MOO and Windows ME (Expanded Memory)

Jerx · December 13, 2001, 21:18

How do you get MOO to run. I have Win ME, 312k ram, and can not get expanded memory. Please help!

vmxa1 · December 14, 2001, 05:03

Go to the short cut for Orion. Right click on it and select properties. Select the tab for Memory. The pull down for EMS use 2048. Now go to Run and enter MSCONFIG. Select the tab for Config.sys and add DEVICE=C\WINDOWS\EMM386.EXE

Jerx · December 17, 2001, 22:23

Thank you for your reply.
I now get expanded memory in the properties box for orion and if I run the mem command in the MSDOS compatibility box. MOO still can not find expanded memory!

vmxa1 · December 17, 2001, 23:10

When you say you run mem in msdos comp box, are talking about using command.com to open a DOS window? If so, then that may have different properties than the one pif for Moo. I would create a short cut for command.com on the desktop. Then make its properties the same as MOO. Now open the dos window with that icon and type in MEM. If that does not show EMS, it means either no 386 processor or higher (haha), device not loaded. Enter in the dos window EMM386, this will show it as enabled or not. It should say active. It will say no mem allocated as it should be in auto mode and will only allocate when a program calls for it. If it is active you should be fine. What happens when you exec Orion.exe? On the properties for Orion, look at the MISC tab and be sure everything is checked, except the QuickEdit for the mouse.

Jerx · December 22, 2001, 03:09

Quote:

Originally posted by vmxa1
When you say you run mem in msdos comp box, are talking about using command.com to open a DOS window? If so, then that may have different properties than the one pif for Moo. I would create a short cut for command.com on the desktop. Then make its properties the same as MOO. Now open the dos window with that icon and type in MEM. If that does not show EMS, it means either no 386 processor or higher (haha), device not loaded. Enter in the dos window EMM386, this will show it as enabled or not. It should say active. It will say no mem allocated as it should be in auto mode and will only allocate when a program calls for it. If it is active you should be fine. What happens when you exec Orion.exe? On the properties for Orion, look at the MISC tab and be sure everything is checked, except the QuickEdit for the mouse.

I am confused. When I run Emm386 I get no EMS even Through I followed your earlier posts. I still get momems available. Is thos frommy Dell bios.

vmxa1 · December 22, 2001, 14:23

It is not clear to me what is the method that you are using to invoke EMM386 to run. The two most common ways are 1) open a DOS window by the BG MSDOS icon from the Start menu or command.com. 2) Start menu, Run and enter EMM386. In all cases you are in a DOS window. The properties that control the window may differ.
In the Windows Explorer go to the root of the C: drive or what ever drive you have ME install on. If you have show all files enabled you can see command.com, if not do a Find for command.com. Once you locate it right click and select create short cut. Put the short cut on the desktop. Right click on the short cut and select properties. Now set it up for memory on that tab to have 2048 EMS. Now you can open or double click the icon and get a dos window where you can enter EMM386. It should show ems unavailable and active. If it does then you have EMS enabled, if it does not say active, the config is not set up. If it is active, you can now do a CD (change directory to the MPS directory. If you have another sub directory then CD to it (CD ORION). Once you are in the same directory as Orion.exe you can type in ORION and the game should play, if you have enough conventional memory (570 appx). MEM command will show how much conventional memory available. If you installed ORION with sound off you can get by with less memory. The MEM command should show 16m for ems and 576K for conventional.
MSCONFIG config.sys tab should have at least two entries: DEVICE=HIMEM.SYS and DEVICE=EMM386.EXE where the directory is some where in your windows.

GrandSpleen · March 15, 2002, 00:24

vmxa1,
I also have these problems. I'm running Win98 (2nd) on a P3 550. Other specs'll follow if necessary. Obviously this isn't ME, but I've been getting the same messages about needing "at least 1024k of expanded memory," so I followed your steps as well.

My first problem with the steps is that under the orion.exe properties' memory tab, there's no drag-down window for the EMS. Instead, there's a message which reads "The computer is not configured for expanded memory in MS-DOS mode sessios." There's a button next to this that says Details. Clicking on it yields a pop-up alert which says, "Third-party memory management software has not been configured for expanded memory. Consult the product documentation for instructions on how to enable expanded memory." Well, it sure doesn't mean the Windows help files, and my manual is 60 miles away right now.

Setting that aside, I went on and edited the config.sys file anyway -- just in case, y'know? I added the lines DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\EMM386.EXE and DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEM.SYS. I rebooted my system, and got a message saying something akin to "XMS Manager is not present, EMM386 will not be loaded," .... well, something like that. I don't know a whole lot about this kind of stuff, but I know enough that I'm not going to screw myself over. So, I went ahead and took a look-see for this XMS file. Sure enough, I found it, so I entered DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\OPTIONS\CABS\XMSMMGR.EXE into config.sys. Well, this is NOT what was intended =) The system hung on boot (required too much memory to do this) so I had to go into safe mode and correct the config.sys in DOS.

So now I'm back to square one. I've been having a lot of nostalgia for good ol' MoO recently, and I haven't been able to play it since I got a new computer a few years ago. I've always got MoO2 to kick around, but we all know it's not the same =) Any help you could give me would be greatly appreciated. Here's hoping you're not going to say, "Sorry, it won't run on Win98, end of story." Ugh!

Take it easy,
GS

vmxa1 · March 15, 2002, 13:23

First I can say it will play in Windows 98 SE as I have been playing it on that platform since day 1 and played two days ago. I have attached a snap shoot of my properties for Orion.exe. You can see four drop down list, Conventional mem, EMS, XMS, and DPMI. You should see this regardless of the EMM386 status. If you see the one called iconprop, it is for the short cut I use to start Moo.

vmxa1 · March 15, 2002, 13:40

When you open a DOS window and enter MEM, do you see an entry line that says total ems xxxxxxx? If enter emm386 what does it report? Does it say EMS active? The first step is to get it to show EMS active. If you run msconfig and select the tab for config.sys it has to have two lines: one for HIMEM and one for EMM386. The tab for system.ini should have 386enh checked. Those need to be there before you can get ems for moo. I would add those two lines to the config tab and reboot. Then look to see if 386enh is checked. If so then open a dos window and enter emm386 and look for it being active. It will say unavailable, but that is fine. If you get this working, then go to the directory for orion. Right click on the orion exe and make a shortcut (it can be put on desktop, but I prefer to put it in the start menu). Now go to the properties for that shortcut and look for the EMS pane and the drop down list. It should be set to auto. You then set it to 2048. I have use this technic on at least 8 pc's running windows 95 through ME. If this fails, I would boot up in step mode to see if the device commands worked and it no why. If they fail due to a missing windows file, it is time to reinstall windows. These are core pieces to the operating system. Good luck.

GrandSpleen · March 17, 2002, 14:08

Ok, let's see...

When I type mem in a dos window I don't get any line saying "Total EMS ......." Here's what I do get:

Memory Type Total Used Free
------------------ -------------- ------------ ----------------------
Conventional 636k 40k 596k
Upper 0k 0k 0k
Reserved 0k 0k 0k
Extended (XMS) 65,468k ? 260,944k
------------------ ------------- -------------- ---------------------
Total Memory 66,104k ? 261,540k

Total Under 1 MB 636k 40k 596k

Largest executable program size 596k (610,720 bytes)
Largest free upper memory block 0k (0 bytes)
MS-DOS is resident in the high memory area.

-------------------
That's it. When I type emm386 I see:

Expanded memory services unavailable.

Total upper memory available . . . . . . . 0kb
Largest Upper Memory Block available . . . . . . . 0kb
Upper Memory starting address . . . . . . . . CD4A H

EMM386 Active.
------------------
That's it for that. Other things: In config.sys, Himem.sys and Emm386.sys ARE checked and they do (attempt) to load. Himem.sys loads fine, but when the computer boots up and tries to load emm386.exe, I get this message:

EMM386 not installed -- XMS Manager not present.

Being the curious individual, I tried to load the XMS Manager (xmsmmger.exe under c:\windows\options\cabs\). I get this message:

ERROR: An Extended Memory Manager is already installed. XMS Driver not installed.
---------------------
When I check out the properties of Orion.exe, and go to the memory tab, I DO see 4 pull-down menus. However, they are: Conventional memory (this has 2 menus, "Total" and "Initial Environment"), Extended (XMS) Memory, and MS-DOS protected-mode (DPMI) memory.

There's an entry for Expanded (EMS) memory, but the pull-down menu is replaced by a button which says "Details." Clicking on it yields this message:

Third-party memory-management software has not been configured for expanded memory. Consult the product documentation for instructions on how to enable expanded memory.

Finally, the entry for EMS on the memory tab also has something written in it: "The computer is not configured for expanded memory in MS-DOS sessions."
-------------------------
So, it looks like my problem is that EMS is not installed on my computer. How does one install it (preferably without reinstalling windows). Also, the message I got from xmsmmgr.exe suggets that it's conflicting with another manager. What manager could this be... how could I rectify the situation?

Thanks for all the help,
GS

vmxa1 · March 18, 2002, 00:55

Ok, it clear that there is a conflict. I would try to do CTRL-Alt-Del and see what is running after a boot. Look for any that may be a mem manager like QEMM. If you see one, stop it and go to the start up in MSCONFIG to stop it running at start up and reboot. If now are apparent, then I am not sure where to go next. One thing that can be done is to do a boot in safe mode and see if you can then get EMS, since no drivers are loaded that should do it.

GrandSpleen · March 18, 2002, 02:35

Well, crappity-crap-crap. I did what you said: I tried to shut down several devices which might have been the memory device XMS Manager was coming into conflict with. When that didn't work, I booted up in safe mode. Then I ran XMS Manager (which EMM386 says it needs) --- XMSMMGR.EXE. It ran fine. Then, I tried to run EMM386 --- the only thing I got was "EMM386 driver not installed." So, that's the problem. The driver simply isn't installed on the computer, I guess. Where can I find this? Win98 CD?
-GS

vmxa1 · March 18, 2002, 12:38

EMM386.EXE should be in the Windows directory. If not it is on the CD in a cab file. I forget the method, but the installer has a tool to search cab files.

Dwedit · March 19, 2002, 00:53

First, Windows ME doesn't process autoexec.bat and config.sys, and automaticly deletes them every time on bootup. You can get around that by using modified system files.

Second, Windows ME doesn't provide EMS memory at all. Even if you manage to hack the OS to load config.sys, it will crash automaticly if you attempt to load emm386.exe.

Suggestion: Get Windows 98, Windows 2000, or use a Windows 98 boot disk. (not a dos or windows 95 boot disk, unless it's OSR2 or greater)

vmxa1 · March 19, 2002, 12:50

I am sorry I forgot this was ME, but I did get Moo to run on ME. I pulled ME after a few weeks as I ran into to many device support issues. I can see no reason to move from Win98 Se to ME.

GrandSpleen · March 19, 2002, 15:50

No, you were correct --- I am using Win98. The original poster used ME, I guess maybe I should have started a new thread. I don't know why I can't get the silly thing to run, emm386.exe is present and all that jazz, there's just some sort of conflict I can't nail down. I'll post here if I ever figure it out.
Thanks,
GS

vmxa1 · March 19, 2002, 19:11

I hate to have something like this beat me, sorry. If you are ambitious I would try
1) look at startup in MSCONFIG and uncheck everything I did not know was a Windows job. Reboot and see what effect that had.
2) If not then I would install Windows again not add anything until I checked out EMM386. This has to be an environmental issue. I have had 8-10 PC's with win95/98/me and all ran Orion and Orion2, if they did not they would be gone. IN fact I gave my (now very old) PIII -733 to my son when I was having trouble with Heros3 (only box that every did) back when the Geforce 2 had just came out. I mean I have been running on PIV 1.7G boox with Geforce 3 for about a year and it works for both games. Good luck.

chas · April 17, 2002, 12:57

I found this on the Microsoft site for running MS-DOS programs with ems in WinME:

On the toolbar click Start , click Run , type System.ini , and then click OK.

Find the EmmExclude or NoEMSDriver statement in the [386enh] section, and then type a semicolon ( ; ) at the beginning of the line.

Save the file and then restart your computer.

NOTE : An example of an EmmExclude entry is "EMMExclude=C000-CFFF". If this does not resolve the issue, add a "ReservePageFrame=yes" statement to the [386enh] section of the System.ini file. If this does not resolve the issue, your system may have insufficient upper memory blocks available for Windows Me to provide EMS memory in Windows. Due to the removal of real mode support in Windows Me, this problem can occur even if Windows 95 or Windows 98 was able to provide EMS memory in Windows.

The whole page is (as of APR 17, 2002):
http://support.microsoft.com/default...;EN-US;q275423

I followed this and didn't have to do anything to the config.sys file.

-chas