v1.16f: Issues? Bugs? This is the thread

[Friday]

Runs great on my machine (win2k) the refresh thing was a huge help, it was playing at 120Hz, even with an optional patch I found that fixed the win2k/nvidia/dx8 refresh bug. But I put Refresh=85 in the ini file and problem solved.

Things missing from the patch imo is more government type choices, a la Ancient's mod but more balanced and more diplomacy choices. For example being able to cancel alliances and trades without having to go to war. Certainly there should be some penalty but not that extreme.

Government types that could be added: Facism, Constitutional Monarcy, Democratic Socialism, Theocracy (fundamentalism). Much like in Ancients player made patch.

[Fugi the Great]

I installed the latest patch yesterday, and played part of a game (first one in weeks due to excessive corruption in game), which for the most part went pretty good. Ran a Republic government with lots of corruption, but possibly acceptable if this is considered a "primitive" government (never was considered this in Civ 1 or 2). Later switched to Communism which was very much improved, I could still build things on my outer cities - rather quickly actually. I later switched to Democracy due to massive qualities of pollution. Man what a mistake, Corruption is EXCESSIVE especially in outer cities and now my outer cities might actually get a building finished in 80 - 100 turns. Switched back to Communism that same turn where it would only take 20.

The following is a few things I noticed in the game. Science was adjusted to a maximum level to allow me to still make a profit.

Communism income: 1482
corruption: 414 - (27.93%)
Science at 70 - space flight in 8 turns

(a couple of turns later when I got into democracy)

Democracy income: 2413
corruption: 694 - (28.76%)
Science at 50 - space flight in 6 turns

To me, Communism is probably about where it should be, though it would be nice to lower the pollution a bit. Democracy on the other hand is still screwed up. It is less efficient then communism, production is reduced way to low, and in outer cities you can forget trying to build anything. True you can get technology faster with a democracy, but why bother when it takes you 5 times longer to build something more "high tech" than with communism. Please fix.


Then for the random numbers used in determining when a resource is used up. I was in-between governments (communism and democracy) as in Anarchy as in nothing is being built in the cities, when I was told that I ran out of Oil at a certain location - how can that be, it wasn't used during those turns? Later it said I ran out of uranium and aluminum, but I have yet to ever build anything that required these resources to build. Actually I think it would be better to say that a resource has XXX amount, and that number would decrease (if it is being used) until it is used up. Sort of like the real world where we know approximately how many tons, barrels, years of a certain resource we have left.

These few faults turned a fairly enjoyable game into a sucky one very quickly where you can tell this game wasn't properly tested before they rushed it out the door.

I just got this crash error:

CIVILIZATION3 caused an invalid page fault in
module CIVILIZATION3.EXE at 0137:004f30e1.
Registers:
EAX=0a8d2b80 CS=0137 EIP=004f30e1 EFLGS=00010206
EBX=0072b16c SS=013f ESP=00abf8a0 EBP=0072aef8
ECX=00000313 DS=013f ESI=4e29332e FS=0e9f
EDX=4e293954 ES=013f EDI=00000300 GS=0000
Bytes at CS:EIP:
f6 04 95 20 09 65 00 40 74 2d 39 85 74 36 00 00
Stack dump:
00000024 0072aef8 00000000 00000000 0055885e 00000024 000006ec 00000012 005d1cc0 00000000 004ee83e 00000002 00000024 004529b4 00000000 00610ce0

Not sure if these help any but...

I am using Post Patch, after 2050 (playing it with my civ being the last one standing as a fancy sim game =)

I went to the civalpedia(sp) and it crashed. I did change some of the sea unit combat values, but no tech, etc...

Used a windows 95 system

[RedShark]

Can someone else confirm that CORRUPTION in civ 3 (with patch) has not been reduced and, as I reckon, does not work.

Playing a game last night as Persians (Monarchy), had a city 10 squares from my palace, producing 18 shields of which 6 (a third) was being lost to corruption. I thought this was a bit excessive so I tried to sort it out. Built a courthouse, made no change, still losing 6 of 18 shields (what is the point of courthouses, does not look like it reduces corruption to me). Anyway I figured it might be because I was a Monarchy, so I changed to Republic, corruption should be a little less. No, with Republic I was still losing 6 of 18 shields, again no change. By now I was getting annoyed as it appeared that no matter what I did, nothing changed as far as corruption was concerned. So I changed to Democracy, that should reduce the corruption, but no, still losing 6 of 18 shields.

I do have a very large empire, my cities are connected by railroad. Also all my cities about 4 city lengths (20 squares) or more away from my Palace and Forbidden Palace or produce one shield.

All I can deduce from this is that corruption is still way out of control and we now can do nothing about it. Corthouses are useless, corruption effects of Monarchy, Republic and Democracy seem to be the same.

Now I don't mind rampant corruption as long as I can do something about it (always been a feature of all 3 civ games and adds to gameplay), but at present nothing can be done at all which just makes it a complete nuisance and game breaker.

Hence I reckon it has to be broken and it has not been fixed in the patch. Or I could be wrong and the corruption stuff only affects commerce and shields lost through innefficiency.

[Peets]

Originally posted by Fugi the Great
Then for the random numbers used in determining when a resource is used up. I was in-between governments (communism and democracy) as in Anarchy as in nothing is being built in the cities, when I was told that I ran out of Oil at a certain location - how can that be, it wasn't used during those turns? Later it said I ran out of uranium and aluminum, but I have yet to ever build anything that required these resources to build. Actually I think it would be better to say that a resource has XXX amount, and that number would decrease (if it is being used) until it is used up. Sort of like the real world where we know approximately how many tons, barrels, years of a certain resource we have left.

You know that resource dissapearing have nothing to do with how much you use it? ::

[Be'lial]

After installing the patch and playing solidly for the last week, theres a couple of things I've noticed now not working properly...

a) The top 5 cities in the world list is broken. It seems to count my cities *far* more than an AI's on this list.

For example, in my last game I was using my capitol as a settle factory, with only a temple, granary and 1 spearman defender. Its population never got above 3.

And yet, when I check the top 5 cities list, with population 2 its ranked above Berlin, at population 12 and 2 World Wonders!!

My enemies cities are larger, full of happy people and have far higher culture, yet all rank below my capitol. Wierd...

(I'd take screenshots if someone could tell me how... doh!)

b) The game itself seems more unstable - before the patch, I coould leave it running for any length of time with no problems ever occuring. Now, it always crashes after a while (>2 hours, admittedly), with the standard internal error message.

c) Please change the population box number colours back to how they used to be - I play as the Egyptians, and the new shadowing effect is awful...

(Oh, and I've reinstalled the game and patch twice).

[colton]

Originally posted by Soren Johnson Firaxis


Would it be possible for you (or anyone else experiencing this problem) to post a zipped save game in which it is happening? I'd like to track it down.... thanks.

(problem=automated workers taking too much time]


Soren,

I experienced a bug which seemed very similar to the problem the other poster described. I don't have a saved game file, but here are my observations:

(originally posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic newsgroup)

Civ3 crashed my system last night, the first time that's happened. I'm not sure if it's due to the new patch, or if it's a situation that I
just had not encountered previously.

I investigated the problem more, and got the crash to repeat (just
crashed Civ3 the second time, not my entire system).

The bug seems to be this-- I had two parts of my territory separated by a friendly nation, with whom I had "right of passage". The problem arose in an "isthmus" (a narrow neck land) in the other nation was blocked by *his* workers, whom I could not see (it took about 5 of them to block the isthmus completely, so it was basically just coincidence). My automated workers were trying to get to the other part of my territory, through the isthmus. A worker would approach the isthmus, realize that there were units blocking its way, attempt to go
around, realize that there were units blocking its way over there too, then attempt to go around the first way again, etc. It seemed like the computer somehow got out of this infinite loop with one or two of my workers [after taking around 20-30 seconds per worker], but on the third or fourth, the game crashed.

The solution to this problem was for me to move other units (armies) close to the isthmus, so that the blockage by computer workers was visible to me. It took about three armies to completely illuminate the area. After I did this, my automated workers had absolutely no problem; they didn't try to connect to the second part of my territory.


John

[Blackfish]

A few general whinges about the patch:
[1] InstallShield
OK, I just don't like InstallShield, so perhaps the installation issues aren't related to IS... but I'd suggest that the guys at Firaxis take a look at MSI. Perhaps this would allow the patch to pull the product install directory (and not require the user to edit the location if installed to non-default location).

[2] Armies
No unload or upgrades possible. Old and common whinge, I am sure.

[3] Conscription / Draft
Unable to draft units from cities not on same continent as palace. As designed or bug? If by design, please update Civilopedia in next patch.

[4] Corruption
W/o hacking the settings, going for a domination victory is very difficult on a huge map. Suggest an additional building type similar to a palace (but with reduced area of effect) to allow players to capture an area and build it up at a rate faster than 1 shield a turn. Or perhaps a max corruption for the city if you have a courthouse, and a further gain (even lower max corruption) if you additionally have a police station?

[5] Bombing a unit with 1 HP.
How about a pop-up warning that you are actually targeting the improvements?

[6] Declaring war
How about a pop-up dialog warning that you are declaring war fromt he diplomacy screen? OK, I was a little drunk and the pointer wobbled when I clicked that I didn't want to accept the computer's ridiculous trade offer. But it was a little annoying that I had to go and crush an AI which was a good customer for a few excess luxuries... Not really necessary... but led to be really irritated by #4 above.

[marcmfs]

Originally posted by Jeffrey Morris FIRAXIS
Hey guys. We're trying to track down any problems that are new to v1.16f (the second one) and things listed in the readme.txt that don't work. We already know about the title boxes drawing on advisor screens for resolutions higher than 1024x768 and workers on automation not piling on like they used to.

If you're having a problem, please uninstall the patch, uninstall the game, and reinstall both and see if the problem persists. v1.07f Saves load in v1.16f, but if the weirdness vanishes if you start a fresh v1.16f game, chalk it up to a version problem.

Thanks.

Jeff

exploite: in v1.06f use of palace to get an advance start on a Wonder you cant build yet. in new patch.... its worse since now the palace usually costs more than most wonders, so now im able to bounce to the palace and save all the wonder construction for the next wonder.

[Satis5d]

Originally posted by Jeffrey Morris FIRAXIS


Contact Infogrames tech support. They have a non-safedisc exe they can send to you after verifying your copy of the game.

Jeff

That's not what they told me. I asked for it and I got a message sayong that they don't have anything that will allow me to not use my CD.

I'm still playing v1.07f.

Time to go to alternate sources, I fear.

[WarKing]

First, I'm glad the public school system didn't fail you

I too can read

When Firaxis implements mp, I pray I get the chance to personally demonstrate the efficiency of modern artillery to yours truly!

Anywho, I do agree with you on the governor, it needs more options and it builds too many units.

I have tried messing with the preferences...seems that sometimes the buttons on the screen highlight-have been clicked-but do nothing. Animations off make the game faster anyway. You may have noticed, using your infinite programming abilities that the AI's units are animated, even if you can't see them...so while the games slows down for your own animated units, it is also slowing down for the AI's units.

Finally, as for the manual ROTFLMAO HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

If you're using the manual for anything other than unit properties and resource properties, and those infamous hotkeys, then you're fooling yourself it you think it's actually a useful item

[dconner]

Originally posted by antoinebj

Written somewhere, but I don't remember where:
- To upgrade all units of the same type, just activate one and press Shift-U. (for dconner -> )

Cheers!

Right, I was aware of that. The problem, however, is that Shift-U only upgrades the units if they're in a city with a Barracks, Harbor, or Airport (depending on unit type, of course.) So in the case of Fighters, Shift-U only upgrades the ones that happen to be in a city with an Airport at the time; the others have to be moved to an Airport first.

Incidentally, that'd be another nice addition - if you could do an "Upgrade All" Shift-U like command on the Military Advisor page itself.

[PN]

Originally posted by Jeffrey Morris FIRAXIS
Hey guys. We're trying to track down any problems that are new to v1.16f (the second one) and things listed in the readme.txt that don't work. We already know about ...

Excuse me, I only just noticed this highlihted in italics piece at the top of the thread.

Is this readme that tells us what the fixes are? YOU want US to tell you whether they really have been fixed? So what did your testers do before it was released? How much do you pay them? Please can we have a percentage for doing at least part of their job for them?

When are you going to turn this around and stop information gathering to tell us what you (Firaxis) are now acknowledging as new bugs, old bugs that weren't really fixed, and stability problems?

I think that you also ought to know that the support at your publisher (Infogrames) has not even acknowledged my fault reports through their web site. Not even an auto-acknowledgement. Either the site is broken which means you're losing valuable information, overloaded so maybe my fault report never reached them (also a problem for you losing information), or they are just plain ignoring fault reports.

[Donnyb20]

One problem I've noticed with installing the patch is that when you first install it, the attitudes of all the civs change to "annoyed" towards you. Before I installed the patch, two civs were polite and one cautious, the rest were either annoyed or furious because I was at war with them, as soon as I installed the patch, all the civs were annoyed at me, except the ones I was at war with which were still furious. I even uninstalled the patch and the game (because uninstalling the patch apparentlly does not remove it completelly), before uninstalling I copied my saved games to the desktop, just to be sure it didn't uninstall them. Then I re-installed only the game and started from the last saved game, When I went to the diplomacy screen the civs were the same as before installing the patch, two were polite and one cautious. Then I re-installed the patch again and the same thing happened, where they all became annoyed again. Has anyone else noticed this happen?

The other main problem I see is what quite a few other people have complained about, which is that the numbers showing the size of the city were changed to a yellowish/white color, which is hard to determine the size of the city and at least to me does not look or show up as good.

[Gramphos]

Originally posted by PN
Excuse me, I only just noticed this highlihted in italics piece at the top of the thread.

Is this readme that tells us what the fixes are? YOU want US to tell you whether they really have been fixed? So what did your testers do before it was released? How much do you pay them? Please can we have a percentage for doing at least part of their job for them?

When are you going to turn this around and stop information gathering to tell us what you (Firaxis) are now acknowledging as new bugs, old bugs that weren't really fixed, and stability problems?

I think that you also ought to know that the support at your publisher (Infogrames) has not even acknowledged my fault reports through their web site. Not even an auto-acknowledgement. Either the site is broken which means you're losing valuable information, overloaded so maybe my fault report never reached them (also a problem for you losing information), or they are just plain ignoring fault reports.

Do you know how big a game as Civ3 is. To test all possible things that the user can do, in all ways, on all systems is impossible for the testers. They do a quick test to see that the game doesn't crash totally, and that something didn't get totally wrong for fixing something.

[Pythagoras]

Originally posted by PN


Excuse me, I only just noticed this highlihted in italics piece at the top of the thread.

Is this readme that tells us what the fixes are? YOU want US to tell you whether they really have been fixed? So what did your testers do before it was released? How much do you pay them? Please can we have a percentage for doing at least part of their job for them?

When are you going to turn this around and stop information gathering to tell us what you (Firaxis) are now acknowledging as new bugs, old bugs that weren't really fixed, and stability problems?

I think that you also ought to know that the support at your publisher (Infogrames) has not even acknowledged my fault reports through their web site. Not even an auto-acknowledgement. Either the site is broken which means you're losing valuable information, overloaded so maybe my fault report never reached them (also a problem for you losing information), or they are just plain ignoring fault reports.

Yeah Firaxis just happens to be able to test civ3 on every windows platform with every concievable hardware combination and id all conflicts. The idea here is that bugs crop up a lot due to a lot of different reasons having to do with the specifics of peoples computers. Its hard for people to anticipate these things. Its not like developing for the playstation, where every console is virtually identical with not a lot of modification. In the PC world you got every concievable user from someone's mom running ghetto win 95 to joe-blow running XP which he's h@x0r3d and massively overclocked every thing posible. You gotta support all ends of the spectrum.

[gamma]

In the game I'm currently playing, when a square is polluted, the food and shields (and commerce too, I assume, though I haven't checked that) aren't deducted from what my city produces. If I then clean up that square and put a citizen back to work on it, I end up with a city making more food, shields, and commerce than it ought to. For instance, if I turn all my citizens into entertainers in the city screen, the city will say it's producing 6 food and 3 shields, even though it's built on plain grassland.

The discrepancy seems to go away if I save and reload the game.

I'm playing without the patch, but I haven't seen this bug address in the listed patch fixes on www.civ3.com. Is it fixed?

[Tall_Walt]

Originally posted by dconner


Right, I was aware of that. The problem, however, is that Shift-U only upgrades the units if they're in a city with a Barracks, Harbor, or Airport (depending on unit type, of course.) So in the case of Fighters, Shift-U only upgrades the ones that happen to be in a city with an Airport at the time; the others have to be moved to an Airport first.

Incidentally, that'd be another nice addition - if you could do an "Upgrade All" Shift-U like command on the Military Advisor page itself.

I'll cast my vote towards easy of use over "realism". It's more than a little bizarre that you can build, say, a rifleman in a city where you can't upgrade a unit to rifleman because it doesn't have a barracks. If you can build it, you should be able to upgrade it. After all you're just upgrading the hardware, the troops are still experienced. If you've really got a city that's cut off, ok, but requiring players to shuffle units through barracks or build barracks just to upgrade units is a waste of playing time. I think allowing such upgrades would be realistic. And this is a game: the question always is, "Is this fun?" Micromanaging shuffling units around to do upgrades isn't. IMHO, of course.

As far as upgrading units in the field, SMACX was perhaps a bit too loose about it, yet I'd like to see some convenient way of doing such upgrades. A possiblity is to allow upgrades (losing a turn, unlike SMACX) as long as a unit has a supply path to a friendly city. Given the time scale of the game (which is wildly inconsistent, of course) it seems reasonable that a new unit would come out to replace the old unit and the old unit would go to the city to be upgraded in a time insignificant in the scale of game turns.

[Raion]

Yes, I am happy to report that by putting the 'Refresh' in the Civ3.Ini file with 75Hz whereas Windows always makes it 120Hz, that now the opening movie is not locking up with the sound and the 'Sound' is now working!

I had fixed IE5.5 and updated some critical package and fonts go bad in IE5.5 that affect the games opening menu screen, but by uninstalling Civ III and reinstalling Civ III and (I guess) fixing IE5.5 (whether that has anything to do with it) everything is working now since the 1.16f later patch version was also re-installed.

Now on to the gameplay issues, and perhaps, it not as bad as some people think it is!

Civ III is a different animal, but what kind of animal do you want on your computer!

I will also play with the "WIN" options of the game, because the computer should be more aggressive if all the "WIN" options are on, and by default they are.
So if I can not handle the military win option or the 2/3 territory domination win option, I will turn them "OFF".

Later and have some fun, because a game finally came out,
and CIVILIZATION III is 'only a computer game'.

It took me a while to get up to King level in CIV II, but still I never usually played (probably none) with the 'Bloodlust' win option on.
So, check the 'Win' conditions for the type of game you want to play with CIV III.

Bye-e!

[Bad Ax]

Originally posted by Tall_Walt

It's more than a little bizarre that you can build, say, a rifleman in a city where you can't upgrade a unit to rifleman because it doesn't have a barracks. If you can build it, you should be able to upgrade it.

I think the next patch should include a change such that a unit can upgrade in a city without a barracks, but it becomes either a conscript or a regular troop, regardless of its previous level. So

Elite -> Regular
Veteran -> Regular
Regular -> Conscript
Conscript -> Conscript

This seems like it would realistically portray the soldiers' unfamiliarity with their new weapons. In gameplay terms, it improves the upgrade system while still leaving an incentive to build barracks in all or most cities.

[Raion]

No, I am still having problems with the game. A few marks were on the limited edition CD out of the tin box, but still it is not right even with the Patch. My sound and video work with DX8.0a and another game works with my old sound card but this game still does not work right when exiting the game. The sound worked right once, but then I exited the game and next time it did not. I turned off my computer, tried a different refresh and the game would not even start. Something with returning back to Windows after exiting the game.

I can play the game without sound by renaming sound.dll to sound.dl_ but still it worked one time after uninstalling and reinstalling again + the patch 1.16f later version.

I tried the Infogames support thing, but after 3 times of telling me I left out info that must be included, I gave up there.

The game just does not end right.

 DirectSound test results: All tests were successful.
 DirectDraw test results: All tests were successful.
 Direct3D test results: All tests were successful.
 DirectMusic test results: All tests were successful.

------------------
System Information
------------------
Time of this report: 12/14/2001, 15:30:10
Machine name: AFCATTOI
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 98 (4.10, Build 2222) A
Language: English (Regional Setting: English)
System Manufacturer:
System Model:
BIOS:
Processor: Intel Celeron, MMX, ~500MHz
Memory: 160MB RAM
Page File: 65MB used, 723MB available
DirectX Version: DirectX 8.0 (4.08.00.0400)
DX Setup Parameters: None
DxDiag Version: 4.08.00.0400

------------
DxDiag Notes
------------
DirectX Files Tab: The file mciqtz.drv is a beta version, which is unsupported and could cause problems.
You should reinstall DirectX to get the latest version.
Display Tab 1: The file ATI2DRAA.DRV is uncertified, which means that it has not been tested by Microsoft's Windows Hardware Quality Labs. You may be able to get a certified driver from the manufacturer of the hardware device.
Sound Tab 1: No problems found.
Music Tab: DirectMusic test results: All tests were successful.
Input Tab: No input devices detected.
No problems found.
Network Tab: No problems found.

------------------
DirectX Components
------------------
ddraw.dll: 4.08.00.0400 English Final Retail 11/7/2000 15:16:46 369664 bytes
ddraw16.dll: 4.07.00.0700 English Final Retail 9/9/1999 07:00:00 28496 bytes
ddrawex.dll: 4.87.00.0700 English Final Retail 9/9/1999 07:00:00 24336 bytes
ddraw.vxd: 4.07.00.0700 English Final Retail 9/9/1999 07:00:00 30469 bytes
ddhelp.exe: 4.08.00.0400 English Final Retail 11/7/2000 15:16:46 41984 bytes
dxapi.sys: 4.87.00.0700 English Final Retail 9/9/1999 07:00:00 2416 bytes
d3d8.dll: 4.08.00.0400 English Final Retail 11/7/2000 15:16:46 1082368 bytes
d3dref8.dll: 4.08.00.0400 English Final Retail 11/7/2000 15:16:46 236544 bytes
d3dim.dll: 4.07.00.0700 English Final Retail 9/9/1999 07:00:00 625936 bytes
d3dim700.dll: 4.08.00.0400 English Final Retail 11/7/2000 15:16:46 872960 bytes
d3dref.dll: 4.08.00.0400 English Final Retail 11/7/2000 15:16:46 140800 bytes
d3dramp.dll: 4.07.00.0700 English Final Retail 9/9/1999 07:00:00 590096 bytes
d3drm.dll: 4.06.02.0436 English Final Retail 4/23/1999 22:22:00 446464 bytes
d3dxof.dll: 4.06.02.0436 English Final Retail 4/23/1999 22:22:00 118784 bytes
d3dpmesh.dll: 4.06.02.0436 English Final Retail 4/23/1999 22:22:00 102400 bytes
dplayx.dll: 4.08.00.0400 English Final Retail 11/7/2000 15:16:46 245760 bytes
dpmodemx.dll: 4.08.00.0400 English Final Retail 11/7/2000 15:16:46 90112 bytes
dpwsockx.dll: 4.08.00.0400 English Final Retail 11/7/2000 15:16:46 98304 bytes
dplaysvr.exe: 4.08.00.0400 English Final Retail 11/7/2000 15:16:46 45056 bytes
dpnsvr.exe: 4.08.00.0400 English Final Retail 11/7/2000 15:16:46 86016 bytes
dpnet.dll: 4.08.00.0400 English Final Retail 11/7/2000 15:16:46 237568 bytes
dpnlobby.dll: 4.08.00.0400 English Final Retail 11/7/2000 15:16:46 98304 bytes
dpnwsock.dll: 4.08.00.0400 English Final Retail 11/7/2000 15:16:46 143360 bytes
dpnaddr.dll: 4.08.00.0400 English Final Retail 11/7/2000 15:16:46 90112 bytes
dpnmodem.dll: 4.08.00.0400 English Final Retail 11/7/2000 15:16:46 159744 bytes
dpvoice.dll: 4.08.00.0400 English Final Retail 11/7/2000 15:16:46 442368 bytes
dpvsetup.exe: 4.08.00.0400 English Final Retail 11/7/2000 15:16:46 122880 bytes
dpvvox.dll: 4.08.00.0400 English Final Retail 11/7/2000 15:16:46 184320 bytes
dpvacm.dll: 4.08.00.0400 English Final Retail 11/7/2000 15:16:46 90112 bytes
dinput.dll: 4.08.00.0400 English Final Retail 11/7/2000 15:16:46 671744 bytes
dinput8.dll: 4.08.00.0400 English Final Retail 11/7/2000 15:16:46 704512 bytes
dinput.vxd: 4.08.00.0400 English Final Retail 11/7/2000 15:16:46 10874 bytes
dimap.dll: 4.08.00.0400 English Final Retail 11/7/2000 15:16:46 102400 bytes
diactfrm.dll: 4.08.00.0400 English Final Retail 11/7/2000 15:16:46 425984 bytes
vjoyd.vxd: 4.08.00.0400 English Final Retail 11/7/2000 15:16:46 33361 bytes
joyhid.vxd: 4.88.00.0400 English Final Retail 11/7/2000 15:16:46 13055 bytes
joy.cpl: 4.08.00.0400 English Final Retail 11/7/2000 15:16:46 405504 bytes
gcdef.dll: 4.08.00.0400 English Final Retail 11/7/2000 15:16:46 528384 bytes
gchand.dll: 4.08.00.0400 English Final Retail 11/7/2000 15:16:46 6144 bytes
pid.dll: 4.08.00.0400 English Final Retail 11/7/2000 15:16:46 40960 bytes
gameenum.sys: 4.07.00.0700 English Final Retail 9/9/1999 07:00:00 10512 bytes
hidgame.sys: 4.07.00.0700 English Final Retail 11/27/1999 07:00:00 8880 bytes
dsound.dll: 4.08.00.0400 English Final Retail 11/7/2000 15:16:46 474112 bytes
dsound3d.dll: 4.08.00.0400 English Final Retail 11/7/2000 15:16:46 1339392 bytes
dsound.vxd: 4.08.00.0400 English Final Retail 11/7/2000 15:16:46 48171 bytes
dswave.dll: 4.08.00.0400 English Final Retail 11/7/2000 15:16:46 15360 bytes
dsdmo.dll: 4.08.00.0400 English Final Retail 11/7/2000 15:16:46 176128 bytes
dsdmoprp.dll: 4.08.00.0400 English Final Retail 11/7/2000 15:16:46 478720 bytes
dmusic.dll: 4.08.00.0400 English Final Retail 11/7/2000 15:16:46 110592 bytes
dmusic16.dll: 4.08.00.0400 English Final Retail 11/7/2000 15:16:46 11008 bytes
dmusic32.dll: 4.08.00.0400 English Final Retail 11/7/2000 15:16:46 28672 bytes
dmband.dll: 4.08.00.0400 English Final Retail 11/7/2000 15:16:46 25600 bytes
dmcompos.dll: 4.08.00.0400 English Final Retail 11/7/2000 15:16:46 59392 bytes
dmime.dll: 4.08.00.0400 English Final Retail 11/7/2000 15:16:46 168960 bytes
dmloader.dll: 4.08.00.0400 English Final Retail 11/7/2000 15:16:46 30720 bytes
dmstyle.dll: 4.08.00.0400 English Final Retail 11/7/2000 15:16:46 110080 bytes
dmsynth.dll: 4.08.00.0400 English Final Retail 11/7/2000 15:16:46 130048 bytes
dmscript.dll: 4.08.00.0400 English Final Retail 11/7/2000 15:16:46 78336 bytes
dx7vb.dll: 4.08.00.0400 English Final Retail 11/7/2000 15:16:46 600576 bytes
dx8vb.dll: 4.08.00.0400 English Final Retail 11/7/2000 15:16:46 1069056 bytes
amstream.dll: 6.03.01.0400 English Final Retail 11/7/2000 15:16:46 63488 bytes
devenum.dll: 6.03.01.0400 English Final Retail 11/7/2000 15:16:46 131584 bytes
dxmasf.dll: 6.04.07.1121 English Final Retail 9/21/2001 14:44:32 498448 bytes
mciqtz.drv: 4.01.96.0807 English Beta Retail 8/7/1996 02:45:56 11776 bytes
mciqtz32.dll: 6.03.01.0400 English Final Retail 11/7/2000 15:16:46 33792 bytes
mpg2splt.ax: 6.03.01.0400 English Final Retail 11/7/2000 15:16:46 141312 bytes
qcap.dll: 6.03.01.0400 English Final Retail 11/7/2000 15:16:46 248320 bytes
qdv.dll: 6.03.01.0400 English Final Retail 11/7/2000 15:16:46 272896 bytes
qdvd.dll: 6.03.01.0400 English Final Retail 11/7/2000 15:16:46 455168 bytes
quartz.dll: 6.03.01.0400 English Final Retail 11/7/2000 15:16:46 1658368 bytes
quartz.vxd: 4.00.96.0729 English Final Retail 7/29/1996 02:44:38 5676 bytes
strmdll.dll: 4.01.00.3925 English Final Retail 4/20/2001 13:14:22 251904 bytes
vidx16.dll: 0.00.00.0000 English Final Retail 11/7/2000 15:16:46 10240 bytes
iac25_32.ax: 2.00.05.0050 English Final Retail 4/23/1999 22:22:00 198656 bytes
ir41_32.ax: 4.31.16.0002 English Final Retail 4/23/1999 22:22:00 857600 bytes
ir41_qc.dll: 0.00.00.0000 English Final Retail 4/23/1999 22:22:00 135168 bytes
ir41_qcx.dll: 0.00.00.0000 English Final Retail 4/23/1999 22:22:00 352256 bytes
ir50_32.dll: 5.1026.15.0041 English Final Retail 4/23/1999 22:22:00 753664 bytes
ir50_qc.dll: 5.00.63.0038 English Final Retail 4/23/1999 22:22:00 212992 bytes
ir50_qcx.dll: 5.00.64.0038 English Final Retail 4/23/1999 22:22:00 196608 bytes
ivfsrc.ax: 5.03.02.0038 English Final Retail 4/23/1999 22:22:00 139264 bytes
mswebdvd.dll: 6.03.01.0400 English Final Retail 11/7/2000 15:16:46 375296 bytes
ks.sys: 4.90.3000.0400 English Final Retail 11/7/2000 15:16:46 117056 bytes
ksproxy.ax: 4.90.3000.0400 English Final Retail 11/7/2000 15:16:46 116224 bytes
ksuser.dll: 4.90.3000.0400 English Final Retail 11/7/2000 15:16:46 4096 bytes
stream.sys: 4.90.3000.0400 English Final Retail 11/7/2000 15:16:46 41920 bytes
mspclock.sys: 4.90.3000.0400 English Final Retail 11/7/2000 15:16:46 4800 bytes
mskssrv.sys: 4.90.3000.0400 English Final Retail 11/7/2000 15:16:46 6368 bytes
swenum.sys: 4.90.3000.0400 English Final Retail 11/7/2000 15:16:46 3456 bytes
mstee.sys: 4.90.3000.0400 English Final Retail 11/7/2000 15:16:46 4896 bytes
bdaplgin.ax: 5.01.2258.0400 English Final Retail 10/21/2000 02:21:38 13824 bytes
bdasup.sys: 5.01.2258.0400 English Final Retail 10/21/2000 02:30:16 4992 bytes
msdvbnp.ax: 6.03.01.0400 English Final Retail 10/21/2000 02:21:16 50688 bytes
psisdecd.dll: 6.03.01.0400 English Final Retail 10/21/2000 02:21:26 366080 bytes
psisrndr.ax: 6.03.01.0400 English Final Retail 10/21/2000 02:21:24 35840 bytes
ipsink.ax: 5.01.2258.0400 English Final Retail 10/21/2000 02:21:40 14336 bytes
ndisip.sys: 5.01.2258.0400 English Final Retail 10/21/2000 02:30:18 7424 bytes
mpe.sys: 5.01.2258.0400 English Final Retail 10/21/2000 02:30:18 13984 bytes
streamip.sys: 5.01.2258.0400 English Final Retail 10/21/2000 02:30:18 13664 bytes
mpg2splt.ax: 6.03.01.0400 English Final Retail 11/7/2000 15:16:46 141312 bytes
msvidctl.dll: 6.03.01.0400 English Final Retail 10/21/2000 02:22:20 465920 bytes
slip.sys: 5.01.2258.0400 English Final Retail 10/21/2000 02:30:20 10016 bytes
nabtsfec.sys: 5.01.2258.0400 English Final Retail 10/21/2000 02:30:46 86016 bytes
ccdecode.sys: 5.01.2258.0400 English Final Retail 10/21/2000 02:30:46 15264 bytes
vbisurf.ax: 5.01.2258.0400 English Final Retail 10/21/2000 02:21:52 29696 bytes
msyuv.dll: 5.01.2258.0400 English Final Retail 10/21/2000 02:30:52 14336 bytes
kstvtune.ax: 5.01.2258.0400 English Final Retail 10/21/2000 02:21:50 52736 bytes
ksxbar.ax: 5.01.2258.0400 English Final Retail 10/21/2000 02:21:48 38400 bytes
kswdmcap.ax: 5.01.2258.0400 English Final Retail 10/21/2000 02:21:56 82432 bytes
wstdecod.dll: 5.01.2258.0400 English Final Retail 10/21/2000 02:30:46 45568 bytes
msdv.sys: 4.10.2226.0400 English Final Retail 10/21/2000 02:26:06 55936 bytes

---------------
Display Devices
---------------
Card name: Xpert 128
Manufacturer: ATI Tech. - Enhanced
Chip type: Rev
DAC type:
Device ID: Enum\PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_5050&SUBSYS_00081002&REV_00\BUS_00&DEV_13&FUNC_00
Display Memory: 16.0 MB
Current Mode: 1024 x 768 (16 bit)(optimal refresh rate)
Monitor: HMD-A400
Monitor Max Res: 1600,1200
Driver Name: ATI2DRAA.DRV
Driver Version: 4.13.01.7078 (English)
DDI Version: 8 (or higher)
Driver Attributes: Final Retail
Driver Date/Size: 1/25/2001 00:05:22, 68896 bytes
Driver Certified: No
WHQL Date Stamp: n/a
VDD: *vdd,*vflatd
Mini VDD: ATI2VXAA.VXD
Mini VDD Date: , 0 bytes
Device Identifier: {D7B71EE2-1310-11CF-006C-0920A2C2C935}
Vendor ID: 0x1002
Device ID: 0x5050
SubSys ID: 0x00081002
Revision ID: 0x0000
Registry: OK
DDraw Status: Enabled
D3D Status: Enabled
AGP Status: Not Available
DDraw Test Result:
D3D Test Result:
AGP Test Result:

-------------
Sound Devices
-------------
Description: AWE64G Wave Out [220] (emulated)
Device ID: ISAPNP\CTL009E_DEV0000\00DAD5D0
Manufacturer ID: 2
Product ID: 104
Type: Emulated
Driver Name:
Driver Version:
Driver Attributes:
Driver Certified:
Date and Size:
Other Files: sb16.vxd
Driver Provider:
HW Accel Level: Emulation Only
Registry: OK
Sound Test Result:

-----------
DirectMusic
-----------
DLS Path: C:\WINDOWS\system32\drivers\gm.dls
Version: 1.00.16.0002
Ports:
Microsoft Synthesizer, Software (Not Kernel Mode), Output, DLS, Internal, Default Port
MIDI Mapper, Hardware (Not Kernel Mode), Output, No DLS, Internal
AWE64G MIDI Synth [620], Hardware (Not Kernel Mode), Output, No DLS, Internal
AWE64G MIDI Out [330], Hardware (Not Kernel Mode), Output, No DLS, External
Creative Music Synth [220], Hardware (Not Kernel Mode), Output, No DLS, Internal
AWE64G MIDI In [330], Hardware (Not Kernel Mode), Input, No DLS, External
TTS Virtual Piano In, Hardware (Not Kernel Mode), Input, No DLS, External
Registry: OK
Music Test Result: All tests were successful.

-------------
Input Devices
-------------
Poll w/ Interrupt: Yes
Registry: OK

-------------
Input Drivers
-------------
Registry Key: msjstick.drv<0000>
Active: Yes
DeviceID: ISAPNP\CTL009E_DEV0001\00DAD5D0
Matching DevID: *CTL7002
16-bit Driver: msjstick.drv
32-bit Driver: vjoyd.vxd

Registry Key: msjstick.drv<0016>
Active: No
DeviceID: CS4610\JOYSTICK\PCI&VEN_1013&DEV_6003&SUBSYS_00000000&REV_01&BUS_00&DEV_0B&FUNC_00
Matching DevID: CS4610\JOYSTICK
16-bit Driver: msjstick.drv
32-bit Driver: vjoyd.vxd cwcjoy.vxd


----------------------------
DirectPlay Service Providers
----------------------------
Serial Connection For DirectPlay - Registry: OK, File: dpmodemx.dll (4.08.00.0400)
Modem Connection For DirectPlay - Registry: OK, File: dpmodemx.dll (4.08.00.0400)
Internet TCP/IP Connection For DirectPlay - Registry: OK, File: dpwsockx.dll (4.08.00.0400)
IPX Connection For DirectPlay - Registry: OK, File: dpwsockx.dll (4.08.00.0400)
DirectPlay8 IPX Service Provider - Registry: OK, File: dpnwsock.dll (4.08.00.0400)
DirectPlay8 TCP/IP Service Provider - Registry: OK, File: dpnwsock.dll (4.08.00.0400)
DirectPlay8 Modem Service Provider - Registry: OK, File: dpnmodem.dll (4.08.00.0400)
DirectPlay8 Serial Service Provider - Registry: OK, File: dpnmodem.dll (4.08.00.0400)
DirectPlay Test Result:

-------------------------
DirectPlay Lobbyable Apps
-------------------------
Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri (DX7) - Registry: OK, ExeFile: terran.exe ()
Sid Meier's Alien Crossfire (DX7) - Registry: OK, ExeFile: axstart.exe ()
Railroad Tycoon II - The Second Century (DX7) - Registry: OK, ExeFile: RT2_TSC.EXE (1.00.00.0001)
Startopia (DX7) - Registry: OK, ExeFile: Startopia.exe (1.01.21.0000)

------------------------------------
Inactive Display Entries in Registry
------------------------------------
Card name: XPERT 98 PCI (English)
Driver: macxw4.drv
Card name: Standard Display Adapter (VGA)
Driver: vga.drv
Card name: Standard Display Adapter (VGA)
Driver: vga.drv
Card name: RAGE PRO TURBO AGP 2X (English)
Driver: ati2drae.drv

----------------------------------
Inactive Sound Entries in Registry
----------------------------------
Card name: Crystal SoundFusion(tm)
Driver: cwcmmsys.drv

And it works with other games.

[Tall_Walt]

Originally posted by Bad Ax


I think the next patch should include a change such that a unit can upgrade in a city without a barracks, but it becomes either a conscript or a regular troop, regardless of its previous level. So

Elite -> Regular
Veteran -> Regular
Regular -> Conscript
Conscript -> Conscript

This seems like it would realistically portray the soldiers' unfamiliarity with their new weapons. In gameplay terms, it improves the upgrade system while still leaving an incentive to build barracks in all or most cities.

I think you make a good proposal, but I'd like to suggest that it's too draconian: conscript and regular units are just too weak.

In terms of realism, since the number of years per turn changes in Civ, the upgrade always takes place in a period in which an equal quality unit could be sent from the nearest barracks and the old unit could be shipping back and retrained. Also, Civ is rather "low resolution" in terms of times and upgrades. Realiistically, changes happen nearly continuously as does retraining. The earliest matchlock muskets gave way to wheellock, flintlock, cartridge and ball, and full cartridge--over a couple hundred years. So the upgrade is somewhat symbolic.

As far as gameplay, first, more barracks allow more veteran units to be produced in more areas, already a strong motivator to have many barracks. But I think the fundamental issue is that this is a game and is supposed to be fun. I have no problem micromanaging a battle or a newly won city. Micromanaging upgrading units so they don't take experience penalties is not fun, IMHO. So, like automation of workers or city management, I feel it should be able to be automated without penalty.

I would suggest that automating upgrading should work like automating workers, with each unit going through the motions of returning to the nearest barracks, but it seems clear that Firaxis simply doesn't have the programming time available to implement such a feature with so many other tasks on its plate. Thus, I suggest it happen automagically to make it easy on Firaxis. It would be invisible just as transport of resources and luxuries is invisible. Civ is, after all, a high level strategic game, not a tactical game; so many things should disappear as not worthy of notice.

[Bad Ax]

Originally posted by Tall_Walt

I think you make a good proposal, but I'd like to suggest that it's too draconian: conscript and regular units are just too weak.

I disagree completely. The player makes a rational choice about building barracks in certain cities. All choices have consequences, and this is just one of them. If you don't like this upgrade pattern, then manually move your units to the cities that do have barracks and upgrade them there. If you're not too concerned about the experience loss, then roll the dice and upgrade your units on site. My proposal is simply a way to reconcile the facts that you can build the most modern unit in a city without a barracks and that you cannot upgrade a unit to the most modern form in that same city.

[Szethe]

Found a crash bug when receiving the disorder options dialog at start of turn and selecting "Give them some Entertainment". Seems consistantly recreatable from save game.

Crash to "Civilization has caused an error in CIVILIZATION3.EXE. Civilization will now exit." dialog when loading a huge map save after playing a few turns.

This seems a bug to me but I could be wrong: At peace with the Chinese, advance to next turn and Chinese offers me a peace treaty during its turn. The diplomacy dialog has only "We accept.", "No way.", and "Thats it. Goodbye." options. Seems consistantly recreatable from save game.

Never crashed under any circumstance in the prior version. Hope this helps, and pardon if these were already posted.

[PN]

Originally posted by Pythagoras


Yeah Firaxis just happens to be able to test civ3 on every windows platform with every concievable hardware combination and id all conflicts. The idea here is that bugs crop up a lot due to a lot of different reasons having to do with the specifics of peoples computers. Its hard for people to anticipate these things. Its not like developing for the playstation, where every console is virtually identical with not a lot of modification. In the PC world you got every concievable user from someone's mom running ghetto win 95 to joe-blow running XP which he's h@x0r3d and massively overclocked every thing posible. You gotta support all ends of the spectrum.

I appreciate your point about hardware combinations. However, most of the bugs claimed to be fixed in the README are logic bugs in the gameplay/AI and not fixes for display/keyboard/other hardware issues. So I don't understand why Firaxis should be asking us to confirm that they've got their logic right.

Moving on, one of Windows great strengths (compared with DOS) is that it allows developers to make their software as hardware independent as possible. Applications have (for example) a standard calling interface to a graphics card whoever manufactured it. This means that although not as easy to develop as your Playstation example, hardware compatibility problems are minimised.

As it happens I do have serious stability problems (and only with this game, 1 of 25 of my PC), which are worse since I installed the patch. I'm considering removing the patch, especially as I cannot be sure which logic bugs have really been fixed. Which is why I had my rant I suppose, because it would appear that Firaxis aren't exactly sure either

[mscha]

Originally posted by mscha (that's me!)


Thanks for your quick response!

Unfortunately, Infogrames tech support took two days to reply that they refuse to help me (since I'm in the Netherlands), and pointed me to a non-existing Dutch support site at http://www.nl.infogrames.com/ .

- Michael

Well, no thanks to Infogripes support, but I solved my problems!

If anyone has copy protection problems, and is using CursorEx, check out this thread.

- Michael

[Helvetica]

The manual says you can use Ctrl-F4 to look at the game version, (shortcuts, p. 200), but this does not seem to work??

(I was trying to verify that my patch had installed correctly, but I finally saw the version on the lower corner of the opening screen).

[cam hardy]

Once I developed Nationalism, if I try to research anything new my game crashes.

Sorry if this has been dealt with before, but its driving me crazy!

[PN]

Originally posted by Raion
...snip...
------------
DxDiag Notes
------------
DirectX Files Tab: The file mciqtz.drv is a beta version, which is unsupported and could cause problems.
...snip...
And it works with other games.

Raion,

For what it's worth I had serious problems with a beta version of a display driver a couple of months ago which only affected one game too. As you are having troubles with sound and this beta driver is sound-related I'd suggest that you try and get a non-beta update.

[NoisyMime]

lol...."Doh!"

I guess I am used to patches, like those from Blizzard, or 3DO, or actually many, many, other places, that "know" where they are supposed to install. So I just clicked right through everything.

Thanks.

Originally posted by Skanky Burns


If you installed civ3 to a different directory, then you will have to install the patch to that same directory.

Eg: if its in c:\games\civ3

then thats where the patch should be installed to.



Make sure you have the right patch!!
This was an issue with the first "version 1.16f" patch that Firaxis released. They put the wrong .exe in the patch. The one way to tell if you have the wrong patch is if the advisor lines disappear in the f4 screen (after looking at the science advisor screen or other screens)

Solution for this problem: Download the patch again. By now they all have the correct versions up. Just download, and run the patch. This will uninstall the previous patch. NOW RUN THE PATCH INSTALLER AGAIN. This will install the correct patch.

Dan was a little slow in updating Civ3.com when the patch first came out (network problems), and i got the wrong patch too.
Hopefully this will help you