Civilization III v1.16f Additions/Changes/Fixes

[Frito]

Originally posted by Venger
The editor is supposed to CUSTOMIZE the game, not FIX it.

So what exactly are we supposed to fix with the editor thats broken(and I mean really broke, not something you don't agree with ).

[Skanky Burns]

Originally posted by rid102
It's a trick!

We know you're just after RoP!

And you fell for it!!!!

Now feel the wrath of my mighty Warriors!!!!



Oh, and to keep this post on-topic:
[insert random flame here]

[Venger]

Originally posted by Ozymandous

No, I'd say the crime was to automatically blast the person who told you it ws in the manual.

Oh my GOD that's total crap. Told me it was in the manual? No, he said RTFM in big ass words with his little smiley faces and procedeed to rip me because I didn't know that workers work faster after replaceable parts (which isn't discussed anywhere in the workers section of the manual).

If you had stopped, looked through the whole manual and posted something like "Oops, you're right, I had'nt looked well enough. " people probably would have laughed with you. Instead you posted yet more venom because you had felt embarrassed that you missed something to begin with and attacked the person offering help.

Sigh...whatever dude, I asked the question for a reason - are engineers gone from Civ3? I wasn't embarrassed by the answer, I was insulted by Skanky for "not reading the manual, RTFM, blah blah blah. Screw it, you are clearly only interested in following one side, and it shows.

So.. Even though the game had a different tech tree than before you didn't think to look to see what had changed?

No, I didn't go through the whole tech tree and memorize ever thing every new tech did, or look in the tech tree for special unit powers because they apparently aren't important enought to be in the manual section devoted to that unit.

If even one person looked at the tech tree or read the manual enough to find the differences (even to simply look at the "what's different from Civ2 chapter") then apparently it was not "non-native" for everyone, just those who didn't want to apply the effort.

Take your diatribe home, it's tiresome.

It doesn't make it slower, it makes it faster so you need LESS people working for you. When you get RP is an excellent time to send those long-labouring workers off to get some rest in a nice city (add to it's population).

Jesus FOLLOW THE POINT. I said it takes longer because MY EXAMPLE was with units after replaceable parts, hence before that, the example would take longer. GET IT NOW?

Most invading armies I have heard of in history had to station large numbers of troops in conquered cities to keep the city in their hands. This doesn't seem too outlandish to me.

Stationing 20 units in a city that it only took 4 to win, then having that city defect due to "culture" is okay to you? Welcome to gameplay giveup playhouse...

Maybe they didn't expect people to be using huge groups of units because in their testing they never had huge empires due to corruption? Who knows. I believe they have taken the idea down for (hopeful) futuring patching.

That's why you should TEST THE GAME. See, testing is a crucial part of "beta testing". They seem to only have the beta part down.

And then you blast and launch personal attacks against ANYONE who offers a way to bypass the issues you're having by using the editor or anyone who offers a counter point of why what you suggest might not be in the best interst of the game overall. That's the problem.

Oh it is not, you are making these grandiose charges with no quoted or actual information, just your grandeuristic flights of fancy that have no basis in any thread.

Hmm, but amusing that RTFM was true and pertinent in this case.

Oh, I see - this line "Are engineers out of the game?" deserves this line : RTFM STUPID SMILEY FACE BLAH BLAH BLAH.

Once again, your expectations of behavioral modality are reserved for only one side, who can choose when and where to be ad hominem or attack...

Venger

[Bane Star]

Originally posted
* Shield bonus from clearing forest can only be received once per game

does this mean that only the first forest will yield shields? or only once per forest and planted forests will not yield shields?

Ohhh man, I thought had difficulty from playing before, Sometimes due to corruption (which thankfully is fixed slightly) my cities have only 1 shield a turn and only due to 3 workers nearby can I grow/plant a forest, then chop them down for enough shields to build a courthouse, otherwise its 80turns before I can build said courthouse, and by then I've probably lost siad city or lost the game due to the lack of productive cities.

Pahhh!

[Venger]

Originally posted by MarkG
Venger, the next time you bypass the swearing filter, you'll be in Mingapulco for a week

I expect every bypass to generate this warning then.

btw, puting 20 units in a city to keep it
1) i dont think more units mace a difference beyond the first 3-5

You must garrison one more than the city size, size 22 city requires 23 units (not including bombard units). It's entirely possible to put 20 units, 15 artillery, 5 battleships, 10 bombers, and 10 fighters in a size 22 city and lose the city to "culture". That's just ridiculous.

2) there are more ways to to keep a city from revolting. perhaps you shhould be reading the strategy forum more....

I have read some of them, they are not anything that hasn't been tried. Oh sure, I can starve them or raze the city, but that's dull, fruitless, and downright goofy.

Venger

[sophist]

Originally posted by Venger

Stationing 20 units in a city that it only took 4 to win, then having that city defect due to "culture" is okay to you? Welcome to gameplay giveup playhouse...

Acquisition is always cheaper than maintenance. At least in the real world. Plus it works for gameplay here. I mean, I guess maybe it was fun for some people in civ2 to build up slowly then blitz the whole world in just a few turns. But that got a bit silly, doncha think? This is more realistic and makes for a more balanced game. In some cases that leads to extreme results, but there are ways around it. Like bombing the city down to a tiny population. Really, now, do you think that if the Soviets had walked into New York City or Los Angeles they could have just held it?

[rid102]

I really wish the diplomacy was slightly different.

Especially on Apolyton...

[eRAZOR]

Originally posted by rid102


Especially on Apolyton...

ROFL

[Barnacle Bill]

Originally posted by Skanky Burns


Hows this for an unlucky streak?
I attacked a Greek city defended by a Hoplite (def 3), the city size was below 6 so they didnt get any bonuses from that. I had an army of pure swordsmen (attack 3, hitpoints 12). My brave army almost chipped the paint on the hoplites shield but didnt do any damage as such. Thus ended my army.

This leads neatly into a proposal for the combat system that I've been meaning to make. Probably too late, but here goes...

In real life, "do or die" is exceptionally rare. People getting whupped retreat if they can. Attackers getting creamed break off the attack. So...

Retreat by defenders should occur even if the attacker & defender are the same speed, not just if the defender is faster.

Attackers should break off the attack upon reaching 1 HP, unless the defender dies/retreats in the same round.

[SubLimey]

Originally posted by Dan Magaha FIRAXIS


Regarding #3, you can already do all of this within the editor.

Dan

I've found that using the editor to customise the civ colour can cause the game to crash. If you choose a colour other that the 17 used already (I tried to change the French to a blue shade #20 as you scroll down) the game crashes at startup. I thought it might be conflicting with other colours, so I tried switching to more distinct shdes w/ no luck. Can anyone shed light on this? Am I doing something wrong, need to change a setting, or is it a bug? If it's a bug is there a fix in the patch (or being worked on)? This could cause problems for the extra civs pack, maybe?

[player1]

Originally posted by player1
One question for FIRAXIS team
(SOREN or DAN please read & comment this)

It is regarding obsolete units. I think there are some design problems.
Since unit obsolence is tied to to trier upgradeability, some strange things happend in game.

For exampe Swordsmen & Longbowmen never dissaper, because they are not upgadeable, and thus not OBSOLETE.
Same thing happens to those Friagtes & Ironclads.

While Swordmen solution can be done by making them upgadeable to Riflemen (I hope in next patch), upgarding Frigate seems little unrealistic.

So if you can make unit obsolence not depended from upgadebility, then from ability to build new unit (for ex: I can build destroyers so my Ironclads are obsolete, but I can't upgarde tyhose Ironclads).

Also some similar problems happen when you have some special units.
Like:
-you can build Fighters with Americans, althought you can also build F-15
-you can build Pikemen with French, althought you can also build Mutketeers
-you can't upgrade Pikemen to Riflemen, nor to Musketemen (if not in Musketeers)

If Kinght does not have ZOC & Horsemen has, I think someone would like to build Horsemen and make ZOC, although he discovered Chivarly.
But, its not alowed, because of this upgardeability system, to keep building Horsemen.

Some other things:
I think that Musketmen are much cost uneffective compared to Pikemen.
I mean for price of 2 Pikemen you build one Musketmen.
I think this can be solved by:
-decreasing cost of musketmen (or maybe also a rilfemen?)
-or by giving it an attack of 3

Tanks & Mech. Inf are not Wheeled. This is supposed to be BUG or not.
Having them wheeled would make them more strategicily interesting.

One a little not importand thing.
Can you make Riflemen Saltpeter dependent.
And after you dicover Industalisation them make them (and Cavalry also) non dependent.

I ask this because some starge things are happening in modern time:
Enemy in modern time has only a Horse resouce:
So he can only build Riflemen (Swor. & Long. also) and Kinght. A little starge combination. SO making Saltpeter Indusrialistion needed, this strage thing could be removed from game.

I could call this resource obsolence.

Also, is is possibile to do Hotseat MP in patch (second or third)?
You did it in SMAC. Activision did it in CTP.


I hope you'll resolve some of this things in next patch.
It would matter me a lot if someone from Firaxis replays to this post, so I now I didn't write for nothibng, and that sombody from Firaxis heard me.

At least: "We well look at that matter"


P.S.
to other Civers:
Why don't you make a new thread about is patch enough & is civ a good game now. I think this thread is just not appropritate for some of the comments written here.

to Markos: Why not make thread called "Suggestion for Firaxis", limited to one post per user with ability to edit. That way we would have some type of wish-list wich Firaxis would look at.

Uhh...
Why have I posted this on this thread.
Nobody would read it anyway.
Probably because of flame war of two groups here.

P.S.
Question to Markos:
Is it possibile to ban some people from posting at certain threads?

[Wolfar]

Originally posted by Venger


Oh my GOD that's total crap. Told me it was in the manual? No, he said RTFM in big ass words with his little smiley faces and procedeed to rip me because I didn't know that workers work faster after replaceable parts (which isn't discussed anywhere in the workers section of the manual).

Venger

AND you wonder why everyone is on a WE HATE Venger roll? What a TROLL!

Salute to everyone else!

Wolfar

[Dan Magaha FIRAXIS]

Originally posted by Cavalier_13


It's a vicious circle....each side feeds upon the other, comsuming every bit of material, much like a nuclear explosion, and in the end, it's all for naught as both sides forget the real issues.

Sad really.

Cavalier

Strange game.

The only winning move is not to play.

[Dan Magaha FIRAXIS]

Originally posted by SubLimey


I've found that using the editor to customise the civ colour can cause the game to crash. If you choose a colour other that the 17 used already (I tried to change the French to a blue shade #20 as you scroll down) the game crashes at startup. I thought it might be conflicting with other colours, so I tried switching to more distinct shdes w/ no luck. Can anyone shed light on this? Am I doing something wrong, need to change a setting, or is it a bug? If it's a bug is there a fix in the patch (or being worked on)? This could cause problems for the extra civs pack, maybe?

Limey,

This one is in the bug database and as soon as we figure out what's causing it and any workaround, I'll let you know. The obvious (but not very helpful) answer at this point is that the game probably doesn't cope well with the non-default colors, but I don't know why that would be the case.

Dan

[player1]

It this only me or some conspiracy.

Firt time when I posted my complains for future patches about unit obsolence, Dan responed to someone else.

Now, when I replied to myself complaining that nobody read what I am posting, Dan replay again, to sombody else.

Dan, is that conspiracy, or I am just paranoid.

[Primarch]

When will the patch be out? Today?

[rid102]

Strange game.

The only winning move is not to play.

Ah! Such a stunning simple conclusion after so many pages of drivel, no wonder it elluded us all...

The boards would be a bit quiet though

We shall spare you from the wrath of our mighty armies in exchange for the secret of Mapmaking!

[rid102]

Dan, is that conspiracy, or I am just paranoid.

You're paranoid.

We demand you pay 100 gold in tribute!

[Dan Magaha FIRAXIS]

Originally posted by player1
It this only me or some conspiracy.

Firt time when I posted my complains for future patches about unit obsolence, Dan responed to someone else.

Now, when I replied to myself complaining that nobody read what I am posting, Dan replay again, to sombody else.

Dan, is that conspiracy, or I am just paranoid.

If I *really* wanted to make you paranoid, I could have replied to the thread right after yours

I saw your post on unit obsolesensce but that's WAY out of my league in terms of stuff I can answer. I have *no* idea quite honestly...


Dan

[Barchan]

Originally posted by Dan Magaha FIRAXIS


Strange game.

The only winning move is not to play.

: pops up cautiously from behind barricade :

Say, that's a quote from a movie, isn't it? What was the name of that movie, anyway, with the kids, the computer, the nuclear war and the tic-tac-toe, silly thing, couldn't figure it all out! M'hey!

And, no, I don't think it was "Flamewars"....

: ducks back down to avoid heavy crossfire :

[rid102]

Wasn't it "Wargames"?

: ducks back down to avoid heavy crossfire :

And stay down!

[LordLynch64]

Venger your wrong

[Hoek]

Dan: out of curiosity, are you a programmer or a PR guy or a graphics guy or...what? are there questions we should direct more towards the civ3 website than we should direct to you?

[Barchan]

Originally posted by rid102
: Hurls spurious insult that falls just slightly short of the mark :

Wasn't it "Wargames"?


And stay down!

: remains firmly entrecnhed behind barricade :

Sir, yes, Sir! (btw, I guess angled brackets don't display the intended text, eh?)

[rid102]

Venger your wrong

16 pages and the answer was staring us all in the fact all along... how foolish we've all been!

I can see how Venger being in possession of wrong as you believe, necessarily denies everyone else from having wrong too, however it does not preclude the possession of right by all others...

Shocking, nonetheless.

We would like to exchange World Maps.

[Jaybe]

Originally posted by player1
(re: unit upgrades)

It has seemed to me that the construction menu keeps old units available in case you suddenly lack the Strategic Resources required to build newer units, or to give you the option to build something really cheap.

If it isn't for these reasons (no, I have not STUDIED the issue), then I would have to agree there is a design change called for.

[Dan Magaha FIRAXIS]

Originally posted by Hoek
Dan: out of curiosity, are you a programmer or a PR guy or a graphics guy or...what? are there questions we should direct more towards the civ3 website than we should direct to you?

Officially my current role is as a webmaster, and my job is primarily to keep Civ3.com and Firaxis.com updated, but I also pitch in on as many other things as I can. Sometimes that means doing graphics work in Photoshop (nobody will ever mistake me for an artist, though ), sometimes I write documents or content for the sites (I wrote civ3edit.hlp), sometimes I dabble in programming (usually VB, I've pretty much forgotten most of the C I learned in undergrad).. a little bit of everything.

I also try to answer as much of the mountains of email that come in every day as possible, and participate on fansites when time permits.

My hobbies are stamp collecting, impersonating Wayne Newton, and badminton, and I enjoy long walks on ... ... uhhh sorry, I mean yeah, so that's what I do around here...





Dan

[rid102]

My hobbies are stamp collecting, impersonating Wayne Newton, and badminton, and I enjoy long walks on ... ... uhhh sorry, I mean yeah, so that's what I do around here...

What do you think this place is, a personals site?

"WLTM short monitor-radiation-wiltered female with no social life and an unhealthy obsession with the PRNG statistics."



Oh sorry... errr... that was me.

[Bubba_B]

16 Pages!!!! It's like reading the manual again.

Oh well thought I'd post too, since everyone eles did.

[JC Woodman]

Originally posted by Don K Hotay
give a me the patch....give it to me....come on, don't fool around. Why are you messing with me? Come on, give it to me.....give it to me....give it or I'll a tell your mama!

Does anyone know when the patch is available