Wizardry 8

Imran Siddiqui · January 8, 2002, 20:51

So, I'm a BIG fan of the Fallout series, Baldur's Gate (1 and 2), Planescape: Torment. Basically all the big Interplay ones. I heard Wizardry 8 is supposedly very nice. I DLed the demo and it seems fun, but I wonder, I know it is a lot of combat, but is there any story involved? Do you get in depth conversations? Have to decide what you want to say to the person in order to make him act in different ways? Or is it all just fighting, fighting, fighting?

And any of you that have it... would you recommend getting it?

yin26 · January 8, 2002, 20:59

With any luck, I'll be getting back to you early next week.

Imran Siddiqui · January 9, 2002, 23:06

The 'friend' again?

yin26 · January 10, 2002, 00:11

In a way. I asked a co-worker now on business in the States to pick up a copy for me if he has time. My fingers are crossed.

Urban Ranger · January 10, 2002, 05:29

Both Wizardry 6: Bane of the Cosmic Forge and Wizardry 7: Crusader of the Dark Savant are excellent RPG's with a solid story. CDS follows BCF, and Wizardry 8 is supposed to follow CDS. If so, it should have a great story too.

Imran Siddiqui · January 10, 2002, 14:09

That's good.. thanks UR.

I just wonder if there is, you know, conversational choices and non-linearity in the game, and not just combat, combat, combat!

yin26 · January 10, 2002, 20:06

By the way, I meant to ask: How did you possibly stomach the combat in Fallout 2? Lord, it just draaaaags. Good plot and all that, but the combat just killed it for me. BG, though, was rather great in that regard.

Imran Siddiqui · January 10, 2002, 21:40

I actually prefered the Fallout combat. With guns and all, a real time, pause command would have been scary! I like the pause turn by turn action point command of Fallout very much. I like the Fallout series much better than the BG one (though BG2 was on par with the Fallout games, I think).

I, for one, don't mind combat that draags, as long as there isn't too much of it

.

Urban Ranger · January 11, 2002, 10:58

Quote:

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
I just wonder if there is, you know, conversational choices and non-linearity in the game, and not just combat, combat, combat!

Went to the Sirtech website and checked. Since W8 got great reviews from both Games Domain and Gamespot, it can't be all bad

So I went out and bought it today. 3 CDs! Must have some great graphics

I can also import my old characters from W7. Kick arse

It's supposed to be totally nonlinear. There were 3 endings to W7, so I reckon there are at least these many to W8.

Imran Siddiqui · January 11, 2002, 16:35

Cool! Many CDs... mmmm

I finished the demo, and I really did like it. Actually had a conversation too, and I liked the text parser. It was actually very interesting, kind of fantasy based, but with mechanized technology stuff in the middle. Wierd.

Urban Ranger · January 11, 2002, 23:41

Yes, it has modern technology mixed with magic. There's a class of characters called "gadgeteer," which allows you to "merge items into gadgets."

That's rather neat.

Urban Ranger · January 14, 2002, 12:26

I bought the game yesterday. Installed the game and applied the latest patch. You'll need at least 1.2 GB free HDD space - 1.8GB for a full install.

First hint: CD#3 is required to play the game, not the first one. Strange, particularly the autorun offers a player the option of play. It then tries to load the game which will fail, confusing people to no end.

The graphics are very good, and the game is also very good so far.

yin26 · January 14, 2002, 20:35

Cool! Keep us updated. My co-worker said he went into some computer shop in the mall but couldn't find the game. Damn!

So I'll have to wait until March, when I head out to visit the family.

General Ludd · January 14, 2002, 23:10

Granted, I haven't played it much...

But I am no fan of the race/class choices and the story (atleast, the intro) both seem quite cheesy to me. The other thing that really bugs me is the first person view and awkward and slow combat - especially when you are playing 6 character out of one set of eyes. Not a very good roleplaying atmosphere for me, not at all. Maybe it's an OK adventure game, though.

yin26 · January 15, 2002, 00:15

Yes, it's a deliberate 'old school' approach with a twist. If you grew up playing Bard's Tale and, more recently, the Might and Magic stuff, then Wiz 8 is a Godsend.

Urban Ranger · January 15, 2002, 04:38

Osweld,

Some of the reasons are historical. Wizardry started life a long time ago, about the same time as Ultima - that's at least 20 years. Some races and professions are vintage, legacy from the first game, the rest from W6: Bane of the Cosmic Forge, appeared at least 10 years ago.

I personally have no problems with the races, and your characters can change professions as long as they satisfy the basic requirements of any given professions. Since your characters gain attribute points as they gain level, so that's not a problem.

As for the story, you have to release that W8 is the last of the trilogy started with W6. For long time veterans like myself, it sounds fine. Even if you don't like the story, the game itself is quite nicely balanced, as far as I can tell.

Quote:

The other thing that really bugs me is the first person view and awkward and slow combat - especially when you are playing 6 character out of one set of eyes.

The first person view is fine. Remember RPG's should tell stories, and most stories (novels) are told through one set of eyes, be it first or third person. It may take some getting used to.

What kind of combat are you thinking of?

General Ludd · January 15, 2002, 09:37

Quote:

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
The first person view is fine. Remember RPG's should tell stories, and most stories (novels) are told through one set of eyes, be it first or third person. It may take some getting used to.

I wouldn't mind first person view if I had only 1 character, but the 6 characters are crammed into the same set of eyes - and you can't so much as see them. That along with out knowing anything about the history, or setting - or even being able to write biographies really wrecks the characters for me, it's just a ranger, fighter ect... infact, that's even what they indicate the character with, the class.

Reminds me of the old days, when I was a munchkin. I'd played D&D cRPGs with characters who's name would be "Fighter 1" "Fighter 2" "Cleric 1" Ect...

Quote:

What kind of combat are you thinking of?

I don't know how you could do it in a first person atmosphere- but the one they use is very slow (waiting for all of the monsters to move seperately) and very awkward (abstract player formations, and the entire party has to move together as some sort of clump)

Oh, and RPGs shouldn't tell stories, they should allow you to create stories - otherwise it's just an adventure game. Granted, that isn't always easy to do on the computer, so atleast a game can have alot of openess and pathways through a linear plot... like the Bhaal Spawn series. But I haven't played wizardy 8 much, so I don't know if that is the case or not.

Urban Ranger · January 16, 2002, 05:57

Quote:

Originally posted by Osweld
I wouldn't mind first person view if I had only 1 character, but the 6 characters are crammed into the same set of eyes - and you can't so much as see them.

How do you think this should be represented? There are real physical limitations, that you are seeing into this world through your monitor, which is an awfully limited window. If you are going to divide up the display area further you aren't going to see anything.

Quote:

Originally posted by Osweld
That along with out knowing anything about the history, or setting - or even being able to write biographies really wrecks the characters for me, it's just a ranger, fighter ect... infact, that's even what they indicate the character with, the class.

That's because you didn't start the trilogy at the beginning

You'll miss out a lot of the story. I am not sure but the website may have the background info you want.

My characters harked all the way from Bane of the Cosmic Forge.

Quote:

Originally posted by Osweld
Reminds me of the old days, when I was a munchkin. I'd played D&D cRPGs with characters who's name would be "Fighter 1" "Fighter 2" "Cleric 1" Ect...

I had seen that.

Quote:

Originally posted by Osweld
I don't know how you could do it in a first person atmosphere- but the one they use is very slow (waiting for all of the monsters to move seperately) and very awkward (abstract player formations, and the entire party has to move together as some sort of clump)

You can change formation in the middle of combat so that's not a big problem that your characters can't move individually like you can with paper and pencil RPG games.

Monsters moving individually seems to be a reasonable decision to me. You can always upgrade your computer so they move faster

Quote:

Originally posted by Osweld
Oh, and RPGs shouldn't tell stories, they should allow you to create stories - otherwise it's just an adventure game.

RPGs and adventure games aren't that distinct. In fact, a lot of games have elements of both.

Quote:

Originally posted by Osweld
Granted, that isn't always easy to do on the computer, so atleast a game can have alot of openess and pathways through a linear plot... like the Bhaal Spawn series. But I haven't played wizardy 8 much, so I don't know if that is the case or not.

It's supposed to be completely non-linear with multiple beginnings and endings.

Imran Siddiqui · January 16, 2002, 22:15

Quote:

I wouldn't mind first person view if I had only 1 character, but the 6 characters are crammed into the same set of eyes - and you can't so much as see them. That along with out knowing anything about the history, or setting - or even being able to write biographies really wrecks the characters for me, it's just a ranger, fighter ect... infact, that's even what they indicate the character with, the class.

Yeah, same as I thought. I read this review on it where it brought up this point, saying in a multi party game, the isometric view of Baldur's Gate and Fallout were the best, and the first person view is best if you have one player.

Urban Ranger · January 17, 2002, 01:47

Quote:

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Yeah, same as I thought. I read this review on it where it brought up this point, saying in a multi party game, the isometric view of Baldur's Gate and Fallout were the best, and the first person view is best if you have one player.

That's just subjective. Both have advantages and drawbacks.

Any "aerial" view (this includes isometric view) is problematic when the party is in a dungeon. There's also the problem of not being able to see far enough with these views so the party can easily be rushed by monsters. This is a problem shared by some old arcade games, particularly driving games.

Urban Ranger · January 18, 2002, 06:19

The monsters are a lot smarter in this game.

First of all, they will try to surround your party instead of line up in a straight line

Secondly, if they are blinded, etc., they'll retreat until the condition is lifted.

yin26 · January 23, 2002, 20:19

Well, I broke down and had the game delivered.

I guess I couldn't wait until April to play. I hardly had time to even just mess with character creation and so forth, but I like very much the interface and super clean graphics. It seems they put a premium on making the game comfortable and easy to use and look at.

I only played about 10 minutes of the start of the game (now I'll start over with my own characters), but it brings back so many good memories! Sure, Ultima 9 had much better graphics -- once you got them to work properly -- but there's just something great about W8's 'old school' top-quality approach.

Urban Ranger · January 23, 2002, 23:44

How's work at the university? Not too taxing I gathered

I just don't like the way they changed how characters change professions

yin26 · January 23, 2002, 23:59

Thanks for asking.

I start a new job in April, at which point my gaming time will plummet ... along with posting time. Poly rejoice!

Regarding changing professions, I haven't played hardly enough to even know where to start.

Urban Ranger · January 28, 2002, 06:02

How's your progress in the game so far?

yin26 · January 28, 2002, 20:35

I just finished the Lower Monastery ... as you can tell, I'm taking my time.

I'm still getting used to the combat model, but I think I have it figured out now and have a good formation in order. I'm happy to note that the use of magic is fairly important in stunning or paralyzing enemies, etc. Adds some nice strategy.

Urban Ranger · January 29, 2002, 01:49

Take your time. The controls are decent but not top rated, so you need to get use to them.

There are things that could have been done to make controlling combat so much easier. Small things. For example, make walking the default setting with a button for running. Another example, if the party has killed the first target, the program can interrupt the execution and ask you to retarget your remaining attacks instead of doing it automatically.

Grumbold · January 30, 2002, 14:52

I love the game. The plot is detailed but it is the different character voices that I think really make it work. Every single one of them have different things to say in different situations, some triggered uniquely by specific NPC's or encounters. Unlike the BG games where I got sick of endless "buttkicking for goodness" and Boo repetitions, in Wizardry it actually works. Especially the comments that come out when things go wrong. Many of them are genuinely funny in a way that I've not seen for years.

Urban Ranger · January 31, 2002, 03:47

Yeah, some of the voice overs are funny, various PCs and NPCs have distinct personalities.

My elf bishop would say, "Shoo, shoo, go away!" when he spots monsters.

paulmagusnet · February 2, 2002, 07:43

I remember when wizardry was a dos game and I thought a mouse was something cats ate.

You really like Baulders Gate? Eccch, it forces you to do everything as the programmers wanted to make sure you see Everything they wrote. It was just horribly constraining. Gender is an asthetic choice, really, so pc. So many things are just immune to anything you do and give you no choice but to follow the 'story' line. The additions are even worse, there is more program control of your direction and many more entities that are simply immune to anything you can do. Basiclally it is an animated book with some RPG elements.

Wizardry 8 is available here but only in Russian, which even at only 100rubles isn't worth tyring to dicypher.