputs, and possibly boost trade, but as an counteracting measure; actually decrease the irrigation food bonus. Non-irrigated tiles with food-outputs would be uneffected, however.
...

You didn't play Civ2 did you, Ralf? It is quite obvious that Civ2's Refridgeration and Farmland have been streamlined into Railroad usage. Quite elegantly done, BTW.

[Spiffor]

"I want a perfectly balanced game out of the box" (or something like that, Venger said)
I would like you to think only a second : did you already witness such a thing ? Was there any perfectly balanced game out of the box ? I'm not speaking about shoot'em-ups or doom-likes, I'm talking about strategy games, or anything where there are many possible interactions. Even the games from Blizzard, who are very aware of the quality of their products (they never rush anything, and don't hesitate to be several years late to complete a project) are full of patches in order to re-balance the games.

Now, about editing : do you think all the people have the same tastes ? Not at all : Zealot was unhappy to learn the 32 turn cap for research was now 40, and I read others saying the very existence this cap was stupid. You, Venger, whine because you have to build railroads all over the place, whereas I personally like that. You don't like excessive corruption because you have plenty of cities, whereas I have no problem with it (I just won in Regent with 7 cities). I'm not saying there are people who are right, and others who are wrong. I'm just saying that the game experience is different for everyone.
That's why we can use the Editor. You're unhappy with a too high corruption, because you have plenty of cities ? go edit it. I'm unhappy because I think Offshore Platform arrives too late in the game ? I go edit it...

The editor is not something Firaxis made to have the community do its job (well, maybe a little, but not only for that), but to have the players be as happy as possible with the game they enjoy. Since the game is SP at the moment, you can change your rules without worrying if it is a standard or not. You can transform the governments so that workers work much faster. You have the possibility to act against what you dislike, instead of just whining (which doesn't solve anything).
But maybe you don't like being able to act by yourself ?

Well... Sorry for the others, it was directed to Venger, but others whiners (different from citicizers) are concerned also.

[inca911]

Sigh...

All I wanted for Christmas was the ability to move an entire stack of units all at once. I'd have even accepted it if it only worked with Railroads, and even if only the units with the same movement points were selectable at once. Ctrl-Shift-G just isn't enough to reduce the pain of moving units throughout a RR-ed empire.

Corruption reduction/increase really didn't matter to me. Nor did the lameness of coastal fortresses (IMNSHO--to beat a navy, you better have a navy of your own). Air superiority working is a good thing. The 1000000+ gold exploit didn't matter either since I could choose not to use it. Same thing with IFE.

My main desire for the Move Stack command is to save my precious time. Like many other folks, time is certainly my most valuable commodity and spending it to move workers and units around the empire one at a time is agonizing. I purposely do not maintain a fleet of workers simply because it takes too long! Certainly the current limitations of the settler/governer automation would be nice to fix (even more time savings), but worker automation is not really a must-have in my book since I prefer to direct improvements.

So maybe next patch I'll get my wish (perhaps before the end of the year or maybe even by Xmas!)....

[Fromage]

Thanks for the patch. It fixes most the problems that have bothered me. Only problem is that I just won my last game and now I have to wait 3-4 days before I can start a new one with the patch

Couple of suggestions:
- Coastal fortresses are useless. If it's possible, zoc with range 2, would be great. And of course more firepower.

- More barbarians.
* Ancient age, warriors and horsemen
* Middle ages, galleons full of pirates (musketmen)
* Industrial age, hmm, bandits? riflemen perhaps.
* Modern age, drug lords in unexplored jungles with huge infantry armies.

[Harm]

Thanks for that patch guys, national defense was a little weak during the modern era and this will end those issues.

I hope you are able to continue the development of CivIII.

[Zorkk]

well well well.. an interesting read... what started out as a 5 page thread when i started reading, quickly turned into an 11 page thread. Most of it doggie do do from our resident peanut gallery, Yin & Venger. I saw a few good ideas for new changes, and on the whole, i saw A LOT of different people say how much they were enjoying the game.

So Yin & Venger. Are you now trying to tell me, that the whims of a few people MUST dictate how a game is to be played/developed. AFAIK the game is working. It doesn't crash, I can play it on all difficulty levels, and have lots of fun. You two on the other hand seem to NEED to have the game tailored to your specific tastes, so I'm not surprised to see everyone telling you to use the editor. Seems like the smart thing to do to me.

Better yet... use all this passion you have for your crusade to make Civ the game you want it to be, to go out there, learn how to program, and make us the game you want to play. Then we can have some fun yelling/*****ing/whining to you about what a peice of **** you made.

Here's another idea for you 2.. since i'm sure by now most people have you on ignore ( i know you both will be going on my list very very soon) take this crusade of your to where it's going to do the most goood. Mail bomb any and all firaxis email address' you can find, and when they start blocking your email's, then start a normal snail-mail bombing. hell... setup a website to tell us all about your woes and frustration with Civ3 and firaxis (not that it'll get many hits) but if you would only do that, perhaps we could have some peace and quite in here, and stop reading everyone 3 or 4 messages from either of you saying the same stupid things over and over and over and ov.....

Basically, i really really think your barking up the wrong tree. Posting your drivel on here is not going to get anything done, other then get more and more people angry with you, and ignoring you. AND!! from what I can see here, you are in the minority... BY FAR. Doesn't that tell you something? Don't you understand that you are the odd man out? the ONE (and one of very FEW) with a problem? so why must you share your problems with the rest of the world. over and over and over and over and over and over and ov....


Zorkk

Another happy Civver.


hmm.. one more idea for ya... take up warez.... then you won't have any right to complaign, and can leave us all in peace cuz you never paid for the game in the first place.

[Venger]

Originally posted by Skanky Burns
RTFM!!

Do us all a favour and at least UNDERSTAND the game before you complain about it!!

Hey priçk, where in the worker description does it talk about doubling the rate? What page? Oh, its not under the workers section...I see...

After discovering replacable parts, your workers now work twice as fast. Just by discovering that tech. And without you needing to rebuild your entire work-force just to get a speed increase.

So now it takes only three turns of tedium to irrigate rather than six... so go ahead and double the number of micromanagement moves in my previous example. Thanks! That makes my point even more illustrative...

The game works fine for those of us who understand it

Maybe you should moderate your own forum with your insight. Please tell us how it goes not installing the patch, Mr. Works Fine fanboy troll.

Go and actually play it for a while,

I did, until the poor design and lame late game pummelled the joy out of it.

and next time you post here, try to complain about something other than your lack of understanding.

Wow, missed that one point in the manual (seeing as it's not even in the same bloody section as the workers), guess we should all take a rules test before discussing the game before this Class-A priçk participates.

Venger

[CapTVK]

Originally posted by Zorkk

Better yet... use all this passion you have for your crusade to make Civ the game you want it to be, to go out there, learn how to program, and make us the game you want to play. Then we can have some fun yelling/*****ing/whining to you about what a peice of **** you made.

Ehmmmm, Zork? You do know that the preliminary work on creating the Civ3 wishlist was thanks to Yin's efforts as the editor. And even if only 1% of the ideas on that list were used at Firaxis somewhere in that 1% you'll find Yin's effort.

So, in a small way, he tried to make the "make the game we want to play". In that sense he belongs to the 1% of the internet community that actually does something productive online apart from whining or whining about whiners who whine because whiners keep whining.

Personal opinions aside, you should respect those efforts.


P.S

On the subject of making Civ a better game. Anyone interested in helping with Freeciv?

Basically, i really really think your barking up the wrong tree. Posting your drivel on here is not going to get anything done, other then get more and more people angry with you, and ignoring you. AND!! from what I can see here, you are in the minority... BY FAR. Doesn't that tell you something? Don't you understand that you are the odd man out? the ONE (and one of very FEW) with a problem? so why must you share your problems with the rest of the world. over and over and over and over and over and over and ov....


Zorkk

Another happy Civver.

IMHO 99% of everything posted on the forums is drivel. But it can be very entertaining drivel!

Yin26's probably one of the biggest fans of the Civ line, and also one who isn't afraid to voice his opinions on the game (with good wit I might add ).

hmm.. one more idea for ya... take up warez.... then you won't have any right to complaign, and can leave us all in peace cuz you never paid for the game in the first place.

I'm not sure if advocating wares is the best way to help Civ3.

[Zen]

anyways,

the stuff in the patch sounds better than nothing. Although I am a big editor fan and am disappointed that it may take an expansion to give us proper editing tools, but I am willing to wait if it is well done.

But, maybe some people should hold off on their condemnation of the patch until after it is released. But still, a patch within a little more than a month is not too shabby.

so... work hard my Firaxian friends.
: )

-Zen

[Venger]

Originally posted by Libertarian

Well, that explains a great deal. About you.

When I think of Dan or Soren, alone at their desk at 4:00 AM, bleary-eyed,

Oh PLEASE! Are you really that lame?

but plugging along anyway so they can try their best to meet unreasonable dealines for unreasonable deadbeats...

Oh the humanity!! They have made the ultimate sacrifice! They threw themselves on a proverbial grenade for us! They are doing this for all of us for free, after all, we downloaded the game for free right, and we should be groveling like a starving dog for whatever chum they toss down from the table.

And then when I think about self-righteous, sanctimonious puff-bags like you and Yen (and your spawn, ProblematicDog)...

Obsess much?

It is to laugh. Ha!

The only funny thing is the obsequious bootlicking shilling you do for this company - it's a business, and we are consumers, and we make no apologies for the transaction. They didn't give you a kidney, you histrionic simpleton.

Venger

[HaVoC]

I'm somewhat concerned about the "It's now easier to acquire cities by cultural influence" change in the patch.

Reason;

I was at war with the russians, after a couple dozen turns, I was deep in enemy territorry and had conquered 4 cities along the way. Then I stood before Moscow, after a hard fight, I finally conquered it. Now, one turn after this conquest, and one turn after having moved 4 catapults, 2 knights, 2 pikemen, 2 longbowmen and a swordman into the city, my secretary of defense guy tells me that the peple of Moscow have revolted and decided to join the Russians cause they adore their culture or something. Great. I've just spent 6 turns trying to conquer this stupid city, have moved a whole batallion of my best armies into it after a darn hard fight, and now everything (including the 11 units) is lost, because the people of Moscow decided they'd rather stay with Russia.

Apart from everything else, it's not very logical if 11 citizens can just overpower 11 military units and start a revolt.

Something has to be done about this

[Venger]

Originally posted by Jaybe

Venger,
I have generally respected your opinions - But:
Re "game engine" are you referring to Civ3 (or Civ2)?? And just how important is it that you cover every square with rails? And who said you had to "do it NOW?"

I DO blame you for thinking that it is that important. All those potential happy citizens adding to your score each turn -- and not sucking the life force out of you having to be directed as workers!! Geez! Talking about having your priorities screwed!!

In order to optimize your tile production, you HAVE to railroad them all. Simple as that. A city that doesn't is inferior to a city that does, in population, production, and trade. Are you not going to RR them all? The AI will.

Venger

[Venger]

Originally posted by CapTVK

Ehmmmm, Zork? You do know that the preliminary work on creating the Civ3 wishlist was thanks to Yin's efforts as the editor. And even if only 1% of the ideas on that list were used at Firaxis somewhere in that 1% you'll find Yin's effort.

Yin26's probably one of the biggest fans of the Civ line, and also one who isn't afraid to voice his opinions on the game (with good wit I might add ).

Don't bother Cap, the only contribution the fanboys that have hit this thread like flys on dung appreciate is hyperbolic fawning. Don't like something in the game? Must be you, not the game. Because your dislike of something is less valid than their like of it...

Venger

[AustralianJeremy]

Originally posted by Binni
Kokuei, thanks

Let me clarify one thing though. I'm not talking about the default setting on laptops. Many laptops just can't have higher resolutions than 800x600 and therefore can't do anything about this.

Civ 3 is the perfect game to play on laptops so I'm sure this was a big dissapointment to many people because I know at least 3 or 4 personally who were saddened by this

I agree with you. It's actually like when SMAC wouldn't allow you to use 640x480. Frankly, with games like SMAC and Civ3 in which it would be EASY to support lower resolutions (you'd just see less terrain at once) - I can't believe that Firaxis would just BLOCK a large chunk of users out.

Yes, I know newer laptops might allow 1024x768 - but if you've got a laptop that meets all Civ3's specs (or SMACs) except screen resolution, and you're well aware that it should be easy to simply show less of the map on the screen at a lower res, then you're going to be pretty disappointed. And as far as Firaxis/IG are concerned - they're going to lose sales where it would be easy to make them.

Seriously - programmers? How hard should it be to enable Civ3 to run in 600x800? (setting the ini file to the desktop res doesn't work).