Population Number

Dwarf Lord · December 8, 2001, 10:55

After loading the first game with version 1.16f, the first thing I noticed was the terribly looking population number text. I immediatly skimmed though the forums to see if there were other people having the same problem and soon I did notice several complains. However, I think this issue should have its own thread so here it is.
If anyone doesn't know what I'm exactly talikng about, please have a look at my attachement... I just wonder why that shadow was added, it is extremely ugly and disturbing as it destroys the former beautiful look of the game. Surely, this one is only a graphics problem, but as for me, the overall game quality heavily suffers under it.
Thus, my petition to Firaxis is the following: Please change the number to its old look as soon as you have the time, I think the patch is not enjoyable with this graphics problem.

Best Regards,
Dwarf Lord

Wrong_shui · December 8, 2001, 11:01

So its ok to whine about numbers that are a lil bit harder to read, but its not ok to complain about tanks beating spearmen.

Well I dont think this is a bug more of a "Balance" issue. As it wouldnt of happened unless they wanted it too.

FIRAXIS IS GOD!

m_m_x · December 8, 2001, 12:05

im with u on that one man

TAKE OFF THIS UGLY SHADOW PLZ

Libertarian · December 8, 2001, 12:16

What it is okay to do, Wrong, is to log one's complaint about a bug or ameliorable game feature.

What it is not okay to do, behaviorally speaking, is to pitch hissy fits — to rant, threaten, cajole, warn, insult, dare, browbeat, taunt, spam, troll, and badger one's way into every thread on every topic for no reason other than to vent some inexplicable psychotic anger over an intrinsic and unchangeable game feature, or over a company guarding its proprietary secrets, or over a legitimate legal action against piracy and copyright infringement.

Compare Venger and Yin, for example.

Dwarflord, you're right about the pop numbers. That particular complaint has been logged elsewhere.

Kolyana · December 8, 2001, 12:33

Oh Jee, I AM WITH YOU ON THIS ONE!

I don't remember reading anywhere that the font needed to be fixed on the population levels, so why the hell did they tweak it???

And who the hell at Firaxis thought that this ugly, ugly, ugly shadow effect was appropriate? Who did this, a bloody intern with a glass eye? Was there no quality control here?

It's obviously incredibly ugly, obviously an eyesore and obviously hard to read.

GET RID OF IT!!!!

Sevorak · December 8, 2001, 18:14

Where did you get that font for your population numbers?

My population numbers don't use that font, and the shadow added with my numbers' font actually does improve the visibility of the numbers greatly.

If you customized the font, don't expect Firaxis to have to fix everything just for you.

-Sev

Peets · December 8, 2001, 18:24

umm, what is wrong with the number on the picture?
I don't see anything wrong...

AZWildCat · December 8, 2001, 18:25

I must agree that new font looks pretty bad. The old one had its flaws though. Playing Romans, (red), made it impossible to read population from the map if your cities were starving, since red on red is hard to see.

I assume yellow on yellow was hard too...

---
AZWC

Dwarf Lord · December 8, 2001, 18:27

Quote:

Originally posted by Sevorak
Where did you get that font for your population numbers?

My population numbers don't use that font, and the shadow added with my numbers' font actually does improve the visibility of the numbers greatly.

If you customized the font, don't expect Firaxis to have to fix everything just for you.

-Sev

I'm not using any modified fonts for civ3, the only "Mod" I have currently applied is the one which allows you to see the effects of wonders after their completion, and I highly doubt that this one affects the way fonts are displayed.

However, you have made me curious... Could you please post a screenshot from you population numbers? Have you compared your Numbers to the one in my screenshot? And how can I find out what font I'm using?

Regards,
Dwarf Lord

Xentropy · December 8, 2001, 18:29

My font looks just like that, Sevorak, and I haven't "customized" anything.

And Peets, 3's are actually decent looking, but try reading a 4 and you'd understand. The shadows make the numbers EXTREMELY difficult to read.

What does your font look like, Sevorak?? Screenshot, please! And if anyone knows how to "customize" that font, I'd LOVE to do so to make it look good like Sevorak claims his system does :>

Asharak · December 8, 2001, 18:36

I've got the patch now, and I don't really have a hard time reading anything.

I can't see a difference between your font and mine Dwarf Lord, but I can still see everything clearly...

Having never played Egyptian or Roman, I don't know about the yellow-on-yellow or red-on-red issues...

Oh well. In the grand scheme of things, it's a minor glitch.

- Ash

Dwarf Lord · December 8, 2001, 18:53

Quote:

Originally posted by Asharak
I've got the patch now, and I don't really have a hard time reading anything.

I can't see a difference between your font and mine Dwarf Lord, but I can still see everything clearly...

Having never played Egyptian or Roman, I don't know about the yellow-on-yellow or red-on-red issues...

Oh well. In the grand scheme of things, it's a minor glitch.

- Ash

My problem isn't that the numbers are a little bit more difficult to read (though it is slightly disturbing). The thing is that, when I load my game and see the lots of these immensly ugly numbers, I get so bothered that I quit moments later.

I will consider removing the patch again until this thing is fixed, because currently, I don't have fun with the game. Frankly, I simply can't bare looking at these damned-awful numbers all the time!

Regards,
Dwarf Lord

Libertarian · December 8, 2001, 18:54

They indeed are more horrid even than the meandering railroads.

Karhgath · December 8, 2001, 19:05

Well, while playing certain civ/color, it was very hard to see in certain situation, making it truly unreadable. So, they tried to fix it.

Is it better now? Well, at least you are now always able to read it, whatever the situation is, but it doesn't blend well with the rest of the game unfortunately...

Xentropy · December 8, 2001, 19:18

Quote:

Originally posted by Karhgath
Well, while playing certain civ/color, it was very hard to see in certain situation, making it truly unreadable. So, they tried to fix it.

Is it better now? Well, at least you are now always able to read it, whatever the situation is, but it doesn't blend well with the rest of the game unfortunately...

Actually, more accurately, you used to have a hard time reading the numbers when the foreground and background colors were nearly the same...

...Now, you have a hard time reading the numbers all the time!

Great fix! ;>

Dwarf Lord · December 8, 2001, 19:34

I have made some screenshots to compare the number graphics, just to make everyone notice the difference. (I wonder how you can not notice it, though)
Anyway, here is the first screenshot containing three numbers, pre patch.

Notice that the red number is a little flashly, but that's ok since it is supposed to make you aware (starving). If you have a closer look, you can see the beautiful number, without any shadow amd fresh and clear.

Dwarf Lord · December 8, 2001, 19:44

...and here, the 2nd screenshot, taken in post patch state. The same objects are used.

I could imagine that there are people who don't care much about this and call it, like Asharak did, a "minor glitch". (no offence, I absolutely respect your opinion)
However, I can't "live" with it, and as the replies show, there are others who think like me. I just hope Firaxis will change this as soon as possible, I won't install the patch in its current state. (Though I would love to if there weren't this problem - the other changes are really welcomed and much appreciated). Could be that I am oversensitive as far as such issues are concerned, but I still think this should be changed.

Regards,
Dwarf Lord

Dwarf Lord · December 8, 2001, 19:47

Damn...Here goes the 2nd try:

XPav · December 8, 2001, 20:02

The pop numbers of the AI cities you can't see look even worse.

Rest of the patch seems fine though.

Sarxis · December 8, 2001, 22:12

Hmm, I guess I must have missed how bad this is, because I didn't even notice this problem while playing..

hmmm....

I do know one thing: when you play as the Romans, you can still see what your city's population is when there is a food shortage.

Dwarf Lord · December 9, 2001, 05:44

Isn't there any way to remove the shadow or change the font or something like that? How can I edit such things?
I don't want to play with 1.07f till the next patch arrives and together with it, the number graphics are (hopefully) reverted again.

Regards,
Dwarf Lord

Dwarf Lord · December 10, 2001, 09:07

bump

xane · December 10, 2001, 12:03

Colouring the population is a stupid idea, for one it involves redundancy as the value next to the city name also shows growth or stability.

Why not keep the colour as white, then simply use the city name tag, i.e.

Berlin: 4 (grows in 4 turns)
Berlin: -- (no growth)
Berlin: Shortage (take a guess)

Malleus · December 10, 2001, 12:35

Quote:

Originally posted by Xentropy

Actually, more accurately, you used to have a hard time reading the numbers when the foreground and background colors were nearly the same...

...Now, you have a hard time reading the numbers all the time!

Great fix! ;>

K

Kolyana · December 10, 2001, 14:45

Dwarf Lord: Nice images, thanks. It really gives a good before and after feel. Well done.

Quote:

If you customized the font, don't expect Firaxis to have to fix everything just for you.

Sev, you're a bloody idiot. I'm not running a mod. Look at Dwarf Lords images and try to understand what you're talking about before you let your mouth run off (fingers?).

Idiot.

Redstar · December 10, 2001, 15:12

"They indeed are more horrid even than the meandering railroads."

I thought this was one of the best improvements of the game.
in civ

riginal and civ 2..the diagonal track in every single square was wretched. It also made seeing the resources hard.

I love the random patterns of the railroad!!

as to the numbers...i didn't notice until it was pointed out.

Ignorance can be bliss sometimes

Robm · December 10, 2001, 15:13

When I first installed the patch, and started the game. The very first thing I noticed was the ugly shading on the pop font. I wish it could be turned off by default.

Sevorak · December 10, 2001, 15:32

Kolyana,

What can I say? My city numbers just don't look like that. Is it not a safe assumption that when I have not made any changes to my Civ 3 that I'm running with the default font? Now, upon further inspection Dwarf Lord's typeface doesn't look all that different, but I don't get that ugly backshadow. I *did* look at the images, and while yes, they are pretty awful if you have the problem...I don't have it. What should I have done before I "let my mouth run off"? Polled everyone on Civ3-General to see what their typefaces looked like? Am I supposed to read your mind and see that you're not running a mod and that your text looks just like Dwarf Lord's? I'll certainly take blame for anything in which I'm wrong, but I just don't see where I made the idiot mistake here. Please enlighten (oh, and please be a little more civil in your response. Thank you.)

-Sev

gachnar · December 10, 2001, 16:05

Quote:

Originally posted by Dwarf Lord
My problem isn't that the numbers are a little bit more difficult to read (though it is slightly disturbing). The thing is that, when I load my game and see the lots of these immensly ugly numbers, I get so bothered that I quit moments later.

I will consider removing the patch again until this thing is fixed, because currently, I don't have fun with the game. Frankly, I simply can't bare looking at these damned-awful numbers all the time!

Dear god.

Now, Venger wont play cuz culture is a "crutch", Locutus wont play because the game was released later outside the US, and many people wont play because they want their tank to beat a pikeman every single time.

But you wont play because the text shadow is pixelated.

I think you've won.

For all the people complaining about game mechanics and design decisions, I haven't seen anyone say: "They should have spent more time on font rendering".

You know what the problem is? You always play the same civ. You are seeing this because its a known fact of the universe that full-red on full-blue is annoying to the eyes. When I play the Romans, yellow on red is nasty too. I haven't played the Egyptians much, but I bet red on yellow is worse.

Open the editor, change the color of the germans to something that will clash less. Brown works nice. Possibly grey. A dark green works too.

Dwarf Lord · December 10, 2001, 16:42

Quote:

Originally posted by Sevorak
What can I say? My city numbers just don't look like that.

Hmm...that's strange. Again, could you please post a screenshot of that? I do not intend to provoke you, I'm just hoping that there is a solution for this problem.
Maybe a picture of your numbers (plus some vital information about your config) could help finding the reason for the whole thing, thus allowing the civ players with the terribly looking shadow to investigate the problem and eventually find a solution.

Regards,
Dwarf Lord

edit: Wrong sig again. Those different pseudonyms are confusing.