Wonder movies.Why no more?

Gunter · December 17, 2001, 08:17

I suggest to post (like preferred civ or preferred UU) a survey regarding wonder movies' come back.I suggest to post thousands of tons of mails to Jeff asking for one of the best feature of SID MEIER CIV: WONDERS MOVIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's easy to add that marvellous historical movies instead of funny Christmas cards pictures!HEY SID (THE KING) WE WANNA HEAR YOUR VOICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Hallo

Libertarian · December 17, 2001, 08:20

No, I'm afraid it isn't.

Gunter · December 17, 2001, 08:21

What it is not?

eRAZOR · December 17, 2001, 11:16

I wouldn't hold my breath. You'd be better off waiting for another company picking up the idea and improve on the foundation of SMAC/CTP. I'm done with Firaxis.

CapTVK · December 17, 2001, 11:48

I agree Sire

"While the men of learning play with their quill pens Sire. The city defences stay as thin as parchment. BUILD CITY WALLS!!!" (Civ2 military advisor)

Yup, those advisors can still kick ass

Gunter · December 17, 2001, 12:23

Enigmatic answer for non mother tongue poster

Libertarian · December 17, 2001, 12:52

It's [NOT] easy to add that marvellous historical movies instead of funny Christmas cards pictures!

zipnar · December 17, 2001, 14:09

i miss the manhatten project music >(

zoyd · December 17, 2001, 16:10

Quote:

Originally posted by Libertarian
No, I'm afraid it isn't.

Um, WHY do you suggest that it'd be difficult to add Wonder Movies?

SMAC had 'em. Civ2 had 'em. If I'm playing Civ3 and build Hoover Dam, I can then manually go into my Civ2 directory and manually watch the good old Hoover Dam movie. That's not too difficult.

But somehow you know that it would NOT be an easy thing to do?

As a fellow Libertarian, I wonder about you sometimes...

Redstar · December 17, 2001, 16:40

just a call to an avi file. (non programmer alert!)

the hard part would be having to make the actual movies (well hard as in time, resources, money)

but if they could lift a few from civ2...

Libertarian · December 17, 2001, 17:42

Quote:

As a fellow Libertarian, I wonder about you sometimes...

What a weird thing to say. How the Noncoercion Principle has any bearing on whether producing movies is more or less difficult than drawing pictures is beyond me.

zoyd · December 17, 2001, 19:33

Quote:

Originally posted by Libertarian

What a weird thing to say. How the Noncoercion Principle has any bearing on whether producing movies is more or less difficult than drawing pictures is beyond me.

Don't overanalyze, Lib. It just seems to be a *stupid* thing to suggest it'd be difficult to add Wonder Movies. And I'm surprised by libertarians who make *stupid* comments.

sophist · December 17, 2001, 20:29

Quote:

Originally posted by zoyd

Don't overanalyze, Lib. It just seems to be a *stupid* thing to suggest it'd be difficult to add Wonder Movies. And I'm surprised by libertarians who make *stupid* comments.

It's easy to add them. It's hard to make them. Have you ever made a movie? Making a slick 30 second digital movie takes a while. Making 20 or more of them takes a lot longer. I'd love to see that sort of thing, but there's no way it's going to get retrofitted into the game. Besides, how many of you watched the movies after the first couple times? I know I didn't.

Jeffrey Morris FIRAXIS · December 17, 2001, 20:41

Wonder movies were never part of the plan, because they take between 2-4 weeks to complete...each! For the 20+ such structures in the game (not including small wonders), it would have consumed a significant chunk of the total art time. Further, they're things that most players skip after one viewing, if that. In the end, while they're certainly fun, we felt we could get more repeated 'bang for the buck' by spending that energy elsewhere. Examples: More unit models and animations (era-ized leaders/workers/settlers/armies being prime examples), diverse backgrounds, states and eras for diplomacy heads, and culturally diverse cities and citizens. And we still delivered some stunning wonder portraits in their place.

Hope that helps.

Jeff

Libertarian · December 17, 2001, 20:48

Quote:

Originally posted by zoyd

Don't overanalyze, Lib. It just seems to be a *stupid* thing to suggest it'd be difficult to add Wonder Movies. And I'm surprised by libertarians who make *stupid* comments.

That certainly caught me off-guard.

Libertarian · December 17, 2001, 20:49

Quote:

Originally posted by Jeffrey Morris FIRAXIS
Wonder movies were never part of the plan, because they take between 2-4 weeks to complete...each! For the 20+ such structures in the game (not including small wonders), it would have consumed a significant chunk of the total art time. Further, they're things that most players skip after one viewing, if that. In the end, while they're certainly fun, we felt we could get more repeated 'bang for the buck' by spending that energy elsewhere. Examples: More unit models and animations (era-ized leaders/workers/settlers/armies being prime examples), diverse backgrounds, states and eras for diplomacy heads, and culturally diverse cities and citizens. And we still delivered some stunning wonder portraits in their place.

Hope that helps.

Jeff

Any chance you might answer the question about group movement? There've been five threads on the matter with unanimous expressions of support.

Redstar · December 17, 2001, 20:55

how about a little customization feature wherebye we could add our own movie ai?

all you would have to do is provide a hook..with like an option
to see wonder movie. If there was no file assigned, the option would be greyed out.

Not something to be done now..but maybe in future designs to cut expenses while providing the possibility.

The graphics are indeed great in this game. The only other graphic issue i have is the lack of reward for winning the game.
But then i am the kind of player who really loves cutscenes.

yin26 · December 18, 2001, 04:14

...because clearly we'd like to view the asinine 3D bobbing heads in as many ways as possible.

kailhun · December 18, 2001, 08:47

Quote:

Originally posted by Redstar
how about a little customization feature wherebye we could add our own movie ai?

all you would have to do is provide a hook..with like an option
to see wonder movie. If there was no file assigned, the option would be greyed out.

Yeah, a hook would be nice. I'd add the civ2 movies. They wouldn't cover all the wonders, but most of them.
I think I probably watched at least some of the movies in every civ 2 game I played.

Robert

Gunter · December 18, 2001, 09:49

Hi All,

First of all I want to thank a lot Jeff of Firaxis giving civ's fans the possibility to discuss with the programming team.

Regarding Wonder Movies I have a question:If they takes so much time each and players do not see them more than 20 times in a game life why don't you take an (2 minutes long) historical tv movie (capturing it with cameras) and convert to mpeg or something like this?I am almost sure this won't take more than 1 week total,merging them (why not?) with old existing improved civ2 movies.
Then you have to think about the nature of the game that is NOT an upgrade of RISIKO but it a particulary and deep experience of world simulation,so it needs that particular feeling that only veteran players know,the feeling that take CIV 1,2,3 the most beautiful strategy game ever done in last 20 years.

Cheers

Gunter · December 18, 2001, 09:51

Hi All,

First of all I want to thank a lot Jeff of Firaxis giving civ's fans the possibility to discuss with the programming team.

Regarding Wonder Movies I have a question:If they takes so much time each and players do not see them more than 20 times in a game life why don't you take an (2 minutes long) historical tv movie (capturing it with cameras) and convert to mpeg or something like this?I am almost sure this won't take more than 1 week total,merging them (why not?) with old existing improved civ2 movies.
Then you have to think about the nature of the game that is NOT an upgrade of RISIKO but it a particulary and deep experience of world simulation,so it needs that particular feeling that only veteran players know,the feeling that take CIV 1,2,3 the most beautiful game ever done in last 20 years.

Cheers

Libertarian · December 18, 2001, 10:07

There are matters of ownership.

A libertarian once again reminds someone of the concept called "property".

RichM · December 18, 2001, 10:46

I knew in advance about the wonder movies, and I agreed with the reasons for not doing them, but now I really miss them. The game is kinda dry without them. Making a wonder is rather rare in this game, you really don't get sick of them. I always watched the wonder movies in civ2. They didn't come up very often. Who told you people only watched them once? I think it provides valueable punctuation to the games progression. I also think the historical replay in this game stinks. It was done better in civ1.

eRAZOR · December 18, 2001, 11:15

Quote:

Originally posted by Gunter
Hi All,

First of all I want to thank a lot Jeff of Firaxis giving civ's fans the possibility to discuss with the programming team.

Regarding Wonder Movies I have a question:If they takes so much time each and players do not see them more than 20 times in a game life why don't you take an (2 minutes long) historical tv movie (capturing it with cameras) and convert to mpeg or something like this?I am almost sure this won't take more than 1 week total,merging them (why not?) with old existing improved civ2 movies.
Then you have to think about the nature of the game that is NOT an upgrade of RISIKO but it a particulary and deep experience of world simulation,so it needs that particular feeling that only veteran players know,the feeling that take CIV 1,2,3 the most beautiful strategy game ever done in last 20 years.

Cheers

I'd rather call this a statement - not a discussion.

Jodo Kast · December 18, 2001, 11:43

Again, who likes Civ2? I'm sick of hearing about it, it's an old game. The movies were part of Civ2, not part of the original Civ experience.

Why don't all these whiners make their own game with movies? I'm doing it right now, but I like WAR so it's a war simulation.

Please make the movies on your own time and provide them to Apolyton visitors. Other contributions have been made, and you can play them when you get a certain wonder. Sounds like fun to some I bet.

Is it worth the effort? I don't think so, imho.

Gunter · December 18, 2001, 11:57

I 'm used to build wonders to better manage war,I'm deeply militaristic.

chequita guevara · December 18, 2001, 12:20

While, at first, I agreed with the decision not to keep the Wonder movies, I too also miss them. The 2 second movies I get now leave me feeling unfulfilled. I always watched the movies in Civ2 and SMAC, especially SMAC. Those were great.

I don't care about unit animations. I don't care about goofy looking 3D heads.

But then, I've moved on to Europa Universalis II. I'll buy Civ III if and when it becomes playable.

bigredlemon · December 18, 2001, 14:04

Quote:

Originally posted by Jeffrey Morris FIRAXIS
Wonder movies were never part of the plan, because they take between 2-4 weeks to complete...each! ....... And we still delivered some stunning wonder portraits in their place.

Since you already have the 3D models, isn't it just a short step away from create a straight forward movie? Just a rotating fly-by of the 3D palace.... this shouldn't take too long.

Better yet, send me the 3D file and i'll make the movie for you! in 2 days! And i'll give you guys the copyright to the movies cuz i'm a nice guy

barefootbadass · December 18, 2001, 14:20

Quote:

Originally posted by Jodo Kast
Again, who likes Civ2? I'm sick of hearing about it, it's an old game. The movies were part of Civ2, not part of the original Civ experience.

Civ 2 is the de facto standard by which most tbs games are judged AFAIK. It was a hugely popular game(and still is). The only real innovation in SMAC was bombardment and(as I remember) mobile units retreating. Otherwise, it was sci-fi like civ 2 with customizable units(which have no place in a historically based civ game and I found exceptionally tedious, but neat, gotta love those airdrop spies

). Anyway, civ 2 had a better interface, and it was much easier to mutilate the ai in that game. Forget stack movement, if the interface in all areas(city, govenor, foreign, diplomacy, etc. could be made to work better, ahem keyboard navigation in diplomacy screens would really help things a lot). My biggest qualm with this game is how you have to use the mouse for so many things that don't inherently need it(ahem, those tiny little circle buttons).

The ai still does stupid things, but it does pleasantly surprise me from time to time. Last night it used a calvary to capture 2 of my workers, which was dumb because I got to kill the calvary for free, but it disbanded the workers because there was no way to prevent me from taking the workers back. It overestimates its advantage if it has higher attack power than the defense of a unit, I just had an elite knight on plains fortified fend off(1 hp remaining at end) 4 calvary from the ai, all were wounded, two at 1 hp and 2 and 2 hp and most attacked across a river. Go figure.

fanatic civver · December 18, 2001, 18:09

I usually had the wonder movies turned off. Once you've seen them once that was enough. I'm not fussed to see them go, but that's just my opinion.

>My biggest qualm with this game is how you have to use the
>mouse for so many things that don't inherently need it(ahem,
>those tiny little circle buttons).

All of them have a keyboard shortcut - look at the back of your manual and the patch readmes.

>civ 2 had a better interface,

I found the interface no more easier nor difficult than civ 2 or smac once I got used to it.