Wizardry 8

[Imran Siddiqui]

I liked the story of Baldur's Gate... it was great fun. No Planescape: Torment, but then again, no RPG can come close in story. Some RPGs I play for the story (well all of them MUST have a good story), others I play so I can do whatever I want (which is why I'm getting Morrowind).

I knew BG was going to be fairly linear in terms of story (and non-linear in side quests).

[Pembleton]

Wizardry 8 was good. Most people who have played it loved it. They call it a "throw-back" and "old-school".

One of my problems is that certain characters, like the Bard, are overpowered, and thus hampers the replay value for me.

But the graphics are good, the levelling/skill system is excellent, and it's a lot of hack and slash but with a good amount of tactics, and the story is minimal. One standout feature: The fighters are the best units in the game, and the magic-users are necessary but never become almighty toward the end, like in so many other RPGs.

It's also relatively difficult (note *relative*, difficulty is different for different people), and those who don't like hack and slash may get tired of the numerous battles. But later in the game (actually pretty early in the game, and there is also a spell that allows you to do this), many of the battles are avoidable. However, I did this rarely, and only toward the end, because you should actually want to battle to increase in levels. And because of the skill system, I found this to be quite addictive.

[yin26]

I have had to put this game on hold because of some odd slow-downs I am experiencing. I've got a solid system with brand-name components and such. Even when I set video to 800X600 with low color demands and tuned down all the bells and whistles, I inevitably get a slow down during a battle. The mouse become nearly impossible to move etc. I figured this might be a sound card issue, not sure.

Has anybody had this problem?

At any rate, I did get awfully tired of the battles. I remember my 'old days' when I didn't mind slogging through them all. And to Wiz8's credit, the skill system does keep you interested in gaining levels ... perhaps it's just the darn slowdowns that really took the wind out of me.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Pembleton
One of my problems is that certain characters, like the Bard, are overpowered, and thus hampers the replay value for me.

Bards are overpowered? Never used one. I am using an imported party and the new system of changing professions really bugs me.

For example, if you have a level 10 rogue whom you want to make a bard. Before this, he loses all the attribute points he gained to the bare minimum for a bard, but keeps everything else. The positive side of this is he is a level 1 bard and gains level quickly.

Now he doesn't lose anything, but he's considered level 10 in terms of experience required to gain a new level, but he's considered level 1 in terms of bard abilities. It's really messed up.

Originally posted by Pembleton
One standout feature: The fighters are the best units in the game, and the magic-users are necessary but never become almighty toward the end, like in so many other RPGs.

I think it has a balancing problem in the middle somewhere. For example, a lowly Ironskin Croc can dish out over 100HP worth of damage in one round. Couple that with the fact that no matter what, the monsters get to move first , and you have a problem.

Originally posted by Pembleton
But later in the game (actually pretty early in the game, and there is also a spell that allows you to do this), many of the battles are avoidable.

You sure? Some times I can outrun some of the monsters, but they don't go away if you just sit and hide somewhere. I don't have the savegame anymore, but in one situation, a bunch of twilight bats were waiting for my party. I figured that, if I just sat around long enough they'd go away. No. Even after the party camped for 8 hours the bats were still around

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by yin26
I have had to put this game on hold because of some odd slow-downs I am experiencing. I've got a solid system with brand-name components and such. Even when I set video to 800X600 with low color demands and tuned down all the bells and whistles, I inevitably get a slow down during a battle. The mouse become nearly impossible to move etc. I figured this might be a sound card issue, not sure.

Has anybody had this problem?

I didn't have exactly the same problem but a similar one. Whenever my party was in Arnika the system slows down to a crawl. I minimised the problem by 1) upgrading the video driver 2) adding more memory 3) optimising Windows swap file.

If you list the configuration of your system and that of the game maybe we can help.

First thing to do is to upgrade your video driver. If you think it's a sound card issue try turning off sound, or turn off as much sound as you're allowed.

[yin26]

My driver is updated. I've got 256 MB RAM. Defragged the swap file. P3 850. I didn't try to turn off the sound yet, though, since if that really is the problem, I'd rather not play. I'm keeping my eyes on the patch cycle, though, to see what comes up. In the meantime, I don't particularly miss the game. But if I can fire it up later without the slowdowns, I'll jump back in.

[Pembleton]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Bards are overpowered? Never used one. I am using an imported party and the new system of changing professions really bugs me.

For example, if you have a level 10 rogue whom you want to make a bard. Before this, he loses all the attribute points he gained to the bare minimum for a bard, but keeps everything else. The positive side of this is he is a level 1 bard and gains level quickly.

I may have more time to give this more of an in-depth discussion tomorrow but I have to go to bed so I'll just touch on two things. The reasons bards are overpowered is because they use stamina instead of mana and it's easy to replenish that with the cleric's spell or stamina potions which are plentiful. Their stregth is dependent on the later instruments which are really strong.

And changing classes is not ideal in this game. According to Wizardry "veterans" who have played previous games (I haven't), it's best to stick with one class and not switch unless you switch really early, in which case, there really isn't any point. In previous Wizardries, supposedly the best thing to do is change classes to get the best characters, but in here you should stick with what you start with.

[Pembleton]

You sure? Some times I can outrun some of the monsters, but they don't go away if you just sit and hide somewhere. I don't have the savegame anymore, but in one situation, a bunch of twilight bats were waiting for my party. I figured that, if I just sat around long enough they'd go away. No. Even after the party camped for 8 hours the bats were still around

Well they aren't *all* avoidable. Just that after a certain point, *most* of them are, and it isn't a matter of outrunning them as much as finding out where they are and going around them.

And this is after you've been to the map at least once and actually killed some of them. In this game you have to return to areas multiple times, and creatures respawn, but you don't have to fight them if you don't want to. Twilight bats are still *relatively* early in the game, (unless you're talking about the bats in the first dungeon which is the beginning; it's been a while so I don't remember the exact names of the different bats), so it sounds like you didn't get too far in the game.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by yin26
My driver is updated. I've got 256 MB RAM. Defragged the swap file. P3 850. I didn't try to turn off the sound yet, though, since if that really is the problem, I'd rather not play. I'm keeping my eyes on the patch cycle, though, to see what comes up. In the meantime, I don't particularly miss the game. But if I can fire it up later without the slowdowns, I'll jump back in.

Hm, that's odd. My Wintel box is older than yours and I have no problems with it. What OS are you using?

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Pembleton
I may have more time to give this more of an in-depth discussion tomorrow but I have to go to bed so I'll just touch on two things. The reasons bards are overpowered is because they use stamina instead of mana and it's easy to replenish that with the cleric's spell or stamina potions which are plentiful. Their stregth is dependent on the later instruments which are really strong.

What about gadgeteers? They are almost identical to bards in these respects. I have never used a bard, but I have a gadgeteer in my party. I think they are more interesting anyway

Originally posted by Pembleton
And changing classes is not ideal in this game. According to Wizardry "veterans" who have played previous games (I haven't), it's best to stick with one class and not switch unless you switch really early, in which case, there really isn't any point. In previous Wizardries, supposedly the best thing to do is change classes to get the best characters, but in here you should stick with what you start with.

Yeah, I am one of them veterans

Previously it's best to switch profession at around level 10 to acquire various abilities. Just stagger the switches, say 2 PCs at a time, so your party remains reasonably powerful.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Pembleton
Twilight bats are still *relatively* early in the game, (unless you're talking about the bats in the first dungeon which is the beginning; it's been a while so I don't remember the exact names of the different bats), so it sounds like you didn't get too far in the game.

Sorry, should be vampire bats

They suck (in both senses). I think they were designed to give player characters a hard time. To wit: they have tons of hit points, they have draining, they don't worth any real experience points, and they are not considered undeads. Draining screws you out of several thousand gold pieces each time for a renewal potion. Not being undeads means you are out of several effective ways of dealing with them suckers.

It's a sadistic creation

[Grumbold]

Yes I learned early that its no longer good to change class. After a few false starts I've ended up with two fighters, two bishops, a monk and a ninja. The casters can't nuke as effectively as the fighters can dish out the damage, but if they concentrate on debilitating attacks and party enhancers they can really help the fighters by ensuring the damage ratio remains consistently in the party's favour. Crowd control spells like insanity can allow the fighters to target one enemy while the rest just gibber and foam harmlessly. Once your characters improve their stats a bit you should easily find yourself attacking before many of the monsters. Concentrating on getting two stats to 100 is much better than nudging up many stats because of the special abilities you learn when you hit max.

[Pembleton]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
What about gadgeteers? They are almost identical to bards in these respects. I have never used a bard, but I have a gadgeteer in my party. I think they are more interesting anyway

In terms of that they use stamina, yes, but in terms of power, no.

Later I used a gadgeteer NPC for quite some time and although he was fun, he was nowhere near as strong as my Bard. Bards made some of the most annoying battles go from difficulty 8-10 to a 4-6. If I had just the gadgeteer the difficulty of the battle would only be reduced by say a couple points.

This is a vague description, of course, and if you really want, it won't take long to dig up a saved game that has both of those characters, and I could specifically give a comparison of their abilities in the mid and late game when most of the gadgets and instruments have been created/found. But this might be considered spoiler information to some, and I would have to indicate that in the post I guess.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Grumbold
The casters can't nuke as effectively as the fighters can dish out the damage, but if they concentrate on debilitating attacks and party enhancers they can really help the fighters by ensuring the damage ratio remains consistently in the party's favour.

Another use for spellcasters is to neutralise enemy spellcasters in the back.

Originally posted by Grumbold
Once your characters improve their stats a bit you should easily find yourself attacking before many of the monsters

I don't know about this. Sir-tech has been releasing patches, so they could have changed it. Anyway, my party still can't move faster than critters ranked as "puny."

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Pembleton
In terms of that they use stamina, yes, but in terms of power, no.

Later I used a gadgeteer NPC for quite some time and although he was fun, he was nowhere near as strong as my Bard. Bards made some of the most annoying battles go from difficulty 8-10 to a 4-6. If I had just the gadgeteer the difficulty of the battle would only be reduced by say a couple points.

I guess this really has to depend on what sort of gadgets you have I now have a whole bunch of bard instruments and none of them look deadly, yet.

Do you know if I have any use for the rotten meat from the "zoo" in Trynton? I found the hogar has a feeding trough, so I threw the meat into the trough, and the game paused for some time, but nothing visible happens. Is that the right place to use the meat?

[Pembleton]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
I guess this really has to depend on what sort of gadgets you have I now have a whole bunch of bard instruments and none of them look deadly, yet.

Do you know if I have any use for the rotten meat from the "zoo" in Trynton? I found the hogar has a feeding trough, so I threw the meat into the trough, and the game paused for some time, but nothing visible happens. Is that the right place to use the meat?

I created/found almost all of the gadgets. The bard instruments aren't deadly. They weaken mass enemies so that everyone else has an easier time.

You have to do something to the meat. If you do that though, it isn't necessary to use it. I didn't myself, and it makes no difference to what treasure to find or anything like that. It's an alternate way to "solve" a part of a quest. The other way is to fight.

The only deadly characters are the fighters, anyway. The mage is never deadly either, but the game would be really damn hard without one.

[Urban Ranger]

It's just weird that the cursor changes into a hand when I move it over the feeding trough, but when I click it the game says "nothing happens."

So I am on the right track. Still haven't figure out what to do with the rotten meat yet.

[Urban Ranger]

Since I can't figure out what to do to the rotten meat, I just brute forced my way by killing off the hogar. You can tell me what I was missing now

I am now in the cemetery and there are some tombstones with runes on them. How can I tell that I have completely activated them all? Is something supposed to happen noticably?

[Urban Ranger]

Damn, this game gets exasperating.

How come I got mobbed by swarms after swarms of wasps and other monsters at the Mine Tunnels?

The interface isn't that well thought out either, one has to fight it at times. The auto-targeting feature is quite worthless too.