The 'size six' strategy

[Arrian]

LaFayette,

I agree. Discussion is good, and there are no certainties yet - no one has played the game enough to have it all figured out. The question that must be debated with regards to your "size 6" strategy is opportunity cost. Most decisions in Civ (I, II, or III) boil down to opportunity cost. What is the value of building something NOW, as opposed to building 3 of it later? That sort of thing. Of course, it's not nearly so simple. Define "later." What are we building? Where? When? What does the map look like? Are we next to the mean, nasty, demanding Bismarck man or the nice, friendly Mao man (these have been my experiences with the Germans & Chinese). Here's a big one: are we or are we not industrious? After all, an industrious worker, if he is to be used for actual work, instead of poprushing, is twice as valuable as a normal worker.

And, of course, there is playstyle. I only use poprushing for my first temples. No units. Therefore, this strategy would have different applications for me than for you.

Anyway, keep on civin'

-Arrian

p.s. Very, very cool of Solo to airmail you Civ III. Kudos, Solo.

[DrSpike]

La Fayette

I have seen many of your posts in various apolyton forums, and replied to several. I guessed any frostiness was unintentional, hence the smiley face. Here's another

Say, I've been meaning to ask you for months whether "La Fayette " means anything in particular, since there is a hairdressers shop in my town with that name.

(Drspike, wondering how many amusing fake translations he can get before La Fayette spoils the game by offering the true one)

[Xin Yu]

While the original La Fayette was a stranger to me, I know that the French government sold Taiwan a stealth cruiser named 'La Fayette' several years ago. The deal was a huge scandel and the former defense minister of France is probably still under investigation for that.

Well, enough for stories. Here's the answer to your question:

------------------------------
Lafayette, marquis de


French military leader. Born to an ancient noble family of great wealth, he was a courtier at the court of Louis XVI but sought glory as a soldier. In 1777 he went to Philadelphia, was appointed a major general, became a close friend of G. Washington, and fought with distinction at the Battle of the Brandywine. He returned to France in 1779, persuaded Louis to send a 6,000-man force to aid the colonists, and returned to America in 1780 to command an army in Virginia and help win the Siege of Yorktown. Hailed as "the Hero of Two Worlds," he returned to France in 1782, became a leader of liberal aristocrats, and was elected to the Estates General in 1789. He presented the Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen to the National Assembly. Elected commander of the national guard of Paris, he sought to protect the king, favoring a constitutional monarchy. When his guards fired on a crowd of petitioners in the Champ de Mars (1791), he lost popularity and resigned his position. He commanded the army against Austria (1792), then defected to the Austrians, who held him captive until 1797. Returning to France, Lafayette became a gentleman farmer. In the Bourbon Restoration, he served in the Chamber of Deputies (1814-24) and commanded the national guard in the July Revolution (1830).

[DrSpike]

Cheers. That's what I was after, and from a civving legend as well. Incidentally I haven't found an upper limit to the amount of workers on one square in civ3 yet.

[La Fayette]

Now Xin Yu, this was a more precise reply than the one I might have given.
I must thank you on behalf of all Apolytoners who didn't know yet that La Fayette was really helpful during independance war.
This is precisely the reason why I chose that name when I started posting at Apolyton. Which better name to choose for a frenchman willing to discuss strategy with American friends?

[Xin Yu]

I only searched the web, cut and copied an encyclopedia entry. And while doing so I lost the original page (waited for a long time but the page just wouldn't show again).so I could not give credit to the original author.

[DrSpike]

Yeah I hate it when people nick my published material without asking. Incidentally I have a new strat for civ2. I shall call it the 'size 5 strategy'...............

[Augusto I]

Although the size-six system works perfectly (I've seen it), the whole idea has a problem of strategy focus. I think La Fayette or Aeseon said that growing was, in the long run, the key to victory. I could agree with that as long as is territorial expansion the growth we're talking about, but the worker factory idea clearly points to population growth.
In my opinion, your landsize is more important that your population size, as smaller cities grow faster than big ones on their own, and more land will eventually mean more resources and luxuries (and even if you already have them all, don't forget that monopoly has its advantages). Workers are OK to improve the terrain, but in order to get bigger settlers and miltary units (and cultural improvements) are much more rewarding, as they directly imply opponents weakening (if you conquer a city, they lose it; if you build a city in a certain area, they don't). On the contrary, I agree with the population storage method, but as someone siad, settlers will halve its cost.

By the way, you can turn conquered workers (less effective than your own ones, specially if you're industrious) into military units, by joining and drafting. But this won't work properly if you're at war with its nation, cause you can't draft "enemy" population, so you will get your citizen in the army and the foreigner will become a (rebel) citizen. In adition, after the discovery of Nationalism population storage stops and population "control" begins, by drafting at any city that reaches twelve and fills its food box. You will get a huge (and expensive, but by the time I reach Noationalism money is no longer a problem) army. A conscript army, true, but only until they win a combat, if they reach the front. I use them mostly as police aginst resistence and war weariness, and as a massive-don't-care-how-much-you-kill-we-still-coming kind of army

[Xin Yu]

The worker city can be easily turn into a settler city: Suppose the city has 15 shields when reaching size 8 + granary. When the city is at size 7 and half food box, build a worker in one turn. The city immediately grows back to size 7. Add the worker to the city so the city is now size 8. Build a settler in two turns and repeat. So you have a settler every 3 turns.

[JLPOWELL]

Who needs to build workers? I usually have quite a surplus but of course they are almost all captured. These have the advantage of not needing to be paid. I believe this is a design flaw, (the philosophical type not a bug) as no democracy should tolerate slave labor. I am afraid I put on my evil ruthless hat when I ‘unify’ the world in Civ3. But it is all for a good cause, because what kind of world would you end up if you let on of those silly irrational AI leaders end up running things.


“Crush your enemies…” --- Conan

[Aeson]

Slavery was a very common thing for most of human history, regardless of the government system involved. The US tolerated slavery for almost a century before the Emancipation Proclamation (1776 -1862). Even after that there wasn't anything close to equality for many minorities or women. Civ 3 allows for the freeing of "slaves", just add them to your general population, or give them back to their former nation. It isn't an issue of government, just one of morality.

[DrSpike]

Originally posted by JLPOWELL
Who needs to build workers?

Everyone. Having captured workers is good if you are militaristic, but even then you need non-captured workers for pop-booming. A worker every 2 turns say, means you grow from 6 to 12 in one of your cities immediately for a mere twelve turns of production.

[Lee Johnson]

Looks like this is plugged in the upcoming patch. From the readme:

Fixed infinite city growth exploit (involving granaries and size 6 cities).

[Aeson]

Also the ability for endlessly drafting at size 6 is gone.

[solo]

With 10 extra food, the exploit works just as effectively when going from size 12 to size 13. It will be interesting to see if the patch only dealt with the size 6 to size 7 transition.

[Aeson]

I wouldn't think that they would penalize someone for having excess food. The food box transition sizes may have been changed though. It was probably the amount of food being saved was just calculated before the city size was reduced. That would have been an easy thing to set straight without any other modifications to the game.

[Skanky Burns]

Alas, poor Size Six Strategy,
I knew you well.

[La Fayette]

When is the patch coming?
I am so acustomed to 'size 6' that it will be a new game without it.
Anyway, new challenges, all of us are running after that!

(La Fayette, saying thank you to the authors of the patch)

[La Fayette]

Tout pardonner, c'est tout comprendre.

(comprend qui peut )

[Aeson]

I don't actually speak French, I rely on Babelfish for terrible translations The quote is from "War and Peace", though the context in which it is used in the book seems to suggest it was/is a common saying.

At the mysterious edges of the western world?

[Harovan]

Farewell to a good friend. I'm not much a pop rusher and paired city strategist, but nobody filled my cities up to size 12 as fast as La Fayette's excellent exploit .

[La Fayette]

Originally posted by Aeson
At the mysterious edges of the western world?

This is the end of a poetry composed by José Maria de Heredia.
The poem is about the conquest of America by European caravels.
'...Et les vents alizés inclinaient leurs antennes
Aux bords mystérieux du monde occidental'
IMO it fits well with the login 'La Fayette'

[orion41us]

Just a thought,

You could probably use this 'Size six' stratagy to create military units using the draft junction?? Any thought... I'll have to try this out in my game.

[DrSpike]

Size six is no longer applicable with the current patch.