Savegame naming conventions

[Jeffrey Morris FIRAXIS]

Any opinions?

jkm
firaxis games

[Joe Bourque]

I'd like "Tribe Name, Date": "Babylonians, 1429 A.D." A nifty feature might be to include the map name as well, or let you name the `world'. "Han Dynasty, Earth, 2044 A.D.", or "The Aegyptians, Riverworld, 110 B.C." You could even throw the goverment name in... "The Kingdom of Russia, Barsoom, 12 A.D." or "The American Theocracy, Trantor, 1848 A.D."

Nifty information, as well as `atmosphere', even in the save game files would be cool.

Joe

[Thunderfall]

Heroes of Might and Magic III has a very good interface for saving and loading files... You get to see a lot more info about the selected save game, not just the file name. Here is a screenshot

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Thunderfall
Webmaster of Civilization Fanatics Center @ Strategy Gaming Online
[This message has been edited by Thunderfall (edited April 06, 2000).]

[pris]

SMAC had a pretty much the perfect system i.e. [some text from user] + date. When you did a new save it automatically appended the new date to the user specific text.

It would be nice to specify a folder for all the saves in a game.

What we really need is someway to get more info about a file without opening it. For example if you select a file name it shows you details like;
player civs
real world date started
map size
etc, etc

[Paul]

Have a special file extension for Civ3 saved games so that you can double-click on them in Windows Explorer and have it automatically load the game, like with the PBEM games in CTP.

[Ubergeek]

I really liked the SMAC expansion of auto-saves, allowing you to back up by up to thirty turns.

One nit to pick relates to my own style of saving games. If I want to keep more than one save from a given year I usually just modify the year in the second save, i.e. "1602" and "1602a". The minor irritation I have is that the next save defaults to the modified year, for example "1604a", "1606a," etc., so that unless I manually change it back it keeps going like that. I would prefer it if it defaulted back to the regular year. I'm not sure if that made sense in the English language, but there it is.

A general preference would be to keep the saved game names relatively short, the way SMAC does. It tells you what you need to know but doesn't take up too much space. Joe Bourque's suggestion is well taken, but if you go that route maybe you could have a toggle: "Verbose savegame names" vs. "Terse savegame names" or something like that.

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Better living through tyranny

[Ubergeek]

I just wanted to add that it is EXTREMELY COOL that Firaxis is consulting us even on such small issues as this. It gives me confidence that the finished product will be well worth the wait.

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Better living through tyranny

[Gord McLeod]

I'd like to see subfolders for different games, and maybe a breakdown of information about the game. Leader - Civilization - Era - Year, so you might have: Imhotep - Egyptians - Stone Age - 3020 B.C.E or some such.

[The Mad Viking]

1. Absolutely get .sav files out of the game file directory. Ideally, a folder for each game.
2. User text for the start of the file name, followed by the year in the game. Default automatically repeats user text and appends the year.
3. File properties you can access via right-click button that tell you additional information - map name, which civ, etc.

Paul - you can tell Windows to use the Civ exe file to open all files with the .sav extension. (I haven't tried it, but it should work)

[Glak]

At the start of the game you name the game. There would be a checkbox, if you click it each save is a new file, otherwise it saves over the old. Additionally it would be nice if it turned the old save (before saving over it) into a backup file. So that would be another checkbox.

Saves should be compressed and uncompress when you load. That way people wouldn't zip files up when doing PBEM. No reason to add an extra step. You should be able to delete saves from within the game, no question about that. You should be able to doubleclick the file to start up the game using that save. Then from within the game you should be able to mail it out if it is a PBEM game

Having an associated extension for saved games would be cool... Games could be saved as *.SAV or even *.CIV or something, and you should be able to open them in explorer. They would also show up in the My Documents menu, giving us easy access to them...
This should extend to scenarios as well.
And you should be able to right click on a file and be presented with options like info etc.

Games could be saved with either text, date or text, civ, map date or whatever..

Saved games should be placed in a subdirectory in the main savedgame directory.



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-Shiva
Email: shiva@mailops.com
Web: http://www.crosswinds.net/india/~shiva
ICQ: 17719980

[Seeker]

I don't understand...

[Steve Clark]

I think Jeff is asking what the default name should be in the game save dialog box. I can't say anything about the non-Civ2 civ games, but in Civ2 it includes the year (for non-scenario games) and some letters in front. Personally, since I only have one game going at a time, I just type in the year for my occassional saves (e.g., 4000, 1150). I still like the idea of auto saves with its unique names (auto_save1?). My only preference is to have a Saved Games folder so I can find the saved game file easily (there are alot of files under the default directory in which the .sav file can get buried).

[Atahualpa]

I am with Glak!

Also, why bother about selecting a name for the savegame. Simply press ctrl+s and everything is done automatically.

ATa

[Paul]

Mad Viking: that only works if the game is programmed to to that. And if this is implemented the extension should definately not be .sav. That extension is used be many other games; if you want to automatically start Civ3 when you double-click a saved game it should have a unique extension. I also like Glak's and Sir Shiva's ideas.

The right-click info is definately a good idea; I like that in MS Office when you right-click an Office document in Windows Explorer and select properties you can get all sorts of info about that document. For Civ3 you should get things like leader name, civ name, game year and perhaps some other things.

So then the extension will have to be .CIV ?



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-Shiva
Email: shiva@mailops.com
Web: http://www.crosswinds.net/india/~shiva
ICQ: 17719980

[tniem]

More importantly than saved game file names is a short summary of what has happened the past few turns, especially for PBEM games. These could be as simple as...

tniem of the Americans
Democracy, 1999 AD.
Have 32 cities for x population
At war with Russians and Chinese
At peace with England, NATO, Japan, Israel
Last turn took city of Beijing and Stalingrad
Two turns ago lost Stalingrad
Money x amount
Very close to new tech

I completely agree with Glak here. That's the way I'd want it.

How about complete statistics? In an explorer-like interface you could pick just to see the files, or to see the files with the Civ used, the in-game turn, any mods used, the date last modified and maybe the current number of points. Then you could sort them by any of these values, so you could get them alphabetically, by date, by mod used and so on.

Oh, and have a look at ngWorldStats that comes with Unreal Torurnament. Great tool...

[tobyr]

The save file names should follow two conventions:

(1) As a stertup option, let ME choose the pathname and the first part of the file name, e.g.:
c:
my\romans\pi

(2) The file names should be named so that they will mostly list alphabetically in chronological order, e.g.:
pi_a4000.sav
pi_a0800.sav
pi_b0001.sav
pi_b0500.sav
pi_b0925.sav etc.

Note that I use 'a' for the first age and 'b' for the second, and all dates produce FOUR DIGITS. (It might be even better to use 'f' for first age and 's' for second age.)

My approach still leaves the first-age dates listing in reverse order, but that seems an inevitable result of the way the game models dates.

- toby


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toby robison
criticalpaths@mindspring.com

[Stuff2]

I would prefer it quite simple.

Player's name and game year. like this:

"Stuffman 1728 AD"

[Gearyman]

Several people already mentioned the folder idea. Have a separate folder for each different game, with a name like 'Smith of the Germans'.

Then, inside that folder, save the actual games. You could then just save it as a_190.sav or b_3500.sav

I like the 'list of statistics' idea by tniem, although what information to list could be debated about until Civ IV arrives.

An idea might be to allow the user to choose whether to have 'statistics' or not, and maybe give a list and allow the user to choose which statistics to keep, since some are more important to one person than another.

[Diodorus Sicilus]

Each game when saved for the first time should generate its own Folder. The same Game title should always generate a save to that same folder, which (ideally) will give you a set of Historical "shots' of the game's progress when you're done - or give up from tedium.
My own personal convention is to designate each game by the name of the Ruler that I am playing and the level, so my saved game folders are labeled things like KingAsterix, DietyFriedrich, PrinceIvor, etc.
I like the idea of a summary, but one that could be included as a part of each game turn: at the end of each turn a Tablet, Newspaper, or similar display (appropriate to the Era) giving the latest events. The previous turn's display would then be available if you save a game before completing the next turn, and the current turn's summary would be available if you saved at the end of the turn. Another feature could be a "string" of the trun summaries generated at the end of the game as a History file: a brief record of how your game went without having to save a couple of hundred game-turns individually...

[HyperElite]

Having a separate save game folder for each specific game sounds good.

As for a naming system for the savegames I think the one used in Civ 1 would satisy me.

[Grier]

Default should be: Leader_Name - Race - Year
and a view of the map and graph as in CTP.

[Glak]

I think having a game name set at the beginning is preferable, because that way it will be unique, otherwise if you play the same name/tribe combo more than once it will interfer with another game. If you want you can just set the game name to your name and tribe.

[Kumiorava]

Firts of all, get those .sav files out of the /game folder.

It would also be very nice if one could specify a deffault save folder in the game options, with maby optional subfolders for each game.

As for the filenames, the deffaults of CivI
and II worked OK. No need to make them any longer. Very long filenames would only make a mess in explorer. And of course, you could always supply your own filenames the way you like them. Maby even make it possible to specify your own deffault format in the options,ie. _. or whatever.

The extra game info in explorer or the load-game dialog idea is a must.

- Kumis

[Steve Clark]

I believe my initial reply was too simplistic. As a software developer, I had to deal with how users save their work and in what extension to apply. In most cases, I just supply the standard Windows dialog box and have the user type in what ever they want, with the proper extension.

The key questions to ask in saving a Civ game are:
What advantage/disadvantage is there in supplying more (or less) information in the saved filename?
When users play multiple games at once, will it necessitate multiple saved game folders or much longer, descriptive filenames in one folder?
Is the primary purpose is to find a particular saved game among many or the most recent one?
Shall the filename convention be totally user-defined or can it be automated with some type of incremental counter?
Should the default name be based on a user-defined parameter (as suggested) or programmed?
What about the extension, can it be registered so that a user can start from the saved file or will this cause loading problems?
And perhaps the primary question: Shall it be designed so that the user can save a game where-ever, whenever and however they like or shall the designers force some restrictions to maintain integrity, reliability and consistency?
[This message has been edited by Steve Clark (edited April 11, 2000).]

[Adm.Naismith]

A "border" suggestion about save file is:

Please, make on the first game screen the default button "Load last saved game" (with the related name or info showed in a small box).
I hate on SMAC to have to wait every time the loading of INTRO, then press "ESC" to stop it, then hit "LOAD", then (thank you is the current underlined file ) hit enter to load the game I'm currently playing.
And I have skipped the screen "Play the game/Install/Uninstall" that I get if I insert the SMAC CD ROM with autorun ON

Please, make some shortcut!


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Adm.Naismith AKA mcostant

[ChrisShaffer]

I suggest that Ironman force you to save the game to the same path/filename for the entire game. Ironman is useless if all it means is a bit of hassle to reload and no autosaves. As currently implemented, I can save gaian-2108.sav, gaian-2109.sav, gaian-2110.sav, etc. I can back up to any point I want. The only difference from a regular game is that, instead of the game automatically creating the backup files, I have to do it myself and it takes a bit longer.

I just had a good idea..

Each game has its own sub-dir (CIV3\Saves\Gamename\), and the program should know which is the most recent save. Then when you click Open Game, you will receive a list of all the games. Now, the list should have the foll.:-

A little screen shot of the map on the left, which can be enlarged..
Info on the right, like tniem's.
Button to load game (most recent one)
Button to load older save (brings up a list)
User comments..

The saved games themselves therefore can have v. minimalistic names, probably just date and civ..




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-Shiva
Email: shiva@mailops.com
Web: http://www.crosswinds.net/india/~shiva
ICQ: 17719980