Breakthrough Idea for Private vs. State ownership

I was just reading the "One more time: Multiple Production in one city" thread. After reading Stuff2's post, I came up with an idea. Hopefully this can be worked with and modified to fit Civ 3...

This is Stuff2's post...

quote: I hate building units. Before 1950 it's just a waste of time and after you have already won. Units should not be built with shields at all. Wonders should be built with resources from the whole civ and the rest improvements should be built with cash from whoever can afford it. There are several possible buyers: - U as the civ leader - The governors you have selected - The people that want it (corporations, and companies)

Ok, Stuff2 talks about buying Civ improvements instead of building them. This is what my idea concentrates on. City improvements (Aqueduct, Marketplace, etc.) are originally built by you, the Civ leader. After the discovery of "The Corporation", part of the city screen will be demands from Corporations wishing to build an improvement in your city. You can basically choose to let them or choose to buy it yourself (or not at all). The decision is up to you...

E.G.

quote: Trade Adviser - Corporation #1 wishes to build a bank in Dallas. Grant permission?

Yes - Bank is built in Dallas. Maintenance is covered by corporation, only 50% of the effects are felt by your civ (if it increases money intake in that city by 8 gold, you recieve 2 gold) Corruption incresaes, increased trade

No - Bank is built by you, the state. Maintenance is covered by your civs treasury. 100% of banks effects are felt. No corruption, no trade increase.
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Corporations can also offer to buy previously built improvements...

E.G.

quote: Trade Adviser - Corporation #1 wishes to buy marketplace in Dallas for 120 gold. Grant permission?

Yes - Your treasury recieves 120 gold. Maintenence is now covered by Corporation, your civ recieves 50% of the tax benefit from the marketplace. Corruption increases, trade increase.

No - Your treasury recieves no money. Marketplace acts as it always has.
No corruption increase, no trade increase.
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As for improvements that don't increase money such as a Statdium (Colleseum)

quote: Trade Adviser - Corporation #1 wishes to build a Colleseum in Rome. Grant permission?

Yes - One less in happiness ratio (Two, three with Electronics); 1/2 maintenence covered by treasury, 1/2 by Corporation.

No - Acts as a normal stadium if you decide to build one.
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or Harbor...

[

quote: Trade Adviser - Corporation #1 wishes to build harbore in Athens . Grant permission?

Yes - Harbor increases food production by 50% of state built harbor. Maintenence covered by Corporation. Trade increases, Corruption increases.

No - Harbor operates as normal. No corruption increase, no trade increase.

For the improvement "(Capitalism)", Corruption could increase, but trade would increase as well.

You could tie this idea to basically any city improvement, as long as you make the benefits of stateowned production more desirable to a government
To add, Corruption will have to be more influential in revolutions and civil war. Therefor State ownership will be more desirable for vast monarch-ruled empires, and Capitalism will be more desirable for medium sized stable democracies.

Under a democracy, corruption should not be nonexistant, it should simply cut the total corruption of any city in half. Republic - multiply corruption by 75%.

I haven't decided wether or not Science improvements should have the option of Corporation ownership, but I'm leaning towards no. Any comments on this?

Please feel free to add a possible scenario, post an idea, or constructively criticize...

*Double corruption increase under Communism for Corporation ownership. But to compensate, increased production under Communism.
**Defense improvements MUST be state owned. E.G. Coastal Fortress, City Walls, SAM, SDI, etc.

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~~~I am who I am, who I am - but who am I?~~~
"Oh, they have the Internet on computers now!"
[This message has been edited by OrangeSfwr (edited June 14, 2000).]

Excellent idea!

If in Civ3 you could build airports, ports etc. outside the city and set up air and sea routes between them, corporations could ask to fly/sail some of these routes.. They would pay you a landing fee and for fuel, but the revenues would go to them.. This would increse tourism.. If they shipped cargo, trade would increase and you could tax them as well.

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-Shiva
Email: shiva@mailops.com
Web: http://www.crosswinds.net/india/~shiva
ICQ: 17719980

Shiva - that's an excellent addition that i never thought about before. Extensive trading between Corporations introduces a whole new light to the issue of trade in Civilization.

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~~~I am who I am, who I am - but who am I?~~~
"Oh, they have the Internet on computers now!"

[Par4]

Why would they pay you for fuel anyway. I would have each airline corporation have an income. A % determined by you from that income goes to you which covers use of government airports and airspace.
Capacity could be determined with
ages of cities(old stuff people like to take pictures of ),

jobs(business travelers, moving, visiting)
size(obvious)

Transportation(hauling goods)

These factors could determine how many people fly, which could be a demographic, and thus the #people=revenue-costs=profitx%tax=your income. Its not complicated but most airlines don't pay the government for fuel, some are even given money to fly out of a city.

The whole system I like, but schools, libraries, stuff should still be ran by the government but maybe a corporation could offer to sponsor schools or colleges in a region or city. They will have a boost in revenues and thus profit and you get a boost in taxes. Its a win win deal

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[Par4]

Oh yeah, under commieism I think corporate sponsorship, if there are corps in a commie country, should be bad. The state thing should have better production, cost less, have better happiness. I mean the people want a government controlled system, they aren't going to be happy about corporations running things. Only thing that could be good is no cost although taxes will be less from the corporation.

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I use this email
(stupid cant use hotmail)
gamma_par4@hotmail.com
Don't ask for golf tips
Your game will get worse
HappyLand
There is no spoon,
But there is a knife

Par4 - Notice my * about Communism. Increased corruption with private (corporation) ownership. But to compensate, state production gets a bonus (one shield extra per square under Communism?)
Yah, I also figured Library etc. should remain government owned b/c what corporation buys a library? (besides a book binding company maybe...) But at least 1/2 of the city improvements could be Corp. owned (after Corporation advance of course). I don't want Civ 3 to be overly in depth with Corporations. They don't even have to name them as far as I'm concerned, I'd be happy with my "Corp 1, Corp 2" idea. I don't want to know who pays for gas or whatever you were going into, just how much of the city improvements they own and how it affects my treasury.

BTW: I always wondered - in your sig. why does it say "Stupid cant use hotmail"?

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~~~I am who I am, who I am - but who am I?~~~
"Oh, they have the Internet on computers now!"

[Par4]

Ok your commieism is ok.

You can't use a hotmail.com account to register, I want people to email me, no one here does though, but I can't have my email button go to gamma_par4@hotmail.com so I have it in my sig. At the Mod Asylum it does though. Come to the Mod Asylum. Click happyland link in my sig, goto forums.

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I use this email
(stupid cant use hotmail)
gamma_par4@hotmail.com
Don't ask for golf tips
Your game will get worse
HappyLand
There is no spoon,
But there is a knife

[Tiberius]

Great idea!

Having corporations in CIV would be a great improvement, especially if beyond their economic benefits they would receive some sort of political power too! (you know, lobby, etc).

I have some questions/remarks though:
1. How did you imagine the construction of a corporation owned building? (corporation building queue ???)
2. I wouldn't allow corporations in communism at all. But it's all about the SE system again. The rules you have written about communism could be applied on some kind of "free-market socialism" ( like China nowadays, for ex.). I disagree with the +1 shield/square for communism.
3. Caravans: the corporations build the caravan, establish the trade route and you receive a certain percent of their income.
4. Corporations could build tourism like buildings also (casinos, hotels, etc). This could increase your income from 2 sources: tourism money (I include here the airport/trainstation increased incomes too) and taxation.
[This message has been edited by Tiberius (edited June 15, 2000).]

[Par4]

Only members of the Communist Party have the money or can own a business in China. That's hardly free market socialism.

------------------
I use this email
(stupid cant use hotmail)
gamma_par4@hotmail.com
Don't ask for golf tips
Your game will get worse
HappyLand
There is no spoon,
But there is a knife

[rremus]

Today corporations are transnational. They operate all over the globe.
In Civ, other nations corporations may operate on your teritory. If so, part of the income from the corporation goes to you, part goes to the corporation's home civ.
Also, your corporations could decide to operate in other countries.
I think there should be a corporate income tax wich you set for the civ. This tax would compute how much gold you receive from crporate operated buildings. Lowering the tax encourages corporations to buy or product buildings. Higher taxes drives them away.
What happens if you raise the taxes and corporations decide they abandon certain buildings? I think you should loose them.
Also, corporations may bid for existing buildings or for the right errect new ones.
The game should use some AI to manage corporations, they should bid for profitable buildings. Profit determined by the type of the building, the size of the city and the current tax in the host civ. More powerful corporations could afford to bid more.
Ok lets not get carried away, is CIV, not SimCity...
But still, there might be some usefull ideas here

[rremus]

BTW, how come people is convinced that comunism should receive bonus production shields? I guess you never saw a comunist factory!

[Tiberius]

They have no idea, Remus. They saw communism only in books.
But for their defence I must say that I think the production bonus is supposed to come from the ability of the goverment to "command" the construction of things they need. Theoretically that's true. But only theoretically.

BTW, romanian settler , din ce oras esti?
[This message has been edited by Tiberius (edited June 15, 2000).]

[Tiberius]

That's right, Par4. That's why I am about this.

[rremus]

quote: Originally posted by Tiberius on 06-15-2000 01:27 AM BTW, romanian settler , din ce oras esti?

Bucuresti. Inca un an. Apoi Vancouver

[Tiberius]

quote: Bucuresti. Inca un an. Apoi Vancouver

Felicitari din Timisoara

[Par4]

I think xtra production comes from commies can't innovate easy so they mass produce, thus more units so they should get a production bonus.

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I use this email
(stupid cant use hotmail)
gamma_par4@hotmail.com
Don't ask for golf tips
Your game will get worse
HappyLand
There is no spoon,
But there is a knife

Well Tibireus and Par both summed up my reasons for giving Communism one extra production. Plus, with Stalinism and Maoism, production was increased due to a rapid change from Agriculture to industry. (E.G. Mao's failing steel, Stalin's famine due to selling food for machinery, etc.) I don't think I want to see Corp's build casinos in your cities, but I agree that there presense should increase money intake + corruption.

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~~~I am who I am, who I am - but who am I?~~~
"Oh, they have the Internet on computers now!"