Real men can handle getting their tanked smashed by a warrior

[Dis]

I think some of you guys need to go back to pokeman games or Barney.

Civ3 is for real men (and with certain exceptions real women )

In fact, I want more of my tanks to be beaten by warriors and longbowman. This game is just not challenging enough. I'm going to fix it so a tank loses every battle it goes into. Tanks were really not that good in history anyways.

[Yolky]

and how many times do we watch those movies where the ground infantry or single people blow up tanks anyways. Just like it Saving Private Ryan some of the men were able to destroy or disable the tanks, so it is plausible that it can happen.

Remeber we dont know how long the battles take place. In game turns its a year so if the tank runs out of emmo the ground infantry or swordsmen can take thier time in making hole traps in the ground and sinking the tanks.

Thats my explantaion for now.

Davor

[Bad Ax]

And some day, Dissident, if you wish hard enough for it, you *can* become a real man.

Instead of just a troll.

[adaMada]

, I think the thread title is hillarious!!!!

-- adaMada

[Green Giant]

If warriors defeated tanks as much as you wish they did the pessimists would actually have a leg to stand on. Unfortunately it is quite rare.

[felder]

Originally posted by Dissident
I have noticed that you have to do several things different to change the seeding. just moving units out of order hasn't worked for me. I get the same result (yes I refuse to lose calvary to a spearman on flat ground- so I reload only if he dies- usually they retreat which is good).

I find the above quote from Dissident to be quite interesting. It can be located in the following thread.

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=36852

Man indeed. Hubba Hubba

[HalfLotus]

Real men change the stats to their liking with the editor.

[Teeba]

I don't have any problem with warriors killin' tanks - it's realistic. Matter of fact, lemme tell y'all a short tale to back up my arguement.


One day, not long ago, I woke up to the sound of my dog pacing back and forth at the foot of the bed. Groggily, still not quite awake from my long, Civ induced slumber I opened the back door and went to make some coffee. Not 20 seconds later the dog came tearing back inside almost knocking a freshly opened can of Folders out of my hands. Quickly, I stumbled over to the back door to see what had scared him. The sight that awaited me was like something out of a war movie. "Red Dawn," perhaps. That's right... tanks, and not just one, in my own backyard.

"Hey," I shouted, "what's going on out here?"

One of the top hatches opened and a man's face rose out of it, he started saying stuff like: "All your base are belong to us," and "You have no chance to survive, make your time."

"Hmm, must be a bad Japanese translation," I thought to myself. "But why would translators wanna invade my backyard?"

These thoughts were quickly shoved aside as one of the turrets started turning to aim it's deadly cannon at me. With agility and speed I never suspected I possessed, I quickly covered the ten paces between my back door and the shed. I dove for cover behind some old clay pots and gardening tools just as the shell that would've taken my life went through the back door and destroyed the front of the house.

Knowing I had to buy some time, hoping for an air strike, or a SEAL team or any damn thing I tried to talk my way out of it.

"Hey, buddy, whatcha wanna blow me up for anyways?" I yelled hopefully.
"What you say," was the reply came to me over the roar of the the tanks turning towards my inadequate cover.
"I SAID, HEY, BUDDY, WHATCHA WANNA BL--" I screamed, before I was cut off by the tank-man speaking again, this time with a megaphone.
"SOMEONE SET US UP THE BOMB." The amplified words rumbled across my flowerbed to me, and indeed, probably the whole neighborhood.

That sounded ominous. I knew I needed a daring plan if I were to survive. Suddenly, and just before the tanks were ready to fire (they weren't considering me a serious threat, therefore they were moving pretty casually. I mean, what man could take out a group of tanks - the very thought is laughable, but I digress.) A brilliant plan came to me. Victory was almost guaranteed... because, you see...
I was still holding the can opener I had used on the coffee.

Knowing I needed a good battle cry for future generations to remember along with my heroic act of bravery, I yelled, laughing manically, "Hey, beeeyyyotch, how long you stay fresh in those cans?" Okay, so it isn't up there with "We shall never surrender nor retreat," but it was the best I could come up with on short notice.

Obviously, you can make out what happened next, just from the very fact that I'm here telling you about this. I need not go into the details of the battle, but lest you think it was an easy fight, I will say that after the 6th or 7th tank, my can opener broke and I had to use my garden spade to both bludgeon the tank-men AND peel open the tanks.

Men against tanks isn't really a fair fight in the game, but I hope that whenever somebody feels the need to speak out against the combat system they will remember this story....

[Akka]

Originally posted by Teeba
I don't have any problem with warriors killin' tanks - it's realistic. Matter of fact, lemme tell y'all a short tale to back up my arguement.


One day, not long ago, I woke up to the sound of my dog pacing back and forth at the foot of the bed. Groggily, still not quite awake from my long, Civ induced slumber I opened the back door and went to make some coffee. Not 20 seconds later the dog came tearing back inside almost knocking a freshly opened can of Folders out of my hands. Quickly, I stumbled over to the back door to see what had scared him. The sight that awaited me was like something out of a war movie. "Red Dawn," perhaps. That's right... tanks, and not just one, in my own backyard.

"Hey," I shouted, "what's going on out here?"

One of the top hatches opened and a man's face rose out of it, he started saying stuff like: "All your base are belong to us," and "You have no chance to survive, make your time."

"Hmm, must be a bad Japanese translation," I thought to myself. "But why would translators wanna invade my backyard?"

These thoughts were quickly shoved aside as one of the turrets started turning to aim it's deadly cannon at me. With agility and speed I never suspected I possessed, I quickly covered the ten paces between my back door and the shed. I dove for cover behind some old clay pots and gardening tools just as the shell that would've taken my life went through the back door and destroyed the front of the house.

Knowing I had to buy some time, hoping for an air strike, or a SEAL team or any damn thing I tried to talk my way out of it.

"Hey, buddy, whatcha wanna blow me up for anyways?" I yelled hopefully.
"What you say," was the reply came to me over the roar of the the tanks turning towards my inadequate cover.
"I SAID, HEY, BUDDY, WHATCHA WANNA BL--" I screamed, before I was cut off by the tank-man speaking again, this time with a megaphone.
"SOMEONE SET US UP THE BOMB." The amplified words rumbled across my flowerbed to me, and indeed, probably the whole neighborhood.

That sounded ominous. I knew I needed a daring plan if I were to survive. Suddenly, and just before the tanks were ready to fire (they weren't considering me a serious threat, therefore they were moving pretty casually. I mean, what man could take out a group of tanks - the very thought is laughable, but I digress.) A brilliant plan came to me. Victory was almost guaranteed... because, you see...
I was still holding the can opener I had used on the coffee.

Knowing I needed a good battle cry for future generations to remember along with my heroic act of bravery, I yelled, laughing manically, "Hey, beeeyyyotch, how long you stay fresh in those cans?" Okay, so it isn't up there with "We shall never surrender nor retreat," but it was the best I could come up with on short notice.

Obviously, you can make out what happened next, just from the very fact that I'm here telling you about this. I need not go into the details of the battle, but lest you think it was an easy fight, I will say that after the 6th or 7th tank, my can opener broke and I had to use my garden spade to both bludgeon the tank-men AND peel open the tanks.

Men against tanks isn't really a fair fight in the game, but I hope that whenever somebody feels the need to speak out against the combat system they will remember this story....

[N. Machiavelli]

Originally posted by Teeba
you see...
I was still holding the can opener I had used on the coffee.

Can opener? Oh ok, so these were Soviet tanks then. Seriously though, that was funny scheiss. Remind me to tell you guys of the time where I destroyed a Chinese battleship with a bronze javelin.

[narmox]

Teeba that was just HILARIOUS! Thanks for making me laugh and making my dad look at me like I was insane :goodjob:

[LaRusso]

well playing for 6 weeks already and i still did not witness a single tank losing to a phalanx or a warrior. so is that called 'urban myth' or is my randomizer screwed?

[Grumbold]

Originally posted by LaRusso
well playing for 6 weeks already and i still did not witness a single tank losing to a phalanx or a warrior. so is that called 'urban myth' or is my randomizer screwed?

You and I must have the pre-release press beta copy before the kombat-nerfer technology was plugged in. I've never lost a tank to anything less than a fortified pikeman in a hilltop city. Take tanks into rugged terrain or narrow streets and you deserve to lose some.

[Code Monkey]

Originally posted by Grumbold


You and I must have the pre-release press beta copy before the kombat-nerfer technology was plugged in. I've never lost a tank to anything less than a fortified pikeman in a hilltop city. Take tanks into rugged terrain or narrow streets and you deserve to lose some.

I finally had a unrealistic result yesterday where a tank went down to a defending hoplite. All I could say was "Go Hoplite! You da man! "

But, while he'd gotten in a lucky shot, my next tank ran him over very nicely and produced a leader as consolation prize for me.

One quirky and entertaining result out of probably a hundred hours of game time, this is acceptable.

[rah]

It's so refreshing to see a positive (and humorous) thread in the general forum, so I thought I'd add to it.

1. I have also not seen a high frequency of tank loses to warrior battle. When I do, I think of a potential Monty Python script. A warrior jams a rock in the tanks thread stopping the tank. One by one the tank crew comes out to check to see what the problem is and are so surprised to see a man covering in fur that he's shocked when the wooden stick is rammed into his chest.

But back to reality, I have no problem with it at all. This is not CIVII where 5 tanks could conquer an entire civ in a couple of turns. If your stratagy can totally unravel because you lose a tank, then it wasn't much of a stratagy. Just like in real life, it's always best to attack with OVERWHELMING force.

2. Think back, how many of you can remember the SUPER BARBARIAN. I was playing an MP game the other night and A barb chariot was approaching one of my cities. It was only a size two city since it had just kicked out a settler. I had a vet archer and a vet phalanx forified in the city (Forest city). I also had a horseman in the city, the city was building a phalanx the next turn. The chariot marched up to the city on a mountain square and had the king with him. Not being concerned I marched the horse out of the city to capture the king when the chariot would lose and I'd get the 150 gold. I figured even if the chariot won, I would still be building a phalanx no problem. Lo and behold, the chariot takes out the phalanx without taking any damage and uses it's second movement point to take out the archer. City is destroyed so the horse, which was attached also dissappears.
After the surpise sinks in, I sent out some vet legions which the super barb quickly dispatched despite the legions being on mountains or hills. The chariot was finally in the red and moving towards my cap and started pillaging. By the time I killed it, the super barb had taken out over 10 units. I normally would have found this real humorous, but it was an MP game and that little sucker cost me quite a few resources. (and of course the king dissappeared right before I would have grabbed him)

3. REAL MEN DON"T RESET WHEN THEY LOSE A BATTLE.
I mean really, most of the people that are complaining about unrealistic combats, talk about resetting in the next sentence. Hmmmm, how realistic is that, "I didn't like that the outcome of that battle, let's reset and do the combats in another order so I win this time." Sometimes you just have to laugh.

Thanks for the posts that added humor to my morning.

RAH

[Spatzimaus]

For every time you lose a Tank to a Pikeman and get all upset, there was probably also a time when your Spearman defended his city from a bunch of Knights (done that). If you're going to reload the game to avoid one, shouldn't you do the same to avoid the other? After all, you SHOULD have lost that city...

If you don't like upsets, go into the editor, and increase hit points in the rules. Instead of 2/3/4/5, you could go 3/4/5/6, or 2/4/6/8, or whatever you want. It'll drastically reduce the chance of upsets.

[KrazyHorse]

To both dissident and Teeba.

Finally a worthwhile thread.

[Dis]

yes I have reloaded games in the past. Those were my civ2 ways. Once I realized it was too much of a pain to reload games in civ3 I stopped reloading. I only posted that when I was testing the reloading. It proved to be effective in its purpose.

I never reload games in civ3 anymore. I just let my calvary die- usually they just retreat.

[gachnar]

Okay.

I'm fighting the oh-so-nasty Babylonians with my shiny new tanks. I just got the tech and so I dont really have many of them, but I just want them to help out the main body of troops fighting already (mostly Cav/Riflemen).

They (3 tanks) get down just in time to intercept a counterattack from the Babylonians: a pikeman and 2 swordsman. Hardly a match for my invincible tanks! (insert evil laughter here). However, they are on a hill, and there is a huge mountain range they are only 2 squares from.

I have to stop them before they hit the mountains where my tanks are less than useful. So. I take two of the tanks and have them attack, the third moves to reinforce a heavily attacked city.

The first tank attacks. And loses. Odd. But, he was on a hill. At least he was mortally wounded. He wont win a second round. With some spite and the fearsome battle cry of "Remember that Tank-Unit-Thingy-That-Used-To-Be-With-Us!!!" the second unit charges the hill. This time the swordsman, probably with some tactical help from their pikeman friends, viciously slaughter the tanks.

The last tank unit, hearing of the ill news, raced back the next turn. The pikeman, somewhat healed and now promoted to Elite-Tank-Killer status (Elites have 7 hp in my mod, so he had 4). The last unit of Tank Model 1.0 attacked the wounded pikemen as they bravely stood their ground.

And then retreated with a single hitpoint. The pikemen celebrated. But above all of the cheers and yelling, was a rapid "whump, whump, whump" sound coming from the very heavens.

It was me. Tapping on the screen:

"Nooooo!!! Get in the tanks."

Epilogue: The tank was finished off by 3 swordsmen who happened across it on its way to any safe haven. It did win 2 battles before the entire company was killed. Apparently both battles were won by pushing the tanks over the enemy.

I never did figure out how the Pikemen and their protege Swordsmen did it. I might have if any units had made it back alive to say "Potatoes... ... it had something... ...to do with potatoes". I'm sure it would have been a revolutionary tank-killing technology.

But the world was denied also. Over 13 units including 7 infantry units and 4 artillery units tracked them down in the mountains and killed them all. All the artillery returned, but only 1 infantry and 1 Rifleman unit remained.

Tank Version 1.1 (now with hatches to allow soldiers inside the Tank) was instrumental in ripping Babylon into 3 parts and then destroying them utterly.

Had to. The world simply wasn't prepared for Anti-Tank-Pikeman.

[star mouse]

"Knight takes knight."

"Okaaay ... how about this? Queen to Q8 check."

"What sort of a dumb move is that? You'll lose your queen for no material return!"

"Have you never seen a queen sacrifice before? It's mate in three. You have to take my queen with your king, because it's the only way to escape check. Then I move my bishop here, check. You have to move your king to here because it's double check from the bishop and this rook. Then I move my bishop to here, and it's mate."

"Very nice. Great game, how about another?"

A sudden commotion from outside the tent dispelled all thoughts of another game from the officers' minds. A horseman, still in his riding gear and panting heavily, burst into the tent.

"Sirs! Urgent message!"

"Yes, Corporal?"

"Sir! The enemy has been sighted! There is a division of Panzer tanks heading this way!"

"How long before they arrive here?"

"We're not sure Sir. Four, maybe five days' travel."

He dismissed the Corporal, and the expression on the Colonel's face became grim. For years, he had been asked to lead armies with troops that were so outdated that he regularly saw privates carrying spears. One day he hoped to be recalled home to have his troops upgraded with the latest in Infantry gear, but whenever he asked, he was always told that no money was available because the extended war had depleted the Treasury.

Now it was do or die - his two divisions of spearmen had to face the most modern equipment the German army had in its possession. Fortunately, Colonel Sander's years of experience had taught him more than a few tricks that allowed him to get the most out of the men under his command. His inspired leadership had turned his men into battle-hardened Elite forces. If he was to lose his army, they weren't going without a fight.

The mountain road near which his troops were camped and which they were guarding was of great tactical importance. It was the only road over the rugged mountains of the Cleopatra Ranges, so any troops that wanted to cross the mountains quickly had to pass this way.

And, the Colonel reflected, mountain roads had a habit of providing nasty surprises for the unwary, especially if his men prepared the surprises....

[kailhun]

Oh great. So not only do I lose a tank, I'm not a real man either.
...
That's quite a relief actually.

Robert

[Akka]

Originally posted by rah
But back to reality, I have no problem with it at all. This is not CIVII where 5 tanks could conquer an entire civ in a couple of turns. If your stratagy can totally unravel because you lose a tank, then it wasn't much of a stratagy. Just like in real life, it's always best to attack with OVERWHELMING force.

It's perhaps just my own misconception of the world, but I consider that sending armored divisions against spearmen or pikemen is already attacking with overwhelming forces...

[Agni]

Yes it can happen.

Remember Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade? Indy stuffs a stone in the tank turret and lo and behold the tank is rendered useless. Filled with smoke. Soldirs come out of the tank. Now anyone with a sword or spear should be able to take them

I remember news from one of the wars where soldirs used to lie down in the path of tanks (patton tanks for the record) and blow themselves up when tank ran over them. The underbelly of patton tanks was not armored like the outside. This used to render the tanks useless.

[Childe Roland]

I just can't accept that a tank or infantry can lose to pikeman or hoplites or whatever! Modern units have firepower! Spearmen and pikemen don't! A tank fires from distance, and should wipe out any pikeman without a scratch! A pikeman being even in a mountain could not do anything against a tank or infantry! THIS is reality!
Zealot


Hmmm, THIS is reality? To think, all this time I thought we were discussing a game.

[Blackadder667]

Woooow you guys are probably smarter than the pentagon

[redstar1]

If we are going to continually have this realism argument why don't we try and agree some principles.

Firstly, I suggest that a warrior in the Industrial/Modern age is no longer a man with a club. Let imagine he has progressed to become say a group of civilians/or reserves armed with light weapons and trained in guerilla warfare.

Maybe a spearman can now be a small group of anti-tank soldiers armed with shoulder-holstered bazookas. (such as the German front line defenses in the cold war).

We don't have to be constricted by the images on our screens. Does it not seem silly to you that in the age of Steel and Explosives you still have a unit running around in deerskin carring a club? Lets be sensible about this. Yes, the idea of a man with a club, or indeed a spear, defeating a tank is outrageous so why not inject some imagination and it no longer seems silly. It seems like a modern-day non-frontline unit doing its job and succeeding.

As for Galleys defeating destroyers.... imagine a galley is now a squadron of fast attack craft or coastal patrol vessels with light weapons.

It's easy if you try.....

Dave

[Wrong_shui]

Real men dont dance

[Zealot]

Originally posted by rah
But back to reality, I have no problem with it at all. This is not CIVII where 5 tanks could conquer an entire civ in a couple of turns. If your stratagy can totally unravel because you lose a tank, then it wasn't much of a stratagy. Just like in real life, it's always best to attack with OVERWHELMING force.

I just can't accept that a tank or infantry can lose to pikeman or hoplites or whatever! Modern units have firepower! Spearmen and pikemen don't! A tank fires from distance, and should wipe out any pikeman without a scratch! A pikeman being even in a mountain could not do anything against a tank or infantry! THIS is reality!

I wonder how would the taliban defend themselves with pikes from the Northern Alliance or the US Marines...

[Whoha]

reversion is the only true test of manhood,warriors beating tanks are every day occurences, any lamer can deal with that :P

[Redstar]

I have relatives in Ireland. They prolly know you cause the land is so small.

Its a small world afterall....

nope, i have nothing to add to this thread except...