Conquering cities in the "right" order

9 ECAC Titles · December 5, 2001, 20:46

In Civ II, life was simple: make friends, trade maps, find the easiest route to the capital, and then when war breaks out just march straight across his empire to his capital and decimate it. He goes into anarchy for a bit while he relocates the capital, and in the meantime you just bounce around bribing away all his cities (after first grabbing one tech from each). Go into the new capital last and he's dead.

In Civ III, this SO does not work, because (1) his capital relocates immediately and (2) within about 3 turns, no matter what you occupy his capital with or what you rush build, if he's even close to your culture level his cap will revolt back to him.

So, what I do now is an even front across his empire, chewing up cities with assaults, allowing a few stragglers to flip back behind my lines knowing that I can either take them later or convert them after he has been all but obliterated. This is much more elegant than the Civ II way, since the territory advance is much more realistic, but it is truly necessary? Must I simply move like a shadow across his empire, or has anybody had luck with a deep spear thrust through several cities and into his core?

David Weldon · December 5, 2001, 21:06

Ooo, ooo, I have, I have!

I make tremendous use of strategic strikes against the heart of the Great Satan! (read: all other civs)

The thing to remember is that the goal is not total conquest of the other civ. The goal is to hamstring the other civ so that your ultimate victory is assured. I often charge in and raze about 3 old cities (anything with a wonder, palace, strategic resource, or large population) and then sue for peace, pick up a tech or two, and move my assault force on to the next civ. I always raze such cities and leave him with a huge whole in his production/science/growth machine.

I can do this with only 8-10 artillery, 3-4 Mech. Infantry, and 5-6 Cavalry or Tanks (depending on availability). With a fully connected rail system my homeland defense can be accomplished with a force of similar size, and I end up accomplishing amazing military feats with a military 1/10th the size of the AI's military.

I find small strikes like these much more fun because they give me something to acomplish without having to manage hundreds of units.

vmxa1 · December 5, 2001, 23:17

That is the way I like to do it as well. Get a force of Mech/tanks/art and raze some cities. Here and there I will wreck some mines and roads to hurt them and reduce the speed of reinforcements. As you say this cost them production and research, plus infrastructe and workers. Once you get to the all land is covered stage, you must take down some cities and they are not worth holding due to corruption, except for staging points or special patches of lux or missing resource. As I get deeper into their terrain I will hold one city to recover damaged units. After the battle has moved on you can either sell it or keep it. You can leave it undefended if you want as it has nothing in it.

Dis · December 5, 2001, 23:30

take his capitol city and/or a city with wonders. The culture hit will f*ck him/her up bad. Not as likely to lose cities back to the enemy.

eMarkM · December 6, 2001, 00:54

These are all fine strategies, but I would add that however you strike to concentrate first on cities with resources if at all possible. Take out strat resources for the obvious reasons. Really concentrate on the various "luxury fields" that crop up. Take over their field of spices or whatever and it puts a serious crimp in their income stream as well as adding to yours.

I usually only raze if their culture is higher than mine. Real tough to keep cities then. I usually keep even if it might be a "one shield wonder" due to corruption. Good for later Commie pop rushing, drafting citizens, specialists, total score. Anyway, whenever you leave open space someone's rushing a settler there, you can be sure of that. Might as well keep it for my empire.

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Capt Dizle · December 6, 2001, 01:04

What I have been doing lately is sending a great leader with my invasion force and building the forbidden palace in the enemy capital. It has yet to revert back.

Gives me a heck of opportunity to build an infrastructure back too.

Capt Dizle · December 6, 2001, 01:11

A number of tricks to take out the AI, all posted many times.

1. ROP...just position your troops and sneak attack. I hope they patch this out.

2. Drop a bunch of mech infantry on railroaded mountain. AI will deplete itself in futile attacks. (havent tried this but it have been reported by a lot of people.

3. Offload a settler. The AI will demand withdrawal. When you get the auto move option use it, the settler will not move. Next turn you can build a city there on the coast (works inside the AI's borders, another thing I would like patched out) and then you move in your ships/transports. Troops landing on a beachead can't move that turn, but you can offload from the transports and get to move right away.

This is something I think they will patch out also.

Capt Dizle · December 6, 2001, 01:15

It finally hit me that naval power is truely useful in Civ3. Due to the inability of using the enemy road network you should indeed use the relative speed of ships to work the enemy coastal cities. No need to slog through the jungle, bypass it.

Hit em where they aint. Superior attitude and superior mobility.

Dis · December 6, 2001, 01:15

2) does work but not all the time. The ai isn't quite as bad as civ2. But if that mountain is close to their city they are trying to defend yes they will throw themselves at it. But I seen when they go around my defense into weaker defended areas. And they will always go after workers over military units. They make good bait

. bait and hook works all the time. I use jag warriors send them deep in the ai's empire and I get many units to break off their approach to my cities this way.

Capt Dizle · December 6, 2001, 01:19

Ship chaining is still available which allows you to move troops huge distances.

vmxa1 · December 6, 2001, 02:24

We are talking about late game, why do I want a one shield city? At this point it is just something to do till you win by space/dom/culture or whatever you are after. Since you already have a full fledge empire at this time and a battle group on the move another city is of no value unless as mentioned it has A) wonders B) staging/heal values. I am not concerned about reverting as I am burning it down. If it is one that meets A or B it won't revert as they will have all access cut off, no roads connecting, dam little army and a culture taking a nose dive. I put citizens on entertainment until only contented ones remain and resisters. Starve them down if they can not be happy.

Badtz Maru · December 6, 2001, 02:53

Instead of razing the cities that you don't want for yourself, sell them to other civilizations. If you raze them, the AI will just resettle it and though it will take a while to build it back up (and they will never have whatever wonders they lost) it is probably a good city location and close to their capital. Sell the newly captured city to a friendly nation on the other side of the world and he gains an unproductive city and your enemy has to deal with a new neighbor.

vmxa1 · December 6, 2001, 04:38

This is the end game, I am trying to eliminate everyone that I can. I have no need for more money by the time I have modern armour. They will be hard pressed to get a settler past me, but if they do I will smash the city with one tank (unless they send some troops, in that case it is worth going back with my troops). At this point I have already taken the lead in score and I just want to keep busy. If this was an earlier time, then I would be interested in doing something useful with it (sell or keep). The other thing is that often the goofy MPP's have gotten everyone in the war. I say goofy as it is common for civs to enter so many MPP's that any one does anything and most are in the fight. They will sign up with some one that I am at war with right after losing a war with me, thereby going right back to war with me? Now if I knew that having extra cities under my control is going to add to my score, I would do it differently. The patch may make it me change if the corruption is a lot less. Although I prefer to be at war, rather than just watch the grass grow.

Kinjiru · December 6, 2001, 10:31

I would say that the behaviour of the AI with regard to getting into many MPPs is not goofy, but quite realistic.

When Nationalism first becomes available, you see all kinds of MPPs signed much like in the early 20th century. And just as happened in RL, a world war breaks out. After that inital conflagration dies out, the AI is not as eager to join into MPPs.

In fact, the only time I have seen an AI sign a dangerous MPP (after the initial World War) is what I would call bandwaggoning in RL, i.e. join up with the big dog so he doesn't gobble you up; or balancing, three little pups forming a gang to keep the big dog at bay.

Now, back to the original point of the thread...
Charge into the heartland with enough units to take the capital and two other cities. Take all three, move your units out of each, give (or sell) the cities to someone with low culture and far borders, sue for peace. On the next few turns the cities will revert to their former rulers and you can retake them. Repeat as necessary.

Bad Ax · December 6, 2001, 11:15

My usual strategy arises from my tendency to play archipelago maps. Although the terrain generator is imperfect in this regard, it's frequently the case that the enemy's capital lies close to the sea. This enables a strategy specifically designed to wreak havoc on the enemy in the center of his territroy while claiming resource-rich cities on the fringe.

Use a two-party approach in your attack. Simultaneously land a strong attack force near the cities you want to claim first, and a very strong attack force near the capital. This draws the enemy back towards their capital, weakening the perimeter. In your first assault, raze the capital and conquer your resource city. You will usually gain extra bombardment units from your victory at the capital. The next turn, raze the new capital, which in most instances will be an adjacent city. Meanwhile, use leaders or strong armies to quell resistance and perform culture-rush in your new acquisitions. Remember, the more territory that lies inside your new borders, the more difficult it is for the enemy to mount an effective counterstrike.

Once you've established a beachhead about 3-4 cities large near the resources you wanted, dig in with your acquisition force and turn your razing force towards the beachhead, razing or capturing the cities in between, depending on city size and proximity to whatever capital the enemy managed to acquire. Heal up your razing force in rush-built barracks at the beachhead, then send them out to consolidate your holdings.

This usually works out pretty well for me: the AI seems to have some trouble figuring out how to deal with the dual invasion.

Phalanx2000 · December 7, 2001, 12:43

This is true.

I created a 3 pronger and attacked the French. 1 landed near the capitol, while the other 2 went to work on the opposite end of the continent.

The french came after my units that I'd parked near their capitol.

Once I realized it, I just set about pillaging everything near the capitol and let them attack me, while my other two forces ran unabated. I had the whole continent within 15 turns and never encountered a city that had more than 2 defenders in it.

It is a central strat of mine now; I will employ it everywhere.