Nwe Terrain Stuff

[UltraSonix]

Some ideas for new terrain related stuff:

Ocean-based volcanoes occassionally forming islands.
Bushfires burning through forests in equitorial regions...

Any (simple) others?

------------------
No, in Australia we don't live with kangaroos and koalas in our backyards...

I don't think in the Civ timeframe a volcano could rise to make islands. But I like the idea of fires and other disasters destroying improvements ala Civ 1. I also like the idea of Jungle terrain destruction leading to GW. (Didn't feel like posting on both threads)

------------------
~~~I am who I am, who I am - but who am I?~~~

[ember]

Problem is, has a new island formed in the last few thousand years that is strategically significant, i.e. as big as malta or sicily?
The time scale for any land-form changes is too long to be included.
Similiarly the time scale for bush fires is too short to be modeled, a bush fire lasts for a moth at most, but when turns are decades...

I have a proposal for a terrain system, that was originally posted for The List (v2.0)

TERRAIN

First step is determine the form of the terrain. Form never changes during the course of the game.
These are:
Deep ocean
Ocean shelf
Glacier
Mountain.

Flat
Hills
Major Rivers

Navigable rivers cannot be in hills, so to keep things simple they will be their own landform. Otherwise it is basically the same as flat.
Flat terrain gives a food bonus, hills have a defensive bonus and allow mines.

Vegetation:
Vegetation can only be applied to the last 3 landforms. The first 4 do not support vegetation types.


Plains
Grassland
Taiga (Evergreen Forest)
Boreal Forest
Rain Forest
Tundra
Desert
Swamp

Combinations to note:
hill + grasland = plateau
river + grassland = flood plains, the most fertile standard terrain type.
flat + grassland = no irrigation reguired.
taiga + hills = shield, like the canadian shield or siberia. This is the best resource producing terrain.
swamp + hills, acts as fresh water lakes, these cannot be changed to anything else. (just as a place keeping way of programming it)

Landform cannot be changed by your engineers.
Vegetation can.

Allowable changes:
Grassland <--> Boreal Forest
Taiga <--> plains
Swamp --> Grassland
Jungle --> Plains
Irrigated desert acts like Plains.
Irrigated plains acts like Grassland.
Tundra can't be changed to anything else.

Terraforming model.
Economic TI's are auto built by enginners in cities. A former type unit is fortified in a city. While it is there, it can automatically build farms and mines as well as changes the vegetation in friendly squares. You can change the terrain view mode "T" and click on squares to set their priority and change preffered. If villages are used, can only do squares surrounding friendly villages and cities. Squares do not have to be near the city the engineer is in, just connected by roads, or in the same region.

Engineers outside of cities act like normal civX, but they cannot build farms/mines. (to prevent building away from your pop centres). When acting this way they can build paths (along with most millitary units) as well as Roads, highways and RR, and military TI's

Nothing can be built on deep ocean/glaciers.

military TI's:

Bases act as both fortress and airbase, coastal bases can have ships enter as well. Units can be 'deployed' to bases.
Forts act as a scout unit and stop the first enemy unit to step on it. also offer some defense bonus.
Sonar acts as a fort in the water.

economic TI's:
Farms / modern farms, built on any plains, grassland or desert.
irrigation, built on desert or plains, makes it act as the next stage better, without changing it.
mines / modern mines, built on any hills or mountains. Farms can also be built if it is a grassland/plains square.
fisheries can only be built in continental shelf, which usually only extends one square from land, but sometimes more.

transport TI's:
Paths, built by and most military units as well, MP/2 move
Roads, MP/4 move, and give a trade bonus (and allow resource sharing) when connecting cities.
Highways, modern roads, MP/8 move, more resource sharing.
Rail-roads, MP/8, take 50% longer than highways to build, but enemy units act as if on path (or road?) when using.
Tunnels, connect two squares of land under a shallow ocean square. Allows land units to cross water.
Canal, connect two ocean squares over flat land. Can connect a city on a river to the sea if 1 square away.
When a unit enters a tunnel/canal it uses 1 full MP and goes directly to the other side, units cannot rest in a tunnel/canal. Both can only be used by the owner. Neither can be pillaged by sea units.
A tunnel is built by having an engineer on each end of the desired location. Both then build the tunnel. To use you press a key.


------------------
"Any technology, sufficiently advanced,
is indistinguishable from magic"
-Arthur C. Clark

[UltraSonix]

Wow! I just wanted some simple natural disasters - but I do like the model above. But I think the game should be kept simple by keeping a lot of the stuff in the background - eg the grassland+hills=plateau.

By the way, I think it should be entirely possible to have a ocean volcano come up during the course of a game. Only a square of land could be created in the middle of nowhere, so even though it could be slightly unrealistic (ie a square's too large), but it could be a nice touch to the game that wouldn't affect gameplay.

------------------
No, in Australia we don't live with kangaroos and koalas in our backyards...

In the game, on the highest map setting for the "world.mp" map, Hawaii is represented by one terrain square with a river in it. I guess that represents the 7 (or is it eight?) islands that make up Hawaii. So if the map size is staying the same, I don't see the Volcano theory being to accurate. However, with a new LARGER map it's doable. But only to a small extent. I wouldn't want to see it happen to often. Maybe once or twice a game. It would still have to be one small terrain square (that could eventually be used by a civ as a shipping port)

On a related note: Why aren't shipping ports represented in Civ? Sorta like an Air base? Any ideas on this?
An example of a Shipping port would be Guam, Singapore when occupied by the English, or other Pacific Islands (especially during WWII)

------------------
~~~I am who I am, who I am - but who am I?~~~
"Oh, they have the Internet on computers now!"

[Par4]

Orange didn't we get started on military bases earlier, but shipping ports are always in cities for population to run em and the warehouses so a city, maybe a small one that you don't run if we have em, and could have ships and trade routes stop and get a bonus in em.

------------------
I use this email
(stupid cant use hotmail)
gamma_par4@hotmail.com
Don't ask for golf tips
Your game will get worse
OMG if your hard drive dies,
And you ain't got backup of your files
Life sucks
Although I am doing a lot more Mountain Biking

[Hasdrubal]

UlraSonix' vulcano idea is entirely realistic! The process of vulcanic activity suddenly creating new islands even has a scientific name: a Surtseyan, after an island formed off the coast of Iceland after an eruption in 1963.
Iceland itself is also of quite recent origin, and the result of volcanic activity. As are many islands in the Atlantic and Pacific oceans.
The opposite, islands dissappearing, has also happened in living memory. The Greek island of Santorini exploded in antiquity, putting an end to a thriving city. Some claim that herein lies the origin of the 'Atlantis' myth. Other examples exist also, all within recorded history.
Volcanoes can quite easily be incorporated into the game:
Disasters/opportunities on sea and land, (Pompeji!);
climate changes (the eruption of the Krakatoa in 1883 or El Chichon in Mexico in 1982 affected the temperature worldwide, and caused some freak weather conditions in their respective regions);
in Iceland, New Zealand and elsewhere geothermal energy is an important energy source;
volcanic soil is amongst the most fertile in the world, which explains why volcanic eruptions often take a devastating toll on human lives.

------------------
Ceterum censeo Romanem esse delendam.

[Par4]

I like the volcanoe ideas, there is a volcano rising in the pacific right now at about 3 feet a year, now civ spands like 2000 years it should be able to rise. Oh poor Pompeii the empires most prosperous city destroyed in an instant. We will be able to see little tiny islands as Sid said they are going to have a great engine. I would like to see small islands important for airfields pre aircraft carriers or if aircraft carriers are in shortage like in WW2. I would still like to see air warfare redone alot.

------------------
I use this email
(stupid cant use hotmail)
gamma_par4@hotmail.com
Don't ask for golf tips
Your game will get worse
OMG if your hard drive dies,
And you ain't got backup of your files
Life sucks
Although I am doing a lot more Mountain Biking

[UltraSonix]

Finally! Some people agree - having a volcano rise up and create islands/destroy towns would be a small but realism-adding occurance. But of course, the option to turn these sort of disasters off should be there, if you're chicken...

------------------
No, in Australia we don't live with kangaroos and koalas in our backyards...