New tech concept

Venger · May 14, 2000, 18:07

In addition to the normal tech tree, which allows new units and new advances, I'd like to see enabling techs dispersed throughout the tree.

Like what you ask? Well, like...

Radar.

Radar can be researched as a tech. When it is discovered, air units in that Civ gain +1 on attack and defense, and maybe then get 2 space visibility.

Sonar.

You guessed it, sea units can now spot submerged subs. All units in said Civ can attack subs, and the sub gains 2 space visibility.

Currently, the only enabling tech I can think of in Civ2 is Nuclear Power, which doesn't do much besides give +1 on sea movement. Not a whole lot, but perfect as an enabling tech.

The nice thing about these techs is they are easy to add and don't require fancy graphics or other changes. They can really fill out a tech tree and make for a really robust research race.

AND...they avoid unit hell, witness SMAC. Who wants to worry about "Oh, my Silksteel Plasma Missile Speeder doesn't have ECM, so I have to now obsolete a unit and upgrade all my old units...". The enabling tech simply gives a slight boost to existing units, giving the player an advantage for his research without the administrative overhead of worrying about obsolete units.

So...what do you think?

Venger

May 14, 2000, 18:13

I like this idea a lot. Enabling techs are a great idea, especially so you don't have to keep upgrading units. But Sonar and Radar - shouldn't they only apply to certain units? If you have a Galleon when you discover sonar (I know that's silly, but ya never know) would it recieve the bonus?

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~~~I am who I am, who I am - but who am I?~~~

Venger · May 14, 2000, 18:33

quote:

Originally posted by OrangeSfwr on 05-14-2000 06:13 PM
I like this idea a lot. Enabling techs are a great idea, especially so you don't have to keep upgrading units.

Thanks, the idea can even be more than military. For example, agriculture could make irrigation take 1/2 time, etc. I like discovering brand new units, but you can really fill the game out by simply empowering existing units with subtle changes.

quote:

But Sonar and Radar - shouldn't they only apply to certain units? If you have a Galleon when you discover sonar (I know that's silly, but ya never know) would it recieve the bonus?

Excellent point. I have a hard time seeing a Saleucian oarsman detecting a LA-class nuclear fast attack sub and ordering "row MUCH faster"...

Maybe the flag applies to the era, i.e. modern era sea units, as opposed to all others?

Venger

beyowulf · May 16, 2000, 22:05

I never played Civ2, so I don't know whether this was implemented in it. So how about a tech called Sanitation. With maybe an underground sewer, city improvement being able to be made. Affects might be, protection against disease, and maybe more happiness in the city.

A prerequisite of Sanitation might be Medecine.

May 17, 2000, 15:55

If you hadn't put anything in there about not playing Civ 2 I would've laughed at you for suggesting something that is already in Civ 2.

Yes - Sanitation allows Sewer System to be produced which does something to your disease rate and also allows cities to expand beyond size 12. It's prereq is Medicine.

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~~~I am who I am, who I am - but who am I?~~~

tobyr · May 17, 2000, 17:00

In the ToT four-map games, their is another way to have an enabling technology -- receiving an advance can enable one or more units to improve their transport abilities between maps, which you can "give" in an event.

Similarly, you can "take" transport ability away from opponents. You might remove all native tranpsort ability of many units (that can only be created by tribes X and Y) if tribe Z makes some advance, such as an impenetrable shield.

You could also tie the creation of units to some advance. For example, you could create one settler that requires support every turn (could be QUITE a nuisance) until a tribe discovers birth control.

- toby

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criticalpaths@mindspring.com

Christantine · May 17, 2000, 21:43

How about cement? Maybe this could make City Walls 50% more effective. And asphalt. Maybe this could make roads take away only 1/6 of your movement points away.

Just wipping down these ideas before I go to bed.

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I came, I saw, I conquered...my allies!!

ember · May 18, 2000, 09:50

Stuff like, having armour units get a combat bonus with computers.
Roads get better with superhighways.
The would be a lot of bonuses for computers, because they represent becoming a modern 2000 era instead of 1940 era civ.

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"Any technology, sufficiently advanced,
is indistinguishable from magic"
-Arthur C. Clark

Par4 · May 18, 2000, 22:40

Hydroponics
+2 food per square or something could make desert civs be able to make alot of food so they can have all science cities and stuff.

Agricultural genetics
+2 food per square in range of city with lab or something helps science cities.

Robotic Manufacturing
Important for computer production and advanced unit production. Needs to be seperate from robotics. Could give construction of units bonus.

Microprocessor
This is change to the computer. Gives big research bonus, access to computer for corporation, unit upgrades, happiness with computers in population. Plus what it gives in Civ2.

Internet
World Wide Web could be a wonder. Increases overall population intelligence and happiness and individuality.

These would be small techs that only take a turn or 2 to complete. Except for Microprocessor.

Edit: I like the Sonar idea a lot. Maybe a silent sub upgrade could come with stealth or something. Radar good idea too needed for AEGIS and cruise missiles and well most everything hehe.
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Your game will get worse
[This message has been edited by Par4 (edited May 18, 2000).]

UltraSonix · May 23, 2000, 09:11

Tis thread contains some excellent ideas. Sometimes suggestions made in other threads don't seems to fit into the spirit of Civ, but this concept goes very well.

And to solve the problem of the sonar-equipped galleon, flags in the text file could be used, such as in rules.txt for Civ2 or alphax.txt for SMAC. So essentially the rules file would specifiy whether a unit should get a sonar upgrade or some other upgrade when it becomes available.

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No, in Australia we don't live with kangaroos and koalas in our backyards...

MidKnight Lament · May 23, 2000, 19:52

quote:

Originally posted by UltraSonix on 05-23-2000 09:11 AM
No, in Australia we don't live with kangaroos and koalas in our backyards...

Hey, don't tell them that!

Don't listen to him, guys. The fact is, I used to ride to school on the back of a kangaroo. Oh, in it's pouch too.

(You don't know how many non-Australians, particularly Americans, will believe that. Not just believe it, but actually ask if we do. Sheesh!)

- MKL
[This message has been edited by MidKnight Lament (edited May 23, 2000).]

Par4 · May 23, 2000, 20:04

Don't kangaroos have nasty mucous(sp) in there pouches, they did in the simpsons

------------------
I use this email
(stupid cant use hotmail)
gamma_par4@hotmail.com
Don't ask for golf tips
Your game will get worse

MidKnight Lament · May 23, 2000, 20:44

I think so

Ahh, you can always rely on the Simpsons for accurate facts. And yes, our Prime Minister wears a big boot that he kicks people in the @rse with too

- MKL

May 23, 2000, 21:30

So is Australia really overflowing with Frogs now??? Man that Bart, what a guy

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~~~I am who I am, who I am - but who am I?~~~

MidKnight Lament · May 23, 2000, 23:05

No, but there's plenty of cane toads up north, and that's where they were pulling the gag from. Not this far south, though.

- MKL

Youngsun · May 24, 2000, 00:05

Yea I love those lovely toads! and the opposition leader(Kim the Grizzly bear)wears even bigger boots than the prime minister does.

MidKnight Lament · May 24, 2000, 00:26

I wouldn't have thought you had them in Darwin, but then I guess I didn't think about it. My girlfriend is from near Cairns, so she knows all about it.

And imagine Big Beazley does have much bigger boots.

Oh, and sorry for high-jacking your thread guys.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.

- MKL

Youngsun · May 25, 2000, 07:51

Yea I can imagine

I'm quite a fan of Paul Kidding and Kim Grizzly and I pity John Coward and his mobs especially Peter the cost raiser! Curse to him!!! Damn GST!

UltraSonix · May 26, 2000, 04:35

You guys realise that because of GST, that Civ3 will cost more when it's released than it would if it was released now?

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No, in Australia we don't live with kangaroos and koalas in our backyards...

ghazghkull · May 26, 2000, 05:45

Back to talking about tech trees, i think that some techs should affect other techs, like making them easier to research (rather than all techs taking the same time based upon your science) or increasing their effect.

May 26, 2000, 14:39

Hmmm...I have something to add to what you said, I don't think it's what you meant but it goes along with it...

You are the Zulus. You just traded Bronze Working to the Egyptians for Literacy. You now wish to research writing (in order to create a library). Should the acquisition of Writing be twice as fast now that you have Literacy? Or should you not be able to trade techs that you do not have prereqs for? (In my example, you would have to trade for Writing before acquiring literacy)

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~~~I am who I am, who I am - but who am I?~~~

Par4 · May 26, 2000, 18:52

Par4 likes getting certain techs makes other techs easier to get. I think you should trade techs higher than your preq but only 2 or 3 levels or your civ wouldn't be able to utilize them, Rome 200bc would not have understood refining but would have probably understood chemistry. Higher techs lower time for techs directly in its preq line.

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Don't ask for golf tips
Your game will get worse

tniem · May 28, 2000, 00:49

Orange raises a great point.

I don't think you should be able to gain knowledge if you do not have the prereqs. Especially earlier in the game. You can't be literate if you do not have knowledge of the alphabet or writing. Later in the game you might be able to skip things like plastics and still go on to the next level.