How many civs will you be allowed to have in a game?

[Akron]

How many civs will you be allowed to have in a game? In Civ II, it was only 7 at max. I'm hoping for 16 or more, maybe even 25.

[Tiberius]

I think there was a poll about this issue on the Civ3 main page (www.apolyton.net/civ3), but I can't find it anymore.
Anyway, I'd like to see 16 nations.

I'd like to see a user defined number of civs maxing at about 15-20 major, and 15-20 minor.

I think you should be able to play as a minor civ from the start. Maybe a pt. bonus at the end for starting as a minor civ.

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~~~I am who I am, who I am - but who am I?~~~

[Venger]

quote: Originally posted by Akron on 05-30-2000 11:03 AM How many civs will you be allowed to have in a game? In Civ II, it was only 7 at max. I'm hoping for 16 or more, maybe even 25.

I'd tie it to map size, one civ permitted for every 1000 squares. So a 75x120 map allows up to 9 civs...

Venger

75 X 120?!? I hope we see MUCH larger maps than that

By Civ 2 tiles and units and assuming the 21-square system is still in affect, I would like to see a 200 X 300 map! Larger if possible!!

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~~~I am who I am, who I am - but who am I?~~~

[Biddles]

Venger: Agreed, tie it to map size. But it should be the maximum number of civ's tied to map size. You should be able to have less (don't know why anyone would want less, but you have to give people the option).

OrangeSfwr: I also want to see larger maps. (I want to be able to have heaps of cities in europe alone). Taking your map size and vengars rule for number of civs would mean that your 200 x 300 map would have 60 civilizations! .
That makes me happy. 28 civ's would do me fine on the largest map, but the more the better!
(Incase anybody hasn't already geussed. I want LOTS of civson the map.)




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- Biddles

"Now that our life-support systems are utilising the new Windows 2027 OS, we don't have to worry about anythi......."
Mars Colonizer Mission

[Par4]

SIZE matters!!!!!!!

hex based map

height/width/civ number max

tiny-60-120/8
small-90-180/16
medium-120-240/20
large-150-300/24
very large-210-420/32
gigantic-270-540/36

max size of scenarios 320-640
custom maps any size between 20-40-320-640

Number of civs if civ start on continents like this % of civs in game start on the continent depending on max # civs in map

asia w/ asia minor 31% or 5/16
australia 6% or 1/16
africa 18% 3/16
europe 18% 3/16
S america 18% 3/16
N america 18% 3/16

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[Tiberius]

quote: Originally posted by Venger on 05-30-2000 05:22 PM I'd tie it to map size

Well done, Venger! This is for sure the best sollution.

[rremus]

I would like to set the maximum number of civ's, but the number to varry during play. New civ's to emerge, nomadic tribes to settle and start new civ's, splits of large empires, unions of related civ's resulting a new civ (e.g kings and queens like Ferdinand of Aragon and Isabela of Castilia) etc.
A more dynamic situation, offering a greater challenge to the player.

[UltraSonix]

Just wanted to say that regardless of the amount of civs allowed on a map, there should be a huge (40-70?) amount of civs available to be used.
[This message has been edited by UltraSonix (edited May 31, 2000).]

[The Joker]

I agree with rremus. The development of civs should be much, much more dynamic than ever before (like in Mathews "Rise and Fall og Empires" EC3 idea). And there should be no difference between minor and major civs. Small civs should be able to turn into huge ones in just 200 years, only to fall back into obscurity 500 years later. Civil wars should be a constant thread, and should happend to every civ (the larger the more frequent) lots of times in every game. You should have to make real choises, like if it is best to begin a large civil war or to give 1/3 of your cities freedom.

I would like as many civs as the computer can handle. At first there should be lots of civs scattered around the globe. Most of these would be elliminated when encountering others. If large masses of land is not settled, then civs should emerge there at some point in the game, and civil wars would make empires split up civs into smaller ones.

All this, of cause, requires a much better AI than before. If the AI is as dumb as that in Civ2 then this would just end in constant war with lots of civs at the same time. In stead, civs should be less hostile, and should, if they are weak and you are very strong, join you as protectorates for protection. In modern times large civs should be ones that the weaker ones would want to allie with, making cold war situations possible.

[Akron]

60 civs! That would be cool! Wonder building would be much harder then, and thats good!

I would be saying unlimited civs depending on map size, 1000 tiles per civ sounds good, though you should be able to start with more (early game there should be LOTS of small civs, if you choose so).

I just hope that computers will be able to handle this. It sounds like a real load, even for a decent computer.

About the civil wars, I think that there should be a lot, but more in areas with large unhappiness, colonies, and conquered land. Ethnicity of the population and religion should play a part in it.

Yeah, larger maps would be cooler too, though something would have to be done for the movement of missiles and other units. A nuclear missile should not have a range of say 20 on a small map and then the same on a larger map. (Also, missile technology should be upgradeable by advances.)

Venger's solution is good. But lets take it a step further. Instead of map size, how about number of terrain squares? Assuming there is usually a good mix of all types of terrain, the system should work well under most circumstances. But again, it should be the maximum number, not minimum or the only number of civs that can be played on the map. Scenarios would negate the system so the user could put as many civs as necessary. Thoughts?

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~~~I am who I am, who I am - but who am I?~~~
"Oh, they have the Internet on computers now!"

[Tiberius]

OrangeSfwr

What's the difference between map size and number of terrain squares?

I agree, the number we talk about should be the maximum starting number of civs, which should dinamically change over the game.

Maybe it's not the right place to say this, but I'd like to see more differences between nations, not just the name and the color.

[Biddles]

map size is all squares including unproductive ocean squares. Terrain squares are land squares (maybe include coastal squares as well?).

I agree, if you play on a huge map that has 90% ocean than it would be a very tight squeeze for 60 civs.


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- Biddles

"Now that our life-support systems are utilising the new Windows 2027 OS, we don't have to worry about anythi......."
Mars Colonizer Mission

exactly Biddles. Thank's for clarifying for me

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~~~I am who I am, who I am - but who am I?~~~
"Oh, they have the Internet on computers now!"

[TheLimey]

You're gonna hit the same problem that CtP had with speed if you want... big maps AND lots of civs AND a good AI

There's no way around it... 16 civs is probably the playable max... although in 2002 you could probably up the system requirements a bit.

[MidKnight Lament]

As long as you can edit text files to increase numbers and play the game without bugs and without it getting too slow too quickly then it'll be ok. Preferably there'd be the option in-game though. With a big warning telling you not to bite more than you can swallow. Perhaps some recommended processor speeds based on how many civs and how big a map you choose.

Asking for a fast-running game with 64 civs and an AI to handle it is asking too much. It won't happen.

- MKL

[UltraSonix]

I like the idea - as long as the max civ limit can be modified by *pros* like us, and the suggested max is reasonable, the game'll be fine.

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No, in Australia we don't live with kangaroos and koalas in our backyards...

[CornMaster]

Woooo..... Slow down a little. 60 civs, 70 civs, how many colors do you think is in the color spectrum. Granted I like lots of civs and lots of challenges but lets not go overboard.

I would like to see 15 max but there should be no difference betwen minor and major civs (unless your talking about scenarios then that's a different story). And I like the idea of cities asking for freedom but not a constant civil war. How would a person be able to win a game if every time he took over a few cities he had a civil war. I mean this is just overkill.

There is room for improvement but keep it realistic.

I also think that civs shouldn't be linked to mapsize because I for one like jamming lots of civs on little islands and seeing who can do the best.

Anyway that is just my two cents.

[UltraSonix]

Good point about the colours of the civs... Maybe UV light should be used?!

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No, in Australia we don't live with kangaroos and koalas in our backyards...

Yah, than you can get a tan while you play Civ 3!! Awesome Idea UltraSonix!

I hope Civ 3 doesn't use the "color system". I don't really think Flags are appropriate either, but hopefully there can be some solution to this problem.

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~~~I am who I am, who I am - but who am I?~~~
"Oh, they have the Internet on computers now!"