The Mod-With No Name (yet!) Discussion and Test Thread!

[Velociryx]

'k folks from my website who are looking for places to drop files in progress for intital testing and discussion on them.....here's a thread we can use. When we get a finalized version ready, we'll start a new thread (with a name for the mod, when we get around to selecting one!) over in the "Files" section, but....since we're still creating, I figured this would be the place for us!

-=Vel=-

[Velociryx]

'k....copied from my site for those at 'poly who have not seen our discussions, this is AT A MINIMUM what is being considered for the initial release (and guys, if I missed anything, or if you think something else should be added/removed, chime in!)
(see the ongoing debates at http://www.angelfire.com/sc2/hartpence)

* New Lux Items (sugar, tobacco, rum)

* New Bonus Resources (Bananas, Salt Flats)

* New Techs

*Tech Tree re-arranging proposed

* Terrain changes
-Allow mining of forests (logging)
-Remove mining of either grasslands or plains
-Irrigation of hills allowed

*Specialists - Taxmen and Scientists now provide 4 coins/beakers

* Unit Additions (Coracle, Mines, zero-resource units, etc)

* Unit Changes (Gachnar's HP scale, and Sev's combat modifiers, projectile wielding bombards, higher numbers, etc).

* Barbarian changes (nothing set in stone yet...my preference is Sword/Knight/Privateer as default units)

* New city names and such re: DarkAngel's extensive work!

-=Vel=-

[cassembler]

I like irrigating tundras to make them comparable to plains... two food, two trade, no production.... Kinda forces you to keep some of them there forests for logging camps...

[Velociryx]

's a good idea, but I'm wondering if it won't hurt some maps....specifically, I'm thinking of Marla's earth map....making Greenland and Siberia so settler friendly might cause MAJOR unbalances. One thing about tundra starts is: Once you switch to Demo, you can actually get decent sized cities in Tundra areas (IIRC3 food from sea squares post-harbor, freeing up pop points to work that mined (logged) forest!).

-=Vel=-

[Thoth]

I was thinking allong the opposite lines. Make tundra virtually uninhabitable. 0/1/0 No irrigation, +1 mining, no trade bonus.
This I think will cut down on AI arctic sprawl and make colonies a lot more useful (I've never built one) and a viable option even in the late game. It should be possible to build on game squares, but not on forests. I'll be testing this in my next game.

I like this for realism effects (there just aren't very many cities waaay up north), and I find the AI cities built on every square inch of tundra to be rather irritating.

Vel: Post harbour you only get 2 food per coast/sea square unless it's a bonus tile.

[Velociryx]

::nodding:: But does not Demo give you an additional +1? Or am I mis-remembering? LOL
-=Vel=-

[Thoth]

Option #2 I think.

[Velociryx]

Thoth....that does not surprise me in the least! LOL

'k folks, as always, if I miss something, feel free to chime in, but in the interest of getting V1.0 hammered out into playability, here goes nothing!
*********

Civ-Trait Modifications:
Scientific Civs: Get Writing as an additional tech (trial period for testing)

Expansionists: Get the Coracel (SP?) at game start, cos we'll set it to have a pre-req of Pottery. 0/0/2 Carries 1 unit, coastal ship only

Militarists: Review all militarists and make sure they have top of the line units (certainly best in class). Perhaps, we could start militarists off with 20 gold, rather than ten? (again, trial period for testing)
****

Hurry Costs:
The gold/shield ratio should be flipped (make it 4 in the ancient era and middle ages, switching to 8 upon the discovery of economics). This seems counter-intuitive, and in fact, it very definitely IS, however, it should be a step in the right direction re: balancing late game economic capacity and the ability to rush vast numbers of units nearly instantly.
****

Specialists
Taxmen and Scientists now generate 4 gold/beakers respectively (pre-requisites of Banking and Education, per Sev's recommendation) Reasoning: Since each pop point "costs" two food to maintain, this makes them profitable again, as opposed to being essentially leeches. It also sets up the possibility of viable specialist cities again, and prompts city growth beyond 20. Again, more strategic choice, which is the essence of the game.
****

Research Rate
Minimum Research Time (in turns) has been set to zero (1, if 0 is not possible). Reasoning: This takes the shackles off of players and allows, again, more strategic choice. Note though, that even with minrate = 0 the advantages are short-lived, as the techs you already know become correspondingly cheaper for the AI to research. Note that this MAY require late game techs to be ramped up in price.
****

Unit Hit Points
Gachnar's HP scale (3/4/5/7) has been adopted. Note that in addition to that basic change, the RoF of all artillery pieces has been doubled (making artillery slightly more effective than it was before, since unit HP's have not quite doubled).
****

Changes to terrain:
Grassland: No mining allowed!
Forests: Mining (logging) +1 Shield

New Resource Types/Changes to Existing Resource Types:
Cows: Become visible with "Animal Husbandry" tech

Wheat Stalks: Become visible with "Crop Rotation" tech

Bananas (jungle): +2 Food

Salt Flats (desert): +2 Shields

Oasis (desert): +2 Food/+2 Commerce

Rum (Lux): Becomes visible with "Nautical Tradition" tech (Appear: 120)

Sugar (and Wine): Become visible with "Monotheism" tech Appear: 120

Insense: Becomes visible with "Polytheism" tech: Appear: 120

(we'll add Coffee & Tobacco later, and make its appearance tech-specific, but since the tech hasn't been added/decided upon yet, we'll table it for the moment)

Appearance/Disappearance ratios:
In a further move to weaken plains/grasslands, some of the lux items ON those terrain types will be given appearance/disappearance ratios. These are:

Wine (vineyards closing down and relocating)

Ivory (elephant herds hunted to extinction or moving off)

Rum (distilleries closing down/moving off)

*****

Tech-Tree Changes/Moves/Additions:

"Animal Husbandry" NEW! (Ancient Era Tech) Cost 2 - Pre-req. Pottery (which also costs 2) - Makes Cows visible on the map.

"Diplomacy" NEW! (Ancient Era Tech) Cost (same as Republic) - Pre-req. Code of Laws, Map Making, Philosophy, Literature - Makes Comm Frequency trading possible, allows for the establishment of Embassies, Military Alliance (bascially, all the diplo options currently set at "Code of Laws" - Also makes the Highwayman unit available (3/2/2 Colorless).

"Nautical Tradition" NEW! (Middle Ages Tech)Pre-Req = Engineering Cost: 32 Makes all wooden sailing ships available (ocean-going!)- Privateers available here.

"Crop Rotation" NEW! (Middle Ages Baseline Tech) Cost: 26 (Makes wheat stalks available)

Libraries - moved back to writing on the thinking that there would be SOME PLACE to store written works even before the advent of literature per se....however, the Great Library should remain where it is (this is mostly on the thinking that every non-starting Ancient Era tech should net SOME tangible benefit). Heroic Epic also moved here.

Map Making: "Explorer" unit moved here.

Philosophy: Forbidden Palace moved here

Polytheism: move Hanging Garden here

Printing Press: Sun Tzu's Art of War

Chemisty: move Metallurgy's "neutralize Great Wall" ability to here.

Physics: Remove Theory of Gravity as a tech and move Newton's University here. That frees up an extra slot for a new tech.

Medicine: move the "eliminate disease from flood plain" ability to here & Hospitals.

Sanitation: Sewer Systems build added here.

The Corporation: move Universal Suffrage to here (AFTER Factories)

Steel: move Artillery over from Replaceable Parts to here. RP is already too good, and this seems like a nice place.

Atomic Theory: Uranium appears on the map (a LOT earlier than before, but ask the Curies about how long we've known about radioactivity)

Radio: required for the Pentagon, whose requirements decrease to 2 armies (that field is already in the editor); radio is required to coordinate large armies, after all. Airports moved here.

Move the neutralizing of the Hanging Garden from Steam Power to Electricity, just to give it an icon

Make Electricity needed for Steel? You can currently get Flight without Electricity, and it'd make the Industrial Age a VERY interwoven time

Move Amphibious War way up. We had Marines before we had Steam Power, so put it off of Nationalism (Note that this is a temporary fix, as we're tabling the Amphib.Units until release 2.0, at which time we can simply remove this tech, if we opt for several types of Amphib. Units available at various points in the game).

Advanced Flight should have Mass Production as a prerequisite instead of Motorized Transportation
*****

Military Units Changes:
Naval:
Galley 1.1.3
Caravel 1.1.4
Privateer 4.3.6
Frigate 6.6.5 (8).1.2
Galleon 1.2.5
Ironclad 8.8.4 (4).1.2 (This was to make it coexist with Frigate, giving them distinct roles)
Destroyer 12.12.8 (10).1.2 120 shields
Cruiser (new unit) 16.16.8 (12).1.2 140 shields
Battleship 28.28.10 (28).2.6 360 shields
Carrier 6.10.8 (6).1.2 carry4 180 shields
Submarine 14.12.5
Missile Destroyer (new unit)32.32.10 BLITZ, 180 shields
AEGIS Cruiser 42.42.10 BLITZ, SEESUB, 280 shields
Supercarrier 1.12.12 carry12 360 shields
Nuclear Submarine 48.36.12 240 shields

Land:
Musketman 2.4.1 (60) --> 3.6.1 (60)
Musketeer 3.4.1 (60) --> 4.6.1 (60)
Cannon 0.0.1 (8).1.1 (60) --> 0.0.1 (10).1.x
Cavalry 6.3.3 (80) --> 9.4.3 (80)
Rifleman 4.6.1 (80) --> 5.12.1 (80)
Infantry 6.10.1 (90) --> 8.16.2 (90)
Artillery 0.0.1 (12).2.2 --> 0.0.2 (18).2.x
Marine 8.6.1 (100) AmpA --> 18.16.2 (120) AmpA
Paratrooper 6.8.1 (100) PDrop --> 9.18.2 (100) PDrop
Tank 16.8.2 (100) Blitz --> 24.16.3 (160) Blitz
Mech Infantry 12.18.2 (110) --> 24.42.3 (240)
Modern Armor 24.16.3 (120) Blitz --> 48.24.3 (280) Blitz
added Attack Helicopter --> 48.12.5 (360) AllAsRoad Blitz noFortifyCommand
Radar Artillery 0.0.1 (16).2.2 --> 0.0.3 (36).2.x

Air:
Fighter 4.2.1 (2).0(4).1 (80) --> 12.6.1 (12).0(4).x
Helicopter 0.2.1 (80) --> 0.8.1 (40)
Bomber 0.2.1 (8).0(6).3 (100) --> 0.4.3 (18).0(6).x (160) Blitz
Jet Fighter 8.4.1 (2).0(6).1 (100) removed
replaced by Interceptor Fighter --> 16.32.2 (12).0(6).x (160) Blitz
and also by Strike Fighter --> 32.16.3 (20).0(6).x (160) Blitz
F-15 8.4.1 (4).0(6).2 (100) --> 36.18.3 (24).0(6).x (160) Blitz
Stealth Fighter 0.0.1 (4).0(6).2 (120) --> 0.0.3 (24).0(6).x (160) Blitz
Stealth Bomber 0.0.1 (8).0(6).3 (240) --> 0.0.5 (32).0(8).x (320) Blitz
****

Other General Changes:
All missile troops have been given ZOC & a Range 0 Bombard to allow them to attack incoming troops

Armies: Reduce price by 20%, give Blitz and ZOC, change ratio from 1:4 cities to 1:3 cities
****

New Units:
Mercenaries:
New unit category whose exact in-game effects are unknown without extensive testing. Essentially, the goal is to create a line of "barbarian units" (neutral color) that require a pop-point to build. It is unknown at this time whether these units will alter game play sufficiently to warrant their inclusion, and they should be considered "in" on a trial basis only. Privateer - Change attack value to four (see below on Naval Units).

Buccaneer - 2/2/1 Foot unit (this'll be what the new barbarian foot unit is set to) - available with Map Making/Galleys) - If we decide we wanna adopt Amphib. Assault units available at various times/techs, and not just with the current Amp. tech, then this unit could be given Amp. Ability in version 2.0

Highwayman - 3/2/2 Fast Unit - I'd love to include the Stirrups tech, but fear overspending what tech slots we have to work with in the Ancient Era. Would a viable compromise be to make them available at Diplomacy (Diplomacy....at swordpoint?) (this can be set to the standard Barb. Horse unit).

(More in the later eras? One thing that keeps me from adding more is that here's where the Merc-units begin to bleed into the "Zero-Resource" units listed below.....)

Zero-Resource Units
Middle Ages:
Frontiersman (the equal to the Musket Man, price doubled)

Man-At-Arms (Foot soldier 4/3/1 treats all terrain as roads - 2.5 times the cost of a knight)

Light Cavalry (5/2/3) - 2.5 times the price of normal cav

Industrial Ages:
Partisan (pseudo-infantry) - price tripled

Guerilla (pseudo-marine) - price tripled

Light Tank (same -1 attack, same d/m, no blitz) - price 2.5x normal tank

Land Mine (0/1/0) Artillery Unit Sea Mine (0/1/0)

Artillery Unit Armored Personnel Carrier (0/4/3) Troop Carrier* (exact stats subject to debate/change)

Modern units still being developed and considered (but not for the 1.0 release)

Graphically, the zero-resource units will use the same graphics as their stronger, cheaper counterparts, but a distinctive graphic for the Man-At-Arms would rock!

-=Vel=-

Edit: For testing purposes, if it's possible to make Sun Tzu a minor wonder (to allow all civs to build it, I think we should, as this will give the AI civ's a chance to get barracks everywhere, and per Arrian's comments on the 'poly forums, this may serve to dramatically increase AI combat performance!) Thoughts there?

[SithUK]

added Attack Helicopter --> 48.12.5 (360) AllAsRoad Blitz noFortifyCommand

I was wondering if u were planning on giving the helicopter the pillage ability? If it does then it would be used to move ahead of the main front ripping up roads/railroads to hamper the enemy getting reinforcements in. Isn't this what the Paratrooper unit is supposed to be for? Or is the helicopter meant to be replace the para in this roll?

Excellent work so far (I'm a daily lurker on the your mod project forum so I know how much work you guys have put in!)

Regards,

Sith

[Grim Leaper]

great suggestions.

and now, here are mine:
i'm not entially sure if this is true, but from my experiences the ai seems to be able to see resources before they appear, and thus would have a huge advantage with your changes.

i;m not to sure about your 'highwayman' unit. they were not ordered or commisioned by any nation, and played not such an important part in history.

giving expansionist civs the coracle may lead to problems with starting locations (inland as opposed to coast), but otherwise i would defently put it in.

Uranium shouldn't appear with atomic theory, but later on (the curies merly discorved it's radioactive properties, not how to utalise it)

i hope these are useful.

[Velociryx]

Hey all, and thanks for the comments!

Sith, the short answer to your question regarding Helicopters is I'm not sure! Sev (our Master Modder) gave us those numbers, and I'm not 100% sure what all the rationale behind them is, but I'll find out!

Grim: Yep....the Highwayman and other "colorless" units is being added in as something of an experiment....in fact, I've been doing some testing with that category of unit, and :: gulp:: they're heinously powerful! Probably a broken unit as it stands now, but that's why we've not made any kind of public release yet....needs testing so we can be sure.

As to the position of Uranium, that's one thing we discussed over on my board where we're cooking all the particulars up. It's true that the utilization of that particular resource does not come till later, but our rationale behind its move was that the Curies discivered it, and it's radioactive properties far sooner than the game initially reflects. As it stands, you now can discover WHERE the Uranium is a long time before you can actually do anything constructive with it.....I'm thinking it'll help with strategic planning, but again, we'll have to test all that out more extensively to ensure it has the "desired effect"

And here's the latest results from my own testing (Colorless units):

Holy $hit! Learned a few hard lessons in testing today! First, Soren's AI does indeed, know how to use newly added units.

Second, colorless units CAN capture rival Civ towns without triggering a general war!

Was playing a large map test game....started near the Japs, who were mightily hemmed in by me, the Chinese, and the Zulu, so I set about constructing a 10 unit Horseman force to strip them of most, if not all of their cities.

Started the war, and things went swimmingly, three cities captured in two turns, and then....

From outta nowhere these two little Explorer guys popped up (I was using their graphics for the "Highwayman"). They proceeded to THRASH my wounded and resting Horsemen, and take two of the recently acquired Japanese towns from me! Yowza!

Considering this *heinously powerful* ability, I'm gonna try testing Infantry-based colorless units at one pop point (leaving them the same), and fast colorless units at two. As it stands now, even with one pop point factored into their cost, it's no contest....I'll build colorless units every time. It may, in fact, turn out that we need to make them cost 2 and 3 pop points respectively (slow and fast) to make them balanced....that left me with my jaw hanging down! Too cool!

-=Vel=-

[Velociryx]

Other Mod-test observations:

There was some fear/worry that increasing the strength of the default barbarians would hamstring the AI's ability to expand. In my testing, I'm happy to report that this does not seem to be the case.

In fact, the "one-two punch" effect of stripping away cows and wheat from visibility on the open, when counted with the newly strengthened Barbarians leaves the human player at the decided disadvantage. Given the AI's production and growth modifiers on the higher levels of play, they're very nearly unaffected by the absence of the plains bonus food tiles, able to expand very nearly as fast as they were before, and the human player is left floundering in the early game. I've regularly had to square off against AI Empires double the size of my own since I began testing various elements of the mod. Of course, the human player does even things out with the arrival of "Animal Husbandry" but by then, the AI has been able to expand without as much human interference, and they've generally been doing a really good job of it. That, coupled with their ability to bounce back much more quickly than the human player from Barbarian Horde attacks leaves the AI in a superior position overall, and, IMO, makes for some *very* interesting early game situations.

With a bit more tweaking of these colorless units and some of the other proposed changes, I think we'll be able to say that our mod will dramatically alter the flow of the game, and give everyone who plays it significantly more strategic choice.

-=Vel=-

[korn469]

Vel

i'm not sure if you know this or not and if it has any bearing on your mod

with all of the other resources even when you don't see them you still get their effect, have you tested this with wheat?

well even if you still get the bonus but you can't see it i'm sure it would slow the human down a little

also is your aim to slow down expansion?
i changed settler to 3 pop four shields with some success

[The_Aussie_Lurker]

Hey Vel and Co,

Just thought I'd let you know that I have the FINAL EDIT of my new Civstats file that I'd like to contribute to this mod with no name-I hope it comes in handy.

Just a couple of nitpicking items:

1) I don't think that animal husbandry or crop rotation should be seperate techs. In particular, animal husbandry is sought of assumed under The Wheel or Horseback Riding, as it seems to represent the overall animal domestication process. Basically, I have cattle becoming available with the wheel and wheat available with Monarchy. Until that time you can have sheep and barley bonus resource.

2) I have also included improved livestock (avail. imperialism) and improved crops (availbale with Chemistry).

3) Sugar and Rum should not be seperate luxuries, as rum is just fermented sugar cane anyway!! Thats why I have the distillery improvement (unfortunately, you can't have either/or requirements)

EDIT: Changed the Civ3Finaledit file with the following:

1)Added 3 new improvements-Dry-Dock, Port Facility and Naval Academy (and downgraded harbour significantly).
2) Added several NEW units: Modern battleship, steamship and super carrier. Also added amphibious units. Naval Assault force (ancient), Coastal raiders and buccaneers (Middle Ages), Marine Riflemen (Late Middle Ages) and also Navy SEALS (Modern Marines). I also added the units SAS (Upgrade for both paratroopers and Spec-Ops), Amphibious Landing Craft (Industrial) and Amphibious Assault Craft. Hope this is useful.

Anyway, I'm attaching the file here so that you can have a look, please don't be too harsh!!

Yours,
The_Aussie_Lurker.

[Spaced Cowboy]

Vel -- Wow, this mod looks really cool. I cannot wait to get my hands on it.

I have a couple of suggestions and comments.

Is there a way to make the prereqs for the pop limiting improvements different? In other words increase the likelihood that disease would keep the pop in check until the aqueduct and hospital are deployed. For instance a city not by a river could grow to pop 7 (w/o aqueduct) but the chance of a pop point lost to disease would increase to 40-60% with increases to this chance as the pop increases like pop 8 60-80%, pop 9 80-90%, pop 10 90-100%. There should also be a catastrophe prevention for these improvements as the populations increases. For instance a pop 14 city (w/ aqueduct and w/o hospital) has say a 40-60% chance of losing one pop point and a 5-10% chance of losing 10-40% of the population to smallpox. All of these factors would be influenced by surrounding terrain types.

To decrease late game tedium with workers (w/o stacking), how about the super worker (upgradable from worker) and the engineer (upgradable from SW), possibly even the super engineer?

Is it possible to have leader generation happen on actions other than combat? Would it be possible for a slight chance of leader generation to occur for the civ with the culture lead 1-2% chance. I find that I am unable to play pacifist without getting a leader to build the FP, and since it takes sooo long to get one sometimes (if ever) many wars are likely to occur that I normally would not pursue.

Lastly, besides the improvements to units in the later game, is there anything else we could add to the modern era to make the game more fun in that era. Most of you improvements address the ancient era which is by far the best era to play. Seems like we need some fresh or more improvements to the modern era. Also even though the modern era units are now KA, does the computer know to upgrade?

[Velociryx]

Hey RPM, and thanks for checking in here!~ I'm glad you're liking the sounds of the mod, and I can tell you, based on my own testing of various segments of things, that it's going to dramatically improve the overall play experience when we're done!

As to your ideas:

The disease thing....sadly no. It's either on or off....:: sigh:: kinna sucks, but that's the best we can do with the editor as it stands. If they give us more flexibility there though, you can bet you'll be seeing stuff like that in future iterations!

Engineers and workers....yep....not to worry, it's coming...(see below!)

Leaders: So far, no....well...Kinna no. I'm working on something that MAY allow for Leaders to be "built" I dunno, and it'll be heinously powerful, so it'll have to be pretty doggone expensive, but.....it just MIGHT be doable in a roundabout way....(more on that below too!)

Late Game Stuff: It's true, the very best elements of the game take place in the Ancient Era and the Middle Ages, and combat modifiers aside, that's where most of our improvements in v 1.0 occur, BUT....

Keep the faith! This is merely the "first installment" of an ongoing effort to improve the game. Trouble is, it's such a *vast* game that (as was pointed out by one of the folks helping with the design), if we don't do it iteratively, we'll be forever getting anything out the door, and if there's problems with balancing, it may not be possible to immediately recognize exactly where the balance problems are if we change too much at once. So....we're starting off with this, addressing what I believe to be the most glaring problems with the game (terrain imbalances on the opener, combat, too little early game choice where strategy is concerned), and we'll build from there. (For example, in v 2.0, two of the MAJOR components we'll be adding and discussing in depth is a total re-vamping of the way Amphibious Units are handled (currently there's only one Amphib Unit, but I strongly suspect there'll soon be more, and probably starting in the Middle Ages!), and Aussie Lurker has posted a MAMMOTH Civ-Improving document that I'm still reading and digesting....it's huge....probably too huge to add in all at once, so we'll have to break it down by era and see where it takes us, but there's that, and a number of other ideas that have been fronted that we can't really implement just yet (editor limitations), including Government Types that feature Gov-Specific Wonders and Units to *really* make them distinct!

My thoughts on the "Great Leader/Great Artist" Kinna thing: (No names for any of this stuff yet, cos it's still just a rough idea)

1) Make City-Build A - Culture Enhancer, available in all cities.
2) Make City-Build B - Culture Enhancer that can only be built in cities that have "A", and only along rivers (to limit the total number)
3) Make Minor Wonder C - Pre-Requisites (Must have Wine and City Build B in the city in order to build the wonder)

New Unit: Great Artist: Pre-Req: Minor Wonder C, Cost (something huge and outrageous)

Dunno, but that's one way of *maybe* simulating it....

-=Vel=-

A general comment too! When the Mod is put out here for downloading, *please* feel free to comment, gripe, complain, or sugesst ways of improving what's already in place! As I see it, each additional iteration of the Mod will basically be comprised of two distinct parts: First, to tweak what already exists, based on player feedback, and second, to add to what already exists, expanding the overall scope and depth of the Mod.

Engineers: I've had that thought too, about more techs or wonders that double worker speed. Do it often enough, and you begin to seriously cut down on the number of workers needed on hand to accomplish late game tasks (pollution control). No specifics yet here, but it's definitely something to watch for in future iterations!

[Velociryx]

Comments and Reasonings:

Korn - Indeed, and your idea re: slowing down expansion further still by having settlers cost 3 pop might be something to look at! Mostly, the goal is to keep the game as interesting as possible for as long as possible, without making the player feel like he's beating his head against the wall and not getting anywhere. I like a steady sense of progress in my games, and lots of choices. If I have those two things in ample supply, then I don't mind if things take a while to get up and running smoothly. And, since most would agree that Civ's BEST moments come in the early game, then extending that might well be a good thing!

Aussie - Good points re: Wheat/Cows....my short answer is that we'll leave it as is for the moment, pending testing, cos I wanna get a broad base of opinons on it as it stands, making additional tweaks and changes if needed.

Basically, the move to eliminate both from plains on the opener seeks to balance plains starts with others (and actually, from a purely mathematical "min/max" standpoint, FloodPlains are the best, most desirable start of all, in SPITE of the chance for disease.

Secondarily, moving cows to a separate "Animal Husbandry" tech, and making it cheap (tech cost is only 2), and with a Pre-req of Pottery helps strengthen Expansionist civs by giving them a meaningful way to do the very thing their civ trait says they excel at. (and, IMO, it dramatically strengthens what most folks regard as the weakest of the Civ-traits).

Wheat Stalks: I dunno....I mean, I could be convinced to make this available earlier, but Monarchy is already a plenty powerful tech in its own right (new gov type, and, IIRC, a wonder). I was going historical here, Jethro Tull's crop rotation not only increased aggregate outputs, but prevented soil nutrient depletion, which led to drastically reduced periods of famine due to catostrophic crop failure. IMO, that's what warranted the placement of Wheat Stalks where they are (and, it makes a nice "two step" ramping up of plains to their position of natural superiority over the jungle/desert/tundra starts). However, all of this may go up for review post-release when be being closely examining your truly massive, well-thought out proposals, and blending them with what we've got!

Sugar: I'm inclined to agree, but I DO love Cat's graphic for the sugar! (even if we pull it from the Mod proper, I may just add it back in on my own copy...lol)

[Spaced Cowboy]

Aussie, wow awesome spreadsheet, I like the fact that there is room for lots more buildings. Seems kinda sad that there is only 64 slots for units though. I'm not trying to bang on you here but, you have opium, marijuana, and hemp; are you trying to tell us something. It would be cool, however, to have negative luxuries (like illegal drugs and alcohol) that add to the happiness of the civ, but decrease culture, production, and possibly revenues.

Vel, will there be more buildings in the mod? I would especially like to see more buildings that do something in the modern era. More buildings for culture only. And definately more buildings that ease corruption, especially as one moves through time. I do not mind eating it with corruption early in the game. It just sucks that it never gets better.

Lastly, (like there ever was really a lastly), when can I get my hands on this mod? Would you like another person to give feedback on changes (I know it is not done yet, just trying to help)?

[Velociryx]

Hey bud! Just back from lunch and figured I'd better jump on here and answer before the call volume picks back up ( :: sigh:: Sometimes having to work for a living is SUCH a grind! LOL)

Aussie's Proposals: Are....huge! And well thought out, to boot! I'd not be overly surprised if many/most of them find their way into future iterations of the project! A number of outstanding units, builds, wonders, and government types will be rolled out and discussed in depth not long after we get something playable out here and working!

Buildings: As far as this iteration of the mod, nope. No additional buildings planned for the 1.0 release (errr....at least none that spring to mind). A fistful of new techs, and shifts/changes so that there ARE NO stepping stone techs that don't do something for you! (That's one thing I couldn't stand or understand about the game....6000 freakin' years of human history, less than a hundred techs, and some of them don't DO anything for you?! Humbug! I quite agree that more buildings are needed, and look to Aussie's mod to give us a fantastic starting point when getting together to talk about what all to put in.

Culture-specific buildings (that do nothing but increase culture) will very definitely be in the mix (possibly at the trade-off of totally removing the cultural effect of research-oriented builds), builds (and, as you say, potentially resources) that come with a negative cultural impact--Labor Camp, among others).

Basically, what I'm looking for is systemic balance but component imbalance in many cases....what I mean by that is: Create a balanced system made up of divergent pieces. Some parts (Temples, for example) provide a good mix of benefits and are no brainers to build). Other stuff (like Libraries, to use another example), may or may not be a good idea to build everywhere. Let's say, for the sake of conjecture, that you have a HIGHLY productive city and decide to plop a labor camp in there, and several other nasty builds that increase productivity at the expense of culture and science in that city. This is prolly NOT the place you want to spend tons of shields on for science boosting stuff. Individually, some of the builds are imbalanced (providing huge boosts to one aspect of the city, at the detriment of one or more others), but on the whole....balance.

This is one of the key ways to create strategic choice for players....provide a series of things the player wants: (shield production, good science, good money, good borders (Culture), but don't hand it to them all with 2-3 buildings....no way....sure, have SOME buildings that are well-balanced and do a little of everything (early game stuff), but as the game grinds on, cities begin to specialize out, and late-game buildings should reflect that, becoming individually more and more one-sided to allow players to really, truly set up super science cities, or cultural bulwarks, or heinously productive industrial centers.....

Oh yeah....it'll be cool....

-=Vel=-

[Velociryx]

D'oh! Forgot the most important part of the question!

Our Master Modder Sev is currently working the magic to get all these ideas into a single, playable bic file while our artists are laboring to create some new icons and animations for us.

At last estimate, the mod itself (minus the new art for units) will be ready for Alpha Testing in a matter of days. Mind you, the units will be placeholders, and I dunno about the level of completion of such things as the look and feel of the tech tree (Tech Advisor screen), but we'll be able to fire up a game using these changes and see how it plays out....that'll be the *really* cool stuff.... So yes! Keep an eye on this thread! This will be the place we "hang" our testing files and comment on the results of games played, so if you're up for nuking your current .bic file, join us!

-=Vel=-

[The_Aussie_Lurker]

Hey RPM,

First, thanks for the positive comments-it's always nice to be appreciated, however I should point out that it was Nero Would who first put together the spreadsheet. I merely edited it to include my mod suggestions (Used it as a template).

As for your comments concerning the drug angle, I can assure you that I do not smoke, I drink rarely and I take no drugs (though I do respect the right of others to do so as long as they aren't hurting anyone else!!) I just included these items because they have had a major impact on our socieites throughout history!! Hemp, of course, was a major source of material for clothing, rope and even paper and home construction in ancient societies, but that is a completely different story. You will notice however that, though these items make people happy, they do reduce production from that tile!!

Anyway, hope to get more feedback from you in the future.

Yours,
The_Aussie_Lurker

[Spaced Cowboy]

Vel, My bic file is hovering over the trashcan icon awaiting the eternal drop into the abyss. I understand that the mod will not be in the final form and that some of the artwork and screens will not be totally complete.

You had me going until I read the second post. I finished reading the first post and said to myself, "I've been Diss'd by Vel". Anyway, I appreciate you keeping me and the rest of the lurkers entertained over the last two months. I know that if you are excited about this mod, then it will be good.

I'm still playing the patched version, but have still not been able to get into the modern age because I tend to get bored by that point and have the largest empire. I guess that I am trying to say that since I have not seen the modern era, it would be hard for me to give advice on how to make it better.

(PS -- I'm at work too. My boss just walked in as I was typing this. Thank God for the minimize button. That's okay though, I catch my employees surfing all the time -- as long as they get their work done.)

[The_Aussie_Lurker]

Hi Vel,

Thankyou for ALL your positive feedback regarding my mod suggestions, it makes all the work SO worthwhile (although the chance to expand the game makes it worthwhile as well!!!)
You made a mention of government specific units and improvements, and the inability to do this!? The reason this seems strange is that I'm sure I've seen a mod in the Files section where this had actually been achieved (off the top of my head, however, I can't remember which one!!!!) If you can find the guy who created that mod, perhaps he can let you know HOW he was able to tie improvements and wonders to certain governments!!

EDIT: I FOUND IT!!! It's Monkspiders BALANCER MOD. In it, he has a whole host of government-specific improvements, so it might be a good idea for one of us to ask how the HELL he did it!? Hope this info helps you Vel.

Yours,
The_Aussie_Lurker

[Velociryx]

Hey Aussie! And you're welcome! Having spent a good deal of time in the guts of your proposed changed, all I can say is I'm amazed! It's a VERY well considered system! I think it'll spark a LOT of great discussion as we begin to massage it into the general framework, and I can tell you I'm looking forward to that!

As to the government specific stuff: Yes....it is true you can add new government specific wonders and units, however - switching gov type does not disallow them. It's like the game only checks once to see if you meet the requirements to have them....once it finds out that you do, it never checks again, so if you change governments later.....:: sigh:: But, keep yer fingers crossed! Perhaps the next patch will give us the goods!

-=Vel=-

[Velociryx]

RPM: Ahhh yes...they joys of surfing at work! LOL! Glad to hear I'm not alone in that!

Oh, and I'd not diss you...just....well, I'm a scatterbrain sometimes.....(or frequently, depending on who you ask!)

I totally agree with you about the Modern Age....part of me wants to get in there and try to fix it up, but another part of me looks at it like this: If the vast majority of those 6000 years of history is covered in the first two ages, and everybody keeps saying how good those two eras are, then perhaps what we need to do first is make the first two game eras even MORE immersive, and then see what we can do about perking up the last two.

So....a pretty huge project...and the more eyeballs we have on it testing, the better the end result will be!

-=Vel=-

[Grim Leaper]

Still on the uranium subject:
i understand your idea about giving the player time to prepare, but looking at the tech tree, there is a long time from that advance to actually being able to use it. Some resources should be avaliable before you can use them, like coal.

i would list more suggestions now, but i need my sleep. so instead i'll store them up till tomorrow

[The_Aussie_Lurker]

Hi Again guys,

First of all to Grim Leaper-I agree with Vel about pushing some of the strategic resources availability back for a couple fo reasons. First it represents the tech at which people first appreciate what the resource IS, and knows it exists. For example, oil should be available with industrialization, as this is when it was first REALLY used, but mostly in lamps and so forth. It wan't until the advent of refining, however, that it's true potential was realised (same with uranium and saltpeter-the Chinese first used it in fireworks, but it was the Europeans who cottoned on to it's use as a WEAPON!!) Most importantly, however, it allows a much more technologically superior Civ to trade for a resource, even if that Civ doesn't appreciate it's FULL potential!

On another note, I've thought of some new amphibious units, please feel free to diss them if you like!!

Ancient: Naval Assault force or Naval Landing Force or Naval Legionnaires; Requires Mapmaking.

Middle Ages: Coastal Raiders and Bucanneers-Available with Trade Specialisations. Bucanneers are raiders that lack the civ identifier!
Marine Rifleman-Available with Navigation.

Industrial Age: Amphibious landing Vehicle (lighter version of the tank which can make amphibious assaults!)-Available with Amphibious war.

Modern Age: Modern Marines (stronger version of marines) and Amphibious Assault Vehicle (Lighter version of modern armour)-Available with synthetic fibres.

I also feel in strong agreement with Optimizer that the Civ series as a whole tends to treat naval combat and tradition as a MERE sideline. To deal with this I have the following suggestions (some are mine, some are Optimizers)

1. The harbour is TOO powerful an improvement. As in Civ2, it should only increase the amount of food obtained!
2. New improvement-Port Facility: Requires harbour and marketplace to build, increases trade (arrows). Cultural improvement. Available with Astronomy
3. New Improvement-Dry Dock: Requires Harbour to build, production:2, culture:-1. Now a prerequisite for building a naval shipyard! Available with Astronomy
4. New improvement- Naval Academy. Coastal improvement. Allows production of Veteren Naval units. Available with Military tradition. Cultural improvement.
5. New naval units-Steamship. Available with Steam Power. Has same troop capacity as a galleon, but higher defense and attack strengths.
Modern Battleship. Available with Nuclear Power. Nuff said. VERY POWERFUL!!
SuperCarrier. Availbale with Nuclear Power. Again nuff said. higher attack/defense, greater transport capacity.

Anyway, let me know what you guys think and, if you like the ideas, I'll edit the spreadsheet!

Yours,
The_Aussie_Lurker

[Skanky Burns]

Originally posted by Grim Leaper
Some resources should be avaliable before you can use them, like coal.

I really like that suggestion for a number of reasons.
First, the Ironworks is listed as an ancient wonder, but is only available in the industrial age?? If coal were revealed earlier, then the Ironworks could actually be an actually useful small wonder. Also, if coal were moved back a bit, the Ironworks would stand out more as a special production bonus, instead of being 1 tech away from factories. Very bad placement.

Also if you have discovered steam but dont have coal, you cant really benefit from your tech lead. Even though the other civs would know of this resource, you cant trade for it. Moving coal back to before steam would make this aspect of the game more realistic.

With the mod in general, i wouldnt mind testing it, seeing which parts are unbalanced.

Vel: Is there a flag in the editor to make the colorless units unable to capture cities?? That would go a long way to un-breaking those colorless units.

[The_Aussie_Lurker]

Actually Vel, when I think about it, the problem you've mentioned with Gov-specific buildings isn't such a big deal with most of the ones I've suggested for the following reasons:

1) Most of them become obsolete at some time!
2) Many of them have a NEGATIVE impact of some sort (culture, happiness, research etc)
3) From the AI perspective, the various civs favour certain govs, so I expect that once they settle on a gov they like they won't change TOO often.

In spite of these points, however, I also hope that they fix this situation!
I wonder, would it work if we approached it from the opposite end-ie. flagging governments that CANNOT build or benefit from the improvement, rather than flagging those that can? Let me know what you think.

Yours,
The_Aussie_Lurker

[korn469]

The_Aussie_Lurker

unfortunantly their isn't a way a preventing a government from building a wonder or improvement

Skanky Burns

again unfortunantly their isn't a way to prevent a hidden nationality unit from capturing a city with the editor in a conventional way, about the closest way i could think of would be to make it an airunit that didn't immoble wasn't selected, and that it didn't have the rebase command...i have no idea if this would work, but it might

all in all the editor is rather disappointing but it does have potential

anyway here is the list of changes that i've made in my mod that i have recorded (i made a bunch of changes to governments but have yet it put them in the readme)

Changes to Units

Land Units
Ancient
Settler 0.0.1 40/3 (wheeled) {Colonist}
Worker 0.0.1 10/1
Scout 0.0.1 10 (all terrain as roads) {Explorer}
Warrior 1.1.1 10 {Legionary}
Archer 4.2.1 20 {Longbowman}
Spearman 2.4.1 20 {Pikeman}
Swordsman 6.4.1 30 {Longbowman} iron
Chariot 2.2.2 20 (wheeled) {Mounted Warrior} horses
Horseman 4.2.2 30 (mounted) {Rider} horses
Catapult 0.1.1 8[2]1 20 (wheeled) {Cannon} iron
Jaguar Warrior 2.2.2 10 {Warrior}
Bowman 4.4.1 20 {Archer}
Hoplite 2.6.1 20 {Impi}
Impi 2.4.2 20 {Spearman}
Legionary 6.6.1 30 {Immortals} iron
Immortals 8.4.1 30 {Swordsman} iron
War Chariot 4.2.2 20 {Chariot} horses
Mounted Warrior 6.2.2 30 (mounted) {Horseman} horses

Middle Ages
Explorer 1.1.2 20 (all terrain as roads) Astronomy
Colonist 0.0.2 80/2
Pikeman 2.6.1 30 {Musketeer} none
Longbowman 8.4.1 40 {Partisan} iron
Knight 8.6.2 60 (mounted) {Coassack} horses, iron
Musketman 6.8.1 40/1 {Rifleman} saltpeter
Cavalry 12.6.3 80/1 (mounted) {Panzer} horses, saltpeter
Cannon 0.2.1 16[2]1 40 (wheeled) {Artillary} saltpeter
Rider 8.6.3 60 (mounted) {Samurai} horses, iron
Samurai 8.8.2 60 {War Elephant} iron
War Elephant 8.6.2 60 (mounted) {Knight}
Musketeer 8.8.1 40/1 {Musketman} saltpeter
Cossack 12.8.3 80 (mounted) {Cavalry} horses, saltpeter

Industrial
Rifleman 12.15.1 60/1 {Infantry}
Partisan 8.8.4 40/1 (hidden nationality)
Infantry 20.25.2 80/1 {Mech Infantry} rubber
Tank 40.20.3 100/1 (blitz) {Modern Armor} oil, rubber
Marine 30.20.2 100/1 (amphibious unit) rubber
Paratrooper 25.25.2 [8] 110/1 (airdrop) oil, rubber
Artillary 0.3.2 30[5]2 80 {Radar Artillary} iron
Panzer 40.20.4 100 (blitz) {Tank} oil, rubber

Modern
Mech Infantry 30.45.4 120/1 (blitz) oil, rubber
Modern Armor 60.30.4 120/1 (blitz) oil, rubber, aluminum
Radar Artillary 0.4.3 40[7]2 120 (blitz) aluminum
Cruise Missile 0.0.1 25[8]4 60 (tactical missile, cruise missile, foot soldier, load, airlift) aluminum
Tactical Nuke 0.0.1 0[0]8 130 aluminum, uranium
ICBM 0.0.1 (ICBM) 250 Aluminum, Uranium

Sea Units
Ancient
Galley 1.1.3 20|2 {Caravel}

Middle Ages
Caravel 2.4.4 30|2 {Galleon}
Frigate 6.6.5 4[4]1 50 {Ironclad} iron, saltpeter
Galleon 2.4.5 50|4 {transport}
Privateer 4.2.6 40 (hidden nationality, zoc) {Destroyer} iron, saltpeter
Man-O-War 8.6.5 6[4]1 50 {Frigate} iron, saltpeter

Industrial
Ironclad 12.12.6 10[5]1 70 {Destroyer} iron, coal
Transport 3.5.8 100|8 oil
Carrier 3.25.10 200|5 (radar) oil
Submarine 25.10.8 90 (can see submarines) oil
Destroyer 30.20.11 15[5]1 100 (can see submarines) {Aegis Cruiser} oil
Battleship 60.40.10 25[5]2 200 oil, iron, coal

Modern
Aegis Cruiser 30.30.11 10[5]1 160|2 (can see submarines, radar, can carry tactical missiles, carry foot units only) aluminum, uranium
Nuclear Submarine 15.20.9 150|3 (can see submarines, can carry tactical missiles) uranium

Air Units
Industrial
Fighter 12.10.2 15[3]6 80 (blitz) {Jet Fighter} oil
Bomber 0.7.2 25[8]8 100 (blitz) oil
Helicopter 0.4.2 0[0]6 90 (can see submarines) oil, rubber

Modern
Jet Fighter 25.20.3 25[5]8 120 (blitz, radar) oil, aluminum
Stealth Fighter 0.5.3 35[5]8 120 (blitz, radar, stealth) oil, rubber, aluminum
Stealth Bomber 0.3.3 38[10]8 240 (blitz, radar, stealth) oil, rubber, aluminum
F-15 25.20.3 30[8]8 120 oil, aluminum

Armies
Army -.-.1 130|2 (army, blitz, pillage)

Changes to Combat Experiance
Conscript 4
Regular 6
Veteran 9
Elite 12

General Settings Changes
*Future Tech Cost now 500
*Minimum Research Time now 2 turns
*Maximum Research Time now 50 turns
*Cities Needed to Support an Army now 2
*Chance to Intercept Enemy Air Missions now 90%
*Chance to Intercept Enemy Stealth Missions now 9%
*Citizen Defensive Bonus now 16
*Building Defensive Bonus now 16
*Basic Barbarian is now a Swordsman
*Advanced Barbarian is now a Knight
*Barbarian Sea Unit now Privateer

Changes to Citizens
*Scientist now provides 3 research and comes with Education
*Tax Collector now provides 3 taxes and comes with Gunpowder

Changes to Civilizations
*Implemented Sevorak's More City Names Mod
*Changed colors for many civs

Changes to Civilization Advances
*Increased cost of all Industrial and Modern Age techs by 10%

Changes to Culture
*In awe of
Culture Ratio 4:1
Chance of Successful Propaganda 40%
Initial Resistance Chance 35%
Continued Resistance Chance 25%
*Admirers of
Culture Ratio 3:1
Chance of Successful Propaganda 30%
Initial Resistance Chance 45%
Continued Resistance Chance 35%
*Impressed with
Culture Ratio 2:1
Chance of Successful Propaganda 25%
Initial Resistance Chance 60%
Continued Resistance Chance 50%
*Unimpressed with
Culture Ratio 1:2
Chance of Successful Propaganda 15%
Initial Resistance Chance 80%
Continued Resistance Chance 70%
*Dismissive of
Culture Ratio 1:3
Chance of Successful Propaganda 10%
Initial Resistance Chance 90%
Continued Resistance Chance 80%
*Disdainful of
Culture Ratio 1:4
Chance of Successful Propaganda 5%
Initial Resistance Chance 95%
Continued Resistance Chance 90%

Changes to Difficulty Level
*Cheiftain
Number of Citizens born content 5
Attack bonus vs. Barbarians 500%
*Warlord
Attack bonus vs. Barbarians 50%
Percentage of optimal cities 100%
*Regent
Attack bonus vs. Barbarians 0%
Percentage of optimal cities 100%
*Monarch
Attack bonus vs. Barbarians 0%
*Emperor
Addition Free Support 10
Attack bonus vs. Barbarians 0%
*Deity
Number of Start Unit type 1: 2
Number of Start Unit type 2: 3
Addition Free Support 20
Bonus for each city 5
Max government transition time 1
Cost factor 5

Changes to Diplomats and Spies
*Build an Embassy cost 15
*Investigate City cost 7
*Steal Technology cost 9
*Steal World Map cost 1
*Plant Spy cost 45
*Steal Plans cost 7
*Initiate Propaganda cost 80
*Sabotage Production cost 8
*Expose Enemy Mole cost 60

Changes to World Sizes
*Tiny
Optimal cities 16
Tech Rate 75
*Small
Optimal cities 20
Tech Rate 115
*Standard
Optimal cities 24
Tech Rate 150
*Large
Optimal cities 32
Tech Rate 225
*Huge
Optimal cities 40
Tech Rate 300

Changes to Worker Jobs
fortress 6
railroad 15
clear pollution 30

Changes to Improvements and Wonders

Improvements
Capital
Palace 100/1/0 Center of Empire, +25% defense

Happiness
Temple 60/1/1 +1 Happy (Religious)
Colosseum 120/1/2 +2 Happy
Cathedral 160/2/2 +3 Happy [Temple] (Religious)

Economic
Marketplace 100/0/1 +50% Tax Output, Increases Luxury Trade (Commercial)
Bank 160/0/3 +50% Tax Output [Marketplace] (Commercial)
*Stock Exchange 200/0/4 +50% Tax Output [Bank] (Commercial) The Corporation

Trade
Harbor 80/0/1 Allows Water Trade, Increases Food in Water (Commercial, Coastal)
Air Port 160/0/2 Allows Air Trade, 1 Pollution {Oil} (Commercial)

Military
Walls 20/0/0 +50% Defense, 12 Bombard Defense (Militaristic)
Coastal Fortress 40/0/1 16 Naval Power, 12 Naval Bombard Defense {Iron, Saltpeter} (Militaristic, Coastal)
Barracks 80/0/1 Veteran Ground Units (Militaristic) Warrior Code
*Port Facility 120/0/2 Veteran Sea Units [Harbor] (Militaristic, Coastal) Astronomy
*Airforce Installation 160/0/3 Veteran Air Units [Airport] {Oil} (Militaristic) Flight

Production
*Mill 160/0/2 +25% Production, Must be Near a River; Engineering
Factory 240/0/4 +50% Production, 2 Pollution {Iron}
Manufactoring Plant 320/0/5 +50% Production, 1 Pollution [Factory] {Aluminum}
Coal Plant 160/0/4 +50% Production, 3 Pollution [Factory] {Coal}
Hydro Plant 240/0/4 +50% Production, Must be Near a River [Factory] {Iron}
Solar Plant 320/0/4 +50% Production [Factory] {Rubber}
Nuclear Plant 240/0/4 +100% Production, 1 Pollution, Must be Near Water, Can Explode or Meltdown [Factory] {Uranium}
Offshore Platform 240/0/3 Increases Shields in Water, 2 Pollution (Coastal)

Research
Library 80/2/1 +50% Research Output (Scientific)
University 200/3/3 +50% Research Output [Library] (Scientific)
*Public School 200/1/2 +50% Research Output
Research Lab 240/1/4 +50% Research Output [University] (Scientific)

Corruption
Courthouse 80/0/1 Resistant to Propaganda, Reduces Corruption
*Newspaper 120/1/2 Reduces Corruption [Library] Printing Press
Police Station 160/0/2 Reduces Corruption, Reduces War Weariness [Courthouse]

Growth
Granary 60/0/1 Doubles City Growth Rate
Aqueduct 100/0/1 Allows City Size Level 2
Hospital 160/0/2 Allows City Size Level 3

Pollution
Mass Transit 200/0/3 Removes Population Pollution {Rubber}
Recycling Center 200/0/3 Removes Building Pollution

Cultural
*Forum 60/2/1
*Theater 160/4/2 Free Artistry
*Museum 240/6/4 [Theater] Atomic Theory

Wonders
Happiness
Hanging Gardens
Oracle
Sistine Chapel
Shakespeare's Theater
JS Bacg's Cathedral
Cure for Cancer

Economic
Colossus
Wall Street

Trade
Great Lighthouse
Magellan's Voyage
Smith's Trading Company

Military
Great Wall
Sun Tzu's Art of War
Leonardo's Workshop
Universal Suffrage
Manhattan Project
Heroic Epic
Military Academy
Pentagon
Strategic Missile Defense
Intelligence Agency
Battlefield Medicine

Production
Hoover Dam
Iron Works

Research
Great Library
Copernicus's Observatory
Newton's University
Theory of Evolution
SETI Program
Apollo Program

Corruption
Forbidden Palace

Growth
Longevity

Pollution
N/A

Cultural
Pyramids
United Nations

Space Ship Parts
SS Thrusters
SS Engine
SS Docking Bay
SS Cockpit
SS Fuel Cells
SS Life Support System
SS Stasis Chamber
SS Storage/Supply
SS Planetary Party Lounge
SS Exterior Casing

i think that there are some ideas you could incorporate into your mod in there, basically the main goals of my mod are to improve combat, fix late game tedium as much as possible, and give increase the overall experiance of playing civ3

if you see something interesting that you don't understand or just wanna discuss things in general please feel free to ask