The Civ 3 High Council?

Comrade Dan · July 20, 2000, 01:58

How abut it? A Civ 2-esque video council - with the ministers giving BETTER advice,and changing with the governments and age.

Having Industrial factories, and all your HIGH Council in medieval garb, doesn't make sense. Or having a communist government, and the military general speaking like an American...

The Brain · July 20, 2000, 03:18

Those movies take up space.

Governments: Let's say 10 for Civ3

Time Periods: I remember 5 different ones were suggested.

Cities Styles: 4.

Movies for each ind. advisor: Let's say 15.

10x5x4x15= 3000 different movies!

Let's just keep them Americanized.

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Comrade Dan · July 20, 2000, 14:12

ok ok...keep them Americans (BUT WITH NO ACCENT!) and have certain things change - like in Civ 2, how icons represented the government (Liberty Bell for Democracy, a star for communism) should be in the movies.

Evil Capitalist · July 21, 2000, 02:34

You could always merge the military and foreign advisers, since foriegn doesn't seem to do much. Also, Elvis can go. What these two say is usually common sense.

Hasdrubal · July 21, 2000, 15:38

I don't really care whether the council's advice is always spot on or not. Apart from that being too difficult as the Brain pointed out, it doesn't really matter.
They are there for a comic relief, and that's why I love them. The civ community seems to be seperated into two: those who have all the bells and whistles turned off (council, wonder movies, throne rooms), and those for whom they are an essential part of the civperience. I belong to the latter. Here's hoping for lots of multimedia relief!

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Shadowstrike · July 21, 2000, 17:18

If they ever implement this feature, Firaxis will have to use more then one CD, or a highly packed CD. Maybe they should just have it culture based, like Asian, European, etc...

phunny pharmer · July 21, 2000, 17:43

Hmm..let's see. Supposing that Firaxis will spend another few thousand collective hours on Civ3 before it is released, how much time do you think they should devote to movies? Prioritize, everybody!!!

UltraSonix · July 21, 2000, 22:55

First of all, stuff the movies! I don't thing civ3 needs it to have a good game. And second, for the ministers to give good advice, the AI needs to be good. Basically the ministers should examine your empire like the AI is controlling and say what it would do in your place.

And if the ministers turn out to be dumb, then firaxis should remove them completely and just go back to having detailed reports. eg good economics reports, showing which area of your civ is sucking up your money, or having a list of all the buildings that cost more than 2 "dollars" to maintain. I would really love a report that breaks down all your battle history. eg "won lots of battles near now-destroyed Paris in 1782".

So I think having good reports is better than having movies of some stupid Elvis impersonators hogging up the CD.

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Evil Capitalist · July 22, 2000, 02:59

One idea could be to produce one 'international' version with American movies, and loads of 'national' with movies for the area of sale (hopefully w/o Elvis). It may put up the cost a bit, but we all know they could get a profit if it cost $80 or more just from fanatics like us.
Oh yeah, the movies should be government specific- great fascist uniforms!
[This message has been edited by Evil Capitalist (edited July 22, 2000).]

Comrade Dan · July 22, 2000, 07:42

It may help a little to know that only ONE sort of race is required (better if there were more, but thinking realistically), but that instead of recording the same info for every government and time period, have it so that the body movements are the same (for instance, if the Military Advisor raises his hand, his/her uniform would change easily - because using blue-screen technology you would be able to either show a fascist uniform or a Communist uniform!)

Short of that - very good reports, giving out important and accurate facts.

Evil Capitalist · July 22, 2000, 10:26

I don't know a lot about CD space, but...
I bought Shogun recently, and you could install over 1000Mb off of one CD, and the second CD contained over 10 minutes of movies, and lots else besides. If they used DVDs (and let's face it, by the time it's out it will probably be the norm) they could stick in a few extra movies.

raingoon · July 22, 2000, 14:23

How about this? NO COUNCIL VIDEOS!!! The council videos in Civ 2 were neither comic nor a relief.

The last thing I want is Firaxis employees dressed in togas they got at their local costume rental store "acting" their parts. It just distracts from the game and lowers the overall production value.

Par4 · July 22, 2000, 21:57

See Firaxis needs to think like Westwood

Kari Wuher

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Evil Capitalist · July 23, 2000, 03:02

quote:

Originally posted by Par4 on 07-22-2000 09:57 PM
See Firaxis needs to think like Westwood

I disagree. I played Tiberian sun as the GDI andthe end sequence was terrible! The bits with human actors were the weak points. However I like te idea of decent, fully computerised graphics (unlike most of CTP, they could have at least not reused sections of other movies.)

Evil Capitalist · July 23, 2000, 11:39

Assuming violant revolutions I would like to see revolution movies. Different for different eras and different sorts of government (eg totalitarian and democratic, I have followed the government thread).

Christantine The Great · July 23, 2000, 21:25

The High Council should be depicted in movies because remember that everybody who is buying this game is not going to be the elite, I-Know-Everything, Civ I and II owning people some of us are. (Not hinting at anybody) Some people are going to be first timers who think the name and cover look cool or the people who must own every top ten game since 1999. They won't know what a typed report saying that you should increase the money to the science bar without hurting the luxury bar is. They need a stupid looking guy in a funny costume saying "you better not touch that pal..." in the form of a movie because what better way is there to learn than by seeing. And there should be the wonderful and useful ON/OFF switch for us elite, I-Know-Everything, Civ I and II owning group we are who would rather see a boring printout telling us what we can do with our money.

BTW: If Firaxis does use movies, which I am sure they will, they should make the arguments between the council members a little hotter and stimulating.

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phunny pharmer · July 23, 2000, 23:41

Evil Capitalist: I agree. Most of the acted movies in Tiberian Sun (including GDI and Nod) were not good. However, some of the computer generated ones were interesting.

Let's face it: if Firaxis puts movies on the CD, how long will you watch them. How many times did you watch the pyramids movie? I mean, after you built the pyramids for the fourth game, didn't you just click or hit escape or just get rid of the movie? Or did you watch it every single time?

I think that movies in games are simply the effect of companies trying to improve their graphics ratings. Graphics (and thus, the movies) may make the difference between a 4 star and a 4.5 star game. Basically, I think the company would simply be pandering to a bunch of magazine writers who play the game for ten minutes. Look at the boxcover for any game, and see how many of the shots from 'gameplay' were from some sort of movie.

However, we resolute civvers (I believe that everyone in this forum must have logged over five hundred civ hours) don't care about the magazine writers. Most of us will buy civ3 because we are expecting a better AI, or better multiplayer, or better gameplay. We aren't generally looking for graphics; instead, we are looking for something useful so that we can beat up on our friends/buddies/etc.

In my opinion, I think that graphics should be one of Firaxis's lowest priority. Of course, from a business standpoint, that won't happen. However, the less time Firaxis spends on the production of new graphics and the more time Firaxis spends on other issues, the better the game will be.

CornMaster · July 24, 2000, 00:30

I thought the movies were cute for the first few months with the game and then I realized that hey.... I could play a game a lot faster if I didn't have to watch these repetive movies. Do that stupid throne room!! (Bring back the castle from Civ 1!!!) And a few other things like instant advice, tutorial help, civilopedia, hearlds, etc. The game is so much faster now, and I'm able to enjoy it more.

But, and there is always a but, first time players will have a problem getting the idea and may be turned off by it's strict gameplay without these few luxeries. I for one will turn them off as will most Apolytoner's, I think, but they should be included.

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UltraSonix · July 24, 2000, 02:08

Hehe, how about a different approach to movies altogether - get rid of most of 'em.

BUT have an alternative:
I suggested in Country and Towns that there should be !purely decroative! settlements/suburbs in the squares surrounding cities. This can be extended further so that if you "are revolting" (civ2 loved to say this dumb comment), then you see the settlements burn/look bad/riot etc. If you are building a physical-wonder/spaceship, then it'll be visible on the map, and you'll be able to see it finish. If a town is happy, you see the city decorated with banner, and tiny people being happy. Perhaps to see all this, the game will zoom in for a while (yeah! - that's a good idea - say if you build the human genome project, then the game will slowly to the city, then to the building, and the a scientist saying "Eureka!" or something - it'll look cool).

But of course, there'll be a movie for some things - like conquering you enemies.

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No, in Australia we don't live with kangaroos and koalas in our backyards...

Par4 · July 24, 2000, 02:10

OMG I was being sarcastic WW hired Kari Wuher(see hot red head) to be in RA2!!! I don't like the movies either they suck hoy!!

man you people take stuff way too literally!!

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King Par4!!

There is no spoon
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Let's kick it up a notch!!
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Fresh Soy makes Tofu so silky
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[This message has been edited by Par4 (edited July 24, 2000).]

Evil Capitalist · July 24, 2000, 02:53

Animate the city view, a la the Industry screen in Imperialism. Bustling markets, smoking factories, moving traffic. It would make the game more involving.

raingoon · July 24, 2000, 03:51

Okay, yes, there is a reason for the high council movies -- I can see them making the game easier for some of the uninitiated. But IF there be movies, let them, PLEASE, have high production value!!

Somebody mentioned the pyramids as a clip they turned off after awhile, but I'll confess. I STILL watch the pyramids movie. It has the great Egyptian-sounding ancient instrument, with a kind of reverb. IT's actually very cool and evocative.

It could be WAY better, as with the high council. If they're going to do the high council, they should at least do it right.

Tiberius · July 24, 2000, 07:52

I completely agree with UltraSonix when he's saying:

quote:

And if the ministers turn out to be dumb, then firaxis should remove them completely and just go back to having detailed reports. eg good economics reports, showing which area of your civ is sucking up your money, or having a list of all the buildings that cost more than 2 "dollars" to maintain.

First: Good reports.
Then: Wise ministers with good reports and advices (Not just that dumb "Oh, yeah!")
Necesarry: If they're going to do high council movies, they should do it right.
My wish: Beautiful, animated, 3D CityView, with awesome graphics and sound!

Generally: Make the game good, no, very-very good and fun, and AFTER THAT add some cool multimedia features.

And comm'on, in late 2001 or 2002 a game on 1 CD? It will be on DVD.

Evil Capitalist · July 24, 2000, 11:03

quote:

Originally posted by raingoon on 07-24-2000 03:51 AM
I STILL watch the pyramids movie. It has the great Egyptian-sounding ancient instrument, with a kind of reverb. IT's actually very cool and evocative.

If we;'re admtting to this sort of thing, I still watch the following: King Richard's crusade, Adam Smith's TC, JSB's Cathedral and the woman's sufferage. But I could never stand ones like the Hanging Gardens or Darwin's voyage. IMHO the best civ series movie clip was the bit of the CTP intro with the German attack, but even that could have been a lot better (More like the Red Alert intro- now that was fantastic).

DarkCloud · July 27, 2000, 13:56

Just get rid of the ministers and make the high council a COUNTRY REPORT report that looks like a newspaper such as one heading
TRADE ADVISOR REQUESTS MORE MARKETPLACES or MORE UNITS TO DEFEND CITY NEEDED, SAYS MILLITARY ADVISOR
This way you would save the space on the CD for videos.

Ari Rahikkala · July 27, 2000, 15:50

quote:

Originally posted by Evil Capitalist on 07-24-2000 02:53 AM
Animate the city view, a la the Industry screen in Imperialism. Bustling markets, smoking factories, moving traffic. It would make the game more involving.

Problems with this:

Needs a helluva lot of optimization, civers hate things that just use their time (There was a discussion about time pace at another thread recently)
Can in the worst case look like a repulsive beehive.

Onwards to my opinion about the graphics:

Keep the city view simple and make sure that it is easy and quick to see the needed information from it.
Keep the council videos, don't care of culture. Just different videos for different governments, time periods and attitudes as before. And make sure that those people give good hints, but not perfect hints so that the player knows that they are not always right and doesn't take everybody's time in MP games

.
Really, I would like to see my nazist science advisor telling about how the science proceeds well and hearing the screams on the background. And in facism the science advisor in his suit on a clinical environment.