Occupations of citizens

In Civ2, most of the citizens of a city are farmers and miners and work on the tiles around the city. If not, they can have only 3 occupations, as we know.
Now, I think that’s not a good representation.
People in cities are mostly fed by the farmers living outside and have other occupations themselves. So I’d suggest the following:
As before as many tiles around the cities are worked on as there are citizens, representing the nearby farmers who supply the city.
The citizens themselves are assigned to special occupations.

I could imagine the following occupations:
Worker: These citizens use the shields-output from the surroundings producing city-improvements and units. (maximum of workers depends on shield production in the city)
Farmer/Miner: Additionally to the outside-farmers you could use them to work on outside tiles (limit is the number of not automatically worked tiles around the city).
Craftsman: The craftsmen produce special trade-goods you can use for trade. The trade goods they produce could either be random or depend on nearby special-resources.
Scientist: like in Civ2, but additionally scientists reduce the chance for plagues (the doctors among them), and maybe increase the possibility for sudden inventions by a genius (max.1/8, available with Philosophy)
Artist/ Entertainer: They work as in Civ2 reducing unhappiness
Merchant/Capitalist: Like the taxmen in Civ2 giving additional money
Official: Officials establish order, even if people are unhappy, make the construction in the of city improvements go faster but also cost money. Depending on the government they could maybe increase/lower corruption.


Certain tech-advances could make the different occupations become more efficient, like University for Scientists. Even if a city lacks a university its scientists will probably be academic (of course building a university would increase the output even more)

Now everyone will cry: Too much micromanagement!!!! I think the AI should make the composition of citizens occupation depending on the SE-parameters. In totalitarian governments though people could be “forced” to their occupation. The maximum amount of people with the same special occupations could be limited on the different forms of gov. In a Monarchy 1/10 of the population could be unproductive (Aristocracy).
Lots of additions can be done to this idea, maybe somehow represent Unemployment.

So, this is enough to open discussion I think.

[DarkCloud]

This is good and it is like 'Colonization'

However the officials idea is a good new idea designed to elliminate those abstract notions- 'temples' and 'colosseums' that would work for the time when they came avaliable but not in the modern world.

[Youngsun]

Well done! wernazuma this is one of my favourites.
I want this thread flourished with full of good idea.
Micromanagement? I would loved to micromanage these aspects of the game seriously that's what this game is all about "MICROMANAGE".

I love micromanagement if that can bring fun.
[This message has been edited by Youngsun (edited September 01, 2000).]

[Deathwalker]

Good idea, just Colonization, which was a great game

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I have walked since the dawn of time and were ever I walk, death is sure to follow

[Blomman]

This is a great idea, they should definitly build something on this. And Sid Meier should be familiar with the idea, since it is very similar to Colonization. I like the idea the they should get more efficiant with the discovery of new techs. Perhaps the differnt governments also should have a greater effect on the production. What do you think?
As mentioned above I hope that more people comments on this topic.

[UltraSonix]

Hate to spoil the optomistic attitude here, but I tihnk SMAC already has enough range of people (just give them different names for Civ3):
-Technician - more economy
-Doctor - more happy
-Librarian - more research
-Engineer - more economy, research
-Empath - more economy, happiness
-Thinker - more happy, science
-Transend - more economy, happy, science

I think this is quite a good, diverse range.

Also,

quote: Certain tech-advances could make the different occupations become more efficient, like University for Scientists. Even if a city lacks a university its scientists will probably be academic (of course building a university would increase the output even more)

This is already done indirectly - since a scientist produces light bulbs, and a uni increases light bulbs by 50%, then the uni is already helping the scientist!

And yes, Colonisation was a great game!

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No, in Australia we don't live with kangaroos and koalas in our backyards...

don't forget that more occupations lead to more micromanagement and also less playability

we want a normal civilization game and not the game that ruined the name civilization!!!!!

Yes, micromanagament IS the problem with occupations, but maybe they could somehow be "assigned" by the AI depending on your SE-settings.
e.g.: a high bureaucracy setting creates more officials
Or a city with much "arrows" gets more merchants, a city with high special resources more craftsmen etc.

Good Idea. It would not be to much micromanagement, because in civ2, the computer assigns a good spot for the worker automatically. Maybe you could set percents, saying. 20% should be miners, 5% should be officials, etc., and the computer will set it so you get that amount of each.

Sure, the idea seems similar to colonization, but still the main point is, that citizens should be more than farmers/miners. In Colonization you had to draw so much attention to the occupation of your people because the whole economy was based on what your citizens produced. How well you performed depended mostly on how efficiently you assigned professions for your citizens. In Civ occupations should not be excluded, but either be the most important part.

I think my concept is much more generalized than in Colonization.
It would be great if we could think of creating a system of "social difference" based on the occupations model. If not most citizens are farmers/miners (even the "happy upper class" is working on tiles producing food), social difference could be possibly represented in a better way.

The "Economic Status" (and happiness)of Officials, Scientists and Workers could depend on how much you, the gov, give them, Craftsmen and merchants need a market to sell their goods (establishing trade routes), otherwise becoming poor.
Lamentably I'm absolutely no technical guy, so I know there's little coherence in my ideas.
Tell me, how do you think social differences should be implemented to the game (I think it's a must)?

[Youngsun]

wernazuma is on the right track I guess. Keep the wheel rolling mate!

[Az]

DP
[This message has been edited by Dalgetti (edited September 02, 2000).]

[Az]

Dalgetti :What about the Laborer ?? Like in CtP !

everybody looks at each other silently .

Dalgetti :What ? What's Wrong ?

everybody starts picking up things ...

Dalgetti : Was it something I said ?

everybody starts throwing stones and beer cans on Dalgetti ....


aarrgghhh !


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We don't prohibit smoking . We discourage inhaling .

[Shadowstrike]

On the other hand, we still have those stretegies which rely on repositioning citizens, which would become obsolete because of this system. For example, readjusting you're trade income so that extra science isn't wasted, etc.

Dreadlord Shadowstrike: it's strategy not stretegy

my DL's name was Strategist not Streteegist... or wasn't that you who called my DL Streteegist? don't remember correctly, pity

Still the fact remains that most inhabitants in cities are farmers and there's no depth in the inner social-system.
OK, some spontaneous ideas on social difference:
Assume, the general wealth of city is calculated like in Civ2, and assume that those “arrows” which go to research and luxury are actually money expenditures (the whole mixing up taxes and science is , but that’s another topic):
This general wealth is 10folded and then distributed on the citizens, only the “payment” of officials and scientists would be the same in every city.
For each economy SE-setting there would be
a) a factor the total city wealth is multiplied with
b) a formula like e.g. Merchant: 5 fractions of total city wealth; Worker and Farmer/Miner: 1 fraction; Craftsmen: 3 fractions; Artists: 2 fractions

Free Market then would have a better factor for total wealth but also create high inequality.
2 factors then could create unhappiness:
a) a citizen that would get more money in another economic system
b) those who get less money than a certain minimum amount

[DarkCloud]

Say the government changes the citizens abilities.

In a free market they produce the same amount of food/shields but they produce +1 Trade
In a democracy/fundy/republic/despotism they produce the same amount of food/trade but they produce +1 Shields
In a communism/monarcy they produce the same amount of shields/trade but they produce +1 Food

[This message has been edited by DarkCloud (edited September 17, 2000).]

* BUMP * Any more on this?