Provinces - political units

[Stuff2]

I think that instead of dealing with only other countries u also have to deal with provinces.

As it is now in civ2 provinces (read cities)is dealth in only two different ways: They belong to a foreign country or they belong to you. Smac, complicates it a bit graphically and with more drones in cities not built by you, but nevertheless i suggest something totally different.

I think that instead, provinces can belong to you in more ways. U decide how much freedom a province will have, and if the province isn't satisfied with your actions it may cause you problems. There are several things that ties the province to your country. Here is some examples on what makes a province independent.

- Economic independence (they don't pay taxes to you and don't get any money from your budget either)
- Military independence (They have their own army without your control)
- Diplomatic independence (You have to deal with them via the diplomatic window)
- Scientific independence (they have there own research)
- Social independence (they have other laws but can still belong to you)

As long as u don't give a province diplomatic independence you can always change everything else (and ofcourse take the consequences) as you pleases. But once u give a province diplomatic freedom they will be just as reliable as any other civ and all your control in that province will have to be dealth with through diplomacy.

Provinces far away from the heart of your empire will be less satisfied with your ruling and maybe want more freedom.

There are some levels of independence/submission

1. dependent
2. cooperation
3. independent

FE Military cooperation means that the province will have it's own army but it's under your control.

dependent is what every province is that is totally under your control (under the control of the capitol province).

The reason why you have to give freedom to certian provinces can be:
- The people have another religion (if religions included in the social model)
- The people are poor i think that u are robbing them (which may be the truth)and may start rebellions and revolts.
- Another country wants you too.

It's most about giving away some of the control in order of not loosing all of it.
[This message has been edited by Stuff2 (edited June 13, 2000).]

[Stuff2]

I'll list every kind of relationship between the player and the province. And some of the concequences.

Economic dependent - they pay taxes as usual
Economic cooperation - Half of the tax goes to the provincial governor, you split the maintance cost.
Economic independent - No tax, no maintance cost.
Military dependent - They don't have an army of their own. If rebellions break out it's easy to handle.
Military cooperation - They have an army that is under your control. If rebellions and revolts happen this army might get a will of it's own.
Military independent. The provincial army is not under your control at all.
Diplomatic dependent - u decide any changes in how to handle the province.
Diplomatic cooperation - U decide what to do but the provincial governor may refuse. The governor may also negotiate with you.
Diplomatic independent - The provincial governor is now powerful enough to get in touch with other political leaders. Any changes in your relations has to be done with negotiations.
Scientific dependent - No explanation needed.
Scientific cooperation - They have their own research but both you and the province gets the technology.
Scientific independent - They have there own research.
Social dependent - The same rules as in the rest of your empire.
Social cooperation - They may have other rules but you decide which
Social dependent - They decide for themselves wich rules they want.

With rules I mean things like: freedom of religion, slavery, legal drugs and so on.

Any questions?

Stuff2 - very nice idea indeed. I hope Firaxis puts something like this into the game, because it's hard to say that every city is either with you or against you. And your system seems easy to use and won't disturb the game to much.

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[Par4]

I would like to see this applied to newly captured foreign cities, colonies, protectorates, and rebelious cities(ones that have rioted recently). Excuse my ignorance but I wasn't sure what you meant by provinces . Change military cooperation status to being they run their military but you support it, and pay for it. You give them planes, parts, money but it doesn't cost you your men's lives. If you quit supporting it, their budget could take a big hit and be defensely or drastically reduce effectiveness due to supply shortages.

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[UltraSonix]

Someone mentioned that the well-thought out provinces model could also link in with my colonies idea. Check it out as well.

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No, in Australia we don't live with kangaroos and koalas in our backyards...

[Stuff2]

quote: I would like to see this applied to newly captured foreign cities, colonies, protectorates, and rebelious cities(ones that have rioted recently).

I welcome any improvements on my ideas. That's why i wrote them here. Colonies is simply a newfounded distant province.

quote: Excuse my ignorance but I wasn't sure what you meant by provinces .

Provinces is simply a number of squares adjacent to each other. Unlike civ2 I don't think that provinces/cities (or whatever) should have a fixed size. Instead a province has a headquarter (not necessearaly a city/town) A tile far away from any headquarter will not be effective. Real distant tiles will not work effective. To eliminate this problem u build a headquarter. Once a headquarter is buildt you have a new province (it shouldn't be harder than that).
A province is not the same as a city (And i don't think it should be either). there can be many cities, towns and villages in a province. And there's no point in naming all of these. The square where u build the headquarters will automatically draw people to that square and often make it the biggest city in the province. I think that every square has a population. The size of this population is what determines wheter a village, town, or city will pop up on the screen.

quote: Change military cooperation status to being they run their military but you support it, and pay for it. You give them planes, parts, money but it doesn't cost you your men's lives. If you quit supporting it, their budget could take a big hit and be defensely or drastically reduce effectiveness due to supply shortages.

Hmm...good idea actually. In a way. Maybe...
I'll think about it.

[UltraSonix]

I'm not convinced that this provinces idea could work, but maybe it could be grossly simplied to just having newly captured towns not working at their full potential. So if you captured a town from a civ that really hates you then the town would not produce the full amount of shields/taxes for a few turns. But if you got a town from a guy who repects you a lot, or were given a town, then that town would work at its max.

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No, in Australia we don't live with kangaroos and koalas in our backyards...