Unhappiness from pop-rushing: exact mechanics?

karlmarx9001 · December 10, 2001, 02:54

I remember that I posted in some other thread that unhappiness always clears off, at worst, in 20 turns.

It looks like I was wrong; I had a city with continued unhappiness (although the percentage due to "we won't forget your brutality" when you click on the unhappy heads kept going down) for at least 60 turns.

Does anyone know the exact mechanics?

absimiliard · December 10, 2001, 09:35

Current belief seem to be as follows.

1. Each unit of pop used to rush gives you 20 turns of unhappiness.
2. Those turns add up, so if you rush 3 pop you get your 60 turns.
4. First unit of pop rushed is worth 40 Shields, with some minor loss, additional units used to rush are worth only 20 Shields.

The math all derives from there.

Freeze · December 10, 2001, 15:02

Is this ever an issue? Follow your last rush by selling the granary and temple and build a settler to disband -- food supply must be stable or negative -- and refound the city.

David Weldon · December 10, 2001, 17:47

I have also noticed that oppression can linger on for a very long time, and I haven't done tests to prove it but I think that each turn of unhappiness must be "spent". Think of them as citizen-turns rather than just turns of unhappiness.

Eg:
You rush a granary with 2 citizens, producing 40 citizen-turns of unhappiness. For the next 5 turns you only have one citizen, so there are 35 citizen-turns of unhappiness left. After 5 more turns your 2 citizens have burned off 10 citizen-turns, leaving 25. After 5 more turns you grew again, but the original source was only from 2 oppressed citizens, so only 2 at a time can "work off" the oppression, so only another 10 citizen-turns is used up, leaving 15.

This would inply that the unhappiness should go away in a total of 22.5 turns. This could be checked by modifying the growth rate or keeping the city at a particular size and checking for various cases. Use a large map with only 1 other civ so you're undisturbed while testing...

Ineffablebob · December 11, 2001, 15:58

A related question. How does rushing while unhappiness is still being paid from a previous rush work out? For example, I've rushed a temple with 2 pop, resulting in 40 turns of unhappiness. 25 turns later, I spend two more citizens to rush something else. Do I now have (40 - 25) + 40 = 55 more turns, or do I get double unhappiness for the next 15 turns and regular unhappiness for the last 5?

David Weldon · December 11, 2001, 17:10

The penalties definitely add up in some manner. The best examples are my military towns:

They grow every other turn, so I pop-rush a horseman every 2 turns. That means the unhappiness is piling up much faster than it can be "spent". If all the penalties just overlapped, then 20 turns after my last pop-rush I should be fine, but that doesn't happen. Instead I have had towns that last into the modern age (over 250 turns!) and are still suffering from oppression. Of course, I normally disband and rebuild, but that's not the point of this thread...

I don't know the exact mechanics related to this, though I have presented my best guess earlier. What is absolutely certain is that the penalties don't just overlap.