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Old December 25, 2001, 23:16   #1
Dis
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This game is boring
and don't tell me to leave. That is my job. I was the first one to say this to civ3-haters

I liked the game for about a month. But I haven't played in about 3 weeks. I think this means I'm bored of it. Although I have been short on time due to shopping etc...

I might play 1 or 2 times before neverwinter nights come out. But it may be possible I'm bored of TBS games.

Yet I was one of the people who were "fan boys" and "civ3 likers". What can I say? I can't seem to find a reason to play this game.

so yes I will remain on these boards. As long as a game is on my hard drive, I still consider it an "active" game. It is a game I expect possibly play in the future. I only delete games I never intend to play again (civ2 being one of those). But I do intend to play civ3 again.

But I need something fresh. I may try to do a mod on my own. I don't like too many others I have seen so far. I need to make this game "fun" again somehow.
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Old December 26, 2001, 00:38   #2
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Well. A chair had been left open for you at the table. It reads: "For Dissent ... for he shall join us."
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Old December 26, 2001, 00:59   #3
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Kind of funny when one of your biggest critics suddenly starts to agree with you...
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Old December 26, 2001, 03:12   #4
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Old December 26, 2001, 03:25   #5
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hey dammit!! you stole that from me

I was the first to use when people complained about the game.

I'm not saying the game is bad. It was good for a little while. but after all the bells and whistles wore off you have just another civ game.

in fact, I'm bored of the genre in general. maybe tbs games are dead...

P.S. I still don't think the combat system is broke. I just think you all suck . It just isn't interesting enough for me to devote my life to this game. I think I'll try to get the girlfriend I lost when I was playing the game
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Old December 26, 2001, 13:21   #6
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Dissident - I remember your "If you never plan on playing civ3 again get the **** out" thread. My post on the first page of the thread "Top 10 Fun-Killers in Civ3" was largely in response to you ... other ppl made the same type of argument there.

Anyway, I want to talk about why I think the game feels boring. I think there are a lot of fun things in Civ3, and a lot of fun decisions to make. I think the problem is that in between all of these fun things there is a TON of boring things and boring decisions to make. To get to do one fun thing, you have to do like 50 boring things.

A lot of games are like that. I think the problem is that in Civ3 the ratio of boring things to fun things is just way too high.

I think a solution should try to list out the fun things in Civ3 and the boring things. Then try to figure out some (hopefully not too complicated programming wise) ways to maximize fun things and minimize boring things.

However this is probably not going to happen because it is too much work to change the game like this ... the only hope is that something like this can happen for an expansion, since they will get money for that. However, they can get the same amount of money for just adding things and not doing fundamental reworks, so I'm not super hopeful there either.

Oh well. Maybe someone will come up with a brilliant way to cut through all the boring work to let players get to the fun stuff much faster.
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Old December 26, 2001, 15:59   #7
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You're just mad because you got your butt kicked on Deity!!! Go whine somewhere else, real men play civ3!! Neverwinter nights is for nancy boys!
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Old December 26, 2001, 21:38   #8
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You're just mad because you got your butt kicked on Deity!!! Go whine somewhere else, real men play civ3!! Neverwinter nights is for nancy boys!
"whiner," "real men" and "nancy boys" ?!? If you're going to insult people, please refrain from repeating what you hear at elementary schools.

Dissident is right. CivIII lacks replayability. This is most evident in the endgame. If you look at CivIII carefully, you'll notice that units, culture, science all basically focus on one thing. Units help you attack and take over cities. Culture helps you peacefully take cities. science gives you units and railroads to speed up expansion. Basically everything focuses on expansion. However in the endgame. there is no reason to expand your cultural border or take over a cities because any city you take will only make one shield. If the purpose in CivIII is to expand but there is no reason to expand, then there is no reason to play CivIII.
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Old December 26, 2001, 21:53   #9
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I'm bored with the game too.

But that's because it won't run on this godforsaken p2/266.

damn, damn being away from college on this accursed break, and not being with my beloved new computer, and having to end that affair, at least temporarily, to carry on with this ugly, painful, slow, stupid old computer-witch.

======

on the other hand, i don't get much chance to play it at school, so...

it's still active. i just haven't played it.

fragfests over the dorm's lan are much more entertaining, at least for short periods of time.
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Old December 26, 2001, 23:18   #10
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Yin said:

Quote:
Well. A chair had been left open for you at the table. It reads: "For Dissent ... for he shall join us."
Wrong guy. I'm already sitting at another chair. I got bored of the game about a week ago, but still check the forum hoping patches, mods or whatever make the Late game era more interesting.
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Old December 26, 2001, 23:26   #11
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I ... still check the forum hoping patches, mods or whatever make the Late game era more interesting.
Yes, as I've made clear almost from Day 1, that's precisely the chair I'm sitting in, friend.
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Old December 27, 2001, 16:50   #12
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After 6 weeks, I have to say with regret that civIII is really boring. My opinion was totaly different at first but suddenly changed when I compare it with smac.
No more to say, civIII is dead.

If you have played civI, civII, smac, ctp then your opinion cannot be the same after 100 hours playing civIII.
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Old December 27, 2001, 18:09   #13
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Old December 27, 2001, 19:27   #14
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hehe

I might play next week if I have the time. I have yet to play the game after the patch came out . Modern era still needs some work. And the game could be speeded up some. Maybe I have less attention span now. I want to finish a game in 1 day- not 3. Maybe I'll just retire before I hit the modern era- there seems no point to it. Ancient and medieval are the best times.
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Old January 4, 2002, 16:37   #15
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The problem with the game is that it gets sooooo sloooow from about the time steam power arrives on....

If they'd cut out the four-turn minimum tech research time, maybe things would move along a little better... each turn takes so long to complete, that going from Riflemen to Nukes takes about 10 times as long (in real time) as it took to go from clubs to muskets.

Of course, somebody's probably already written a mod for this, and I'm just too much of a clod to have found it on my own...
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Old January 4, 2002, 17:05   #16
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Originally posted by codemast01


If the purpose in CivIII is to expand but there is no reason to expand, then there is no reason to play CivIII.

That pretty much sums it up and that's why I've stopped playing after having the game for a month. I actually get the horrors when I think of playing this dismal excuse for a game.
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Old January 4, 2002, 17:06   #17
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hehe

I have yet to play the game after the patch came out .

The patch doesn't do anything to improve the gameplay, so it's still the same old slog.
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Old January 4, 2002, 17:53   #18
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The essential problem of the game, as stated before, is the amount of expansion that is capable of being done. The more expansion, the more workers, the more cities, the more units, the more late game lag, the more tedious micromanagement, the more same old, boring game. Now lets analyze how all of these problemes have become more frequent than compared to Civ2, at least in my opinion it has. All of these problems could be solved, or at least not as problematic, by doing three simple things.

1) It seems as if cities grow much faster than they did in Civ2. Even though, I have no actual proof that this is true, I know for fact that cities grow faster in Civ3. Yes, you can go change the food value for each terrian but it just doesn't seem right/fair that you have to make a certain terrain incapalbe of producing terrian just because the game was poorly thoughtout. The way to change the speed of city growth would be to have the food boxes be significantly larger. In turn this might actually give granaries some type of value, because granaries are worthless as is with cities growing like weeds. Basically, cities need not to grow as fast and Firaxis needs to make

2) Terrain bonuses have been so poorly that it really effects the game quite considerably. With grasslands/plains being allowed for mining it increases early game production far too much (what is the point of irrigating grassland when your cities already grow incredibly fast, so you just go ahead and mine them). [However, you can irrigate grassland and just pop out Settlers left and right without feeling much effect of population loss] With every terrain experiencing a road bonus, IIRC, it gives you such a huge gold bonus, which enables you to produce a plethora of units because you have the money to support all of those units. Jungle and desert have been made completely useless because of their poor terrain bonuses. For jungle and desert to have even some minimal value they should have been assigned a bonus resource, oasis for desert and banana for jungle. Now the latter isn't as important as the first two but if these ideas would be used a lot less micromanagement would done.

3) The AI finds it vital for it to go build a city in every piece of land as possible. Have no fears, if there is a 1 tile island of desert it will be soon be inhabitated by an AI city. I don't care how much better (I don't neccasarily think it makes the AI all that much better) it makes the AI; the constant expansion by the AI just makes the game boring. It makes you prone to expand more just so you can keep up with the AI expansion. Less stupid expansion by the AI and I think the game would be a lot better. Also, the AI needs to tone down it's strategy it has in each city of: found new city, build unit, build unit, build unit, build settler to found a new city, build unit, build unit, build unit, build a settler to found a new city, build unit, build unit, build unit, build new settler to found a new city... A much better strategy for the AI would be: found new city, build unit, build unit, build improvement, build unit, build a settler to found a new city, build unit, build improvement, build unit, build a settler to found a new city, build improvement, build unit... What I'm trying to get at is that the AI needs a little more variety in what it produces each city, some infastructure never hurt anyone you know.

Of course I can go make a few of these changes via the editor, but many people refuse to make the changes themselves for various reasons, so what are they to do? However, there are a few other changes that can't be made. The simple solution, IMO, is for Firaxis to open up their eyes and listen to the fans on what needs to be changed. I say listen to the fans because it is obvious by now that they are incompetent of making Civ3 a great game. This is not a personal shot at any Firaxis member, yet it's just to show that they don't understand the game of Civ3 very well and what would improve the game greatly. I don't think I need to explain on how those three things would solve the problems I listed earlier, but if I do need to explain please just ask, that even includes a Firaxis employee.
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Old January 4, 2002, 18:32   #19
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I agree with your disdain for the AI's impression of what makes a good city site. I tried to play Marla's map with 16 civs and the AI civs have populated every barren square of tundra they could. I can understand the AI spamming settlers to gain control of valuable land, but why does it work so hard to settle wastelands? It just contributes to the horrendous slow down in the passage of game turns.
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Old January 4, 2002, 22:50   #20
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I admit it is with some smug satisfaction I see people turning on Civ3 like a rabid dog...

I fear the core changes needed to make the game live up to it's potential are not going to be tackled by Firaxis, at least until they can charge you for it. Screw that.

I've moved on, am about to finally play some SMAC and CTP2, played Empire Earth (just what we all needed, yet ANOTHER mine build click mine build click cluster yank), and have Mechwarrior 4 and a bunch of Force Feedback crap to plug in. And a hot wife. So Civ3 is hibernating on my drive, for the forseeable future...

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Old January 4, 2002, 23:16   #21
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I admit it is with some smug satisfaction I see people turning on Civ3 like a rabid dog...
I have not enjoyed Civ3 from the beginnning. At first I couldn't get the game to work on my PC, then after a few days (not to mention many loud shouts of anger and punches on my poor desk) I got the game to work for me. I played one game and I thought it was extremely boring. I then didn't play for a few weeks until I gathered up a bunch of graphic and mod changes. I played the game with over 20 changes and I thought the game was kinda okay. I continued to play the game with my interest dwindling. Now I don't even care to play the game the least bit. It's pretty damn sad, I bought Civ2 for $15 and bought Civ3 for $50 and I got more playing out of Civ2 in the first week than I did with Civ3 in the 2+ months I've had Civ3.

If the three things I mentioned earlier would be fixed I'm sure the game would be much better, however, those three things don't have a chance of hell of being fixed. The reason for that is because Firaxis doesn't visit the zoo that is Civ3 General and Firaxis couldn't think of those three simple ideas if their life depended on it.
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However, it is difficult to believe that 2 times 2 does not equal 4; does that make it true? On the other hand, is it really so difficult simply to accept everything that one has been brought up on and that has gradually struck deep roots – what is considered truth in the circle of moreover, really comforts and elevates man? Is that more difficult than to strike new paths, fighting the habitual, experiencing the insecurity of independence and the frequent wavering of one’s feelings and even one’s conscience, proceeding often without any consolation, but ever with the eternal goal of the true, the beautiful, and the good? - F.N.
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Old January 4, 2002, 23:17   #22
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And a hot wife.
So does that mean you finally married your pretty, little blow-up doll?
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However, it is difficult to believe that 2 times 2 does not equal 4; does that make it true? On the other hand, is it really so difficult simply to accept everything that one has been brought up on and that has gradually struck deep roots – what is considered truth in the circle of moreover, really comforts and elevates man? Is that more difficult than to strike new paths, fighting the habitual, experiencing the insecurity of independence and the frequent wavering of one’s feelings and even one’s conscience, proceeding often without any consolation, but ever with the eternal goal of the true, the beautiful, and the good? - F.N.
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Old January 5, 2002, 02:00   #23
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Wow, the natives are restless. I'll provide a dissenting opinion:

I, for one, still enjoy the game quite a bit. I am also entertained by the number of people who have put it aside, yet continue to peruse the forums (and in many cases, badmouth the company).

Amazing.

(And btw, Neverwinter Nights looks to be sweet!)
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Old January 5, 2002, 02:59   #24
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I am also entertained by the number of people who have put it aside, yet continue to peruse the forums (and in many cases, badmouth the company).
It's called internet addiction darth....

*sips some more coffee*

Not that I'm addicted, or anything.
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Old January 5, 2002, 03:26   #25
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It's called internet addiction darth....

*sips some more coffee*

Not that I'm addicted, or anything.
I'm not addicted either and I mean that.
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Old January 5, 2002, 04:21   #26
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Originally posted by David Murray


It's called internet addiction darth....

*sips some more coffee*

Not that I'm addicted, or anything.
Yeah, I managed to pull myself away from my umpteenth viewing of Shrek, and here I am.
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Old January 5, 2002, 08:03   #27
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Hmm, my post(s) in this thread seems to have dissappeared. Imagine that.
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Old January 5, 2002, 08:20   #28
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I admit that I have rather lost interest in the game as-is, but it is salvagable. Here is what I think needs to be done:

1) Editor needs to achieve the same degree of mod/scenario capability as existed in the final iteration of Civ2 (TOT).

2) At least the option (via the editor) for bombardment to kill units and for modern units to shoot back when being bombed by aircraft - ideal would be editor a check block for each individual unit for "can be killed by bombardment" and an "air defense" factor which (if non zero - pre-20th Century units would be 0) would be used to shoot back at bombarding aircraft each round in which the aircraft is bombing it.

3) Individual maintenance cost per unit - the cost to maintain a mechanized infantry division and a legion are simply not the same. In fact, the cost to maintain a "first world" mechanized infantry division and a low-tech "3rd world" non-mechanized infantry division are not the same. Wealth per capita in Civ3 goes up constantly, so equal maintenance cost for all units means the number of units supported per capita keeps going up. In real life, the cost of military maintenance goes up faster than per capita wealth (at least since WWII, maybe longer) so the number of units you can support per capita goes down. This should fix the "too many units in late game" problem.

4) Hard borders - instead of the system where the AI violates your borders and you *****, repeat, finally you get to give them an ultimatum (by which time they are closer to the far side of your territory than to their own so accepting your ultimatum just speeds them on their way to found a city in your rear), it should simply require a declaration of war before you can move into any land tile in someone else's territory (the current system is fine for water tiles). If a war ends, any units land tiles in the former-enemies territory should be transported to the nearest tile owned by their nation or one with which which they have a right of passage agreement. This should address part of the problem with the AI colonizing too agressively.

5) No tile already in some civ's borders should change ownership to another civ except in conjunction with a city changing ownership (or being destroyed).

6) In deciding to build cities, the AI should place a priority on sites where the borders can be readily expanded to connect with its existing territory, and should place a priority on building culteral improvements in new cities until that has happened. Conversely, the AI should avoid placing cities where part of the usable 2-tile radius is already in the borders of another civ (see #5) except to claim resource squares. This should fix another part of the AI colonization problem.

7) The AI should absolutely never found a city in a location which cannot be readily connected (borderwise, not necessarily by road/railroad) to its capital unless it is a coastal site or can readily be connected to an existing port AND the capitial is either a port or connected to one. This should fix the last bit of the AI colonization problem.

8) All units which become obsolete should have an upgrade path to one which does not, and the AI should place a higher priority on upgrading obsolete units than on building new ones (building wealth instead of new units in any city already garrisoned until it has upgraded all existing obsolete units if this is needed to raise the cash for upgrading). To prevent the building of obsolete units due to lack of resources, there should be a cheap no-resource unit in each era which it could build without them and/or it should be possible to build a unit without the resources at greatly increased cost and maintence on units you lack resources for should be increased by the same factor.

I could think of a lot of really big changes to improve the game, but the above I think are rather small (codingwise) and would address most of my current major gripes that I can't fix for myself via the editor.

One more to throw out there which is big is a change to the way culture causes cities to defect. I would like to see it no longer happen the way it does. Rather, if a foriegn city is being influenced by your culture it would have a chance of a citizen converting to your culture. Citizens "on the wrong side of the border" would cause unhappiness. In addition to civil disorder (or perhaps as a random possible consequence of civil disorder), a city on the border of the cive which owns it could rebel. If the dominant culture in a rebel city is a civ which has already been destroyed, that civ is revived. Otherwise, a rebel city would become independent with some generic leader based on the dominant culture in it (non-historical with vanilla names like "Smith" or whatever from the appropriate culture), and be able to build any unit its mother-civ (the one it rebelled from) could build, and effectively act like a 1-city civ (using the city name as the civ name). Rebel civs whose borders adjoin might merge if both have the same dominant culture, but not automatically. Rebel civs would only colonize if there is unclaimed territory that would link with its current borders, and would not explore (they would have the map their mother-civ had when the rebellion occurred). Rebel civs would not declare war, but could be declared war upon. They would only make deals involving trade of resources, or joining a full-fledged civ (or merging with an adjacent same-culture Rebel civ - under the name of whichever was the largest before the merger). They would only consider joining the full-fledged civ whose culture is their dominant culture, and the chance of them doing so would vary by the percentage of their population which has that culture. They may initiate an offer to be annexed, or respond favorably to one. If due to foriegn cultural influence the dominant culture in a Rebel civ changes, so would its leader.
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Old January 5, 2002, 08:34   #29
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Hope springs eternal, doesn't it?
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Old January 5, 2002, 08:53   #30
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Hope springs eternal, doesn't it?
I think a more accurate description is that, as the game stands now, I'm having more fun imagining how I would change the game if I could swap jobs with Sid than I do playing it
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