Advances at Prince level and above

wathombe · December 22, 2001, 15:36

Morning all.

I'm new to the game, and after winning my first two Chieftan-level games easily, I jumped to Prince level for my third. I was somewhat shocked to discover that I was not offered all the advances available to me each time I selected my next advance (ie, there were advances for which I had all the prerequisites, but they were not listed as options for me to select):

--despite having already learned Alphabet and Masonry, I was not offered Mathematics on several occasions;

--despite having already learned Alphabet and Code of Laws, I was not offered Literacy on several occasions;

--despite having Construction and the Wheel, I was not offered Engineering on several occasions.

You get the idea.

Is this normal at higher levels of difficulty, or is my game malfunctioning? There's NOTHING about it in the docs that I can find, and it seems pretty freakin' important. Can anybody enlighten me?

Thanks.

wathombe

Gothmog · December 22, 2001, 17:56

That's no malfunction. It is normal for the game to not offer all possible research possibilities.

Rufus T. Firefly · December 23, 2001, 03:30

At the higher level, techs are offered in a pattern of being available twice and not available once, though not necessarily in that order. Whether they are available-available-unavailable, available-unavailable-available; or unavailable-available-available depends on the number of tech you have already researched (your starting techs don't count). For example, Monarchy is never available as a 4th tech (or a seventh, or 10th, or 13th, etc.). If you research Alphabet-Code of Laws-Ceremonial Burial, you will not be offered Monarchy on you next outing, since you'll be researching your fourth tech. But, if while researching Ceremonial Burial you also happen to get Pottery (or whatever) from a goody hut, then you will be offered Monarchy, because now it's your fifth tech, and as a fifth tech it's available.

Likewise, let's say you research Ceremonial Burial, discover Monarchy is unavailable, and decide to research Bronze Working. Then, while researching Bronze Working, you get Pottery from a goody hut and trade it to somebody for Map Making. Now, when you're done with Bronze Working, you still won't be offered Monarchy. Why? Because, having acquired 3 techs, you're now on your 7th tech, and Monarchy is again unavailable.

The exception to this rule, for some reason, is the tech that's alphabetically first on the list of choices at any time. Once you discover, say, Astronomy, it will always be a choice for research.

Credit where credit is due: all this was worked out by odeo. A link to his findings is here, though at the moment its not working for me; I don't know if it's my problem or Apolyton's.

wathombe · December 23, 2001, 04:23

Rufus and Goth,

Thanks much for the enlightenment. This wrinkle makes quite an impact on science planning--it's much more difficult if one can't count on the advance one expects!

wathombe

Ecthy · December 23, 2001, 08:21

When Minas Ithil was captured and renamed to Minas Morgul, Gothmog had long been dead. He was slain by Ecthelion in the battle of Gondolin long before

Rufus T. Firefly · December 23, 2001, 16:01

Quote:

Originally posted by wathombe
Rufus and Goth,

Thanks much for the enlightenment. This wrinkle makes quite an impact on science planning--it's much more difficult if one can't count on the advance one expects!

wathombe

Exactly, and it makes diplomacy crucial. Often, when forced to go after a "detour tech," I'll choose the one I know another civ has and that I can trade for, and thus get back on track all the sooner. Such a strategy really boosts the value of building Marco Polo's Embassy, a wonder I scarcely bothered with at lower levels.

SlowThinker · December 23, 2001, 21:20

See http://home-1.worldonline.cz/~cz0456...n/civ2plan.htm

A history note: The first person who discovered the rule at Apolyton was Oedo.

DrFell · December 24, 2001, 01:36

Quote:

Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly
The exception to this rule, for some reason, is the tech that's alphabetically first on the list of choices at any time. Once you discover, say, Astronomy, it will always be a choice for research.

The reason for this by the way is so that you don't get the awkward situation of having no techs to research - I've had only banking as a choice for example several times.

Rufus T. Firefly · December 24, 2001, 06:41

Quote:

Originally posted by DrFell

The reason for this by the way is so that you don't get the awkward situation of having no techs to research - I've had only banking as a choice for example several times.

Of course! Makes perfect sense (incidntly, with me it's always being offered only Fundamentalism, late in the game).