Another Age of War PBEM - Page 23

Case · July 8, 2002, 19:22

Quote:

Originally posted by The ANZAC
That has happened to me inexplicably in other PBEMs as well. Somehow I doubt it is cheating: why would anyone be stupid enough to pass on the doctored file

*hopes no-one notices my vast fleet of jet bombers*

I've noticed it as well & I don't think that it's anything to worry about.

winterfritz · July 8, 2002, 20:19

Quote:

Originally posted by JamesJKirk
Hmmm, my game no longer has a password, does anyone know why this could be?

Perhaps General AI has escaped from that military prison and is causing havoc again. I'll check during my turn

JamesJKirk · July 8, 2002, 21:31

Okay, here's my turn. The sign for me that things were amiss was that when I saved the game the first time, my name was my password, so I checked it out and all that. But I reopened the save and have my name correct and a new password, so all is good. I'm sending my turn to ANZAC, because this computer is a punk.

winterfritz · July 9, 2002, 06:25

Well guys, its the holidays and I was bored... and I was reading the debate about the minorities again... and so I went and made some follow ups for those maps I posted a while back.

Here they are: ethnic populations of three major powers. I got these figures by finding the proportion of a given area's population to the total population of the country. EG to get the Spanish percentage of the population of the Third Republic, I found the total population of all the cities I own in Spain and then the percentage that was of my whole population.

Turkey first:

winterfritz · July 9, 2002, 06:27

Heres Russia:

winterfritz · July 9, 2002, 06:29

And finally, good ol' France:

winterfritz · July 9, 2002, 06:34

Isn't it interesting that Russia, by asking for more 'influence' over the Orthodox minority in the Ottoman Empire is actually attempting to gain control of a fifth of its population? Isn't it also interesting that Russia is so concerned about a minority in another country when there are so many minorities in Russia that Russians themselves are a minority?

The ANZAC · July 9, 2002, 09:41

This is conspiracy against Russia! France is trying to falsify the statitics in order to undermine the Russian position in Europe!

Let's look at my chart:

First, I have the plurality so Russians may not have a majority, but they do have the largest number out of all. Second, Russia also finds more in common with it's Slavic brethren, so if you count the other Slavic groups as well as the Russians, the "Pan-Slavs" have a 65% majority.

There.

The ANZAC · July 9, 2002, 10:18

and now...the save.

winterfritz · July 9, 2002, 12:32

Quote:

Originally posted by The ANZAC
Russia also finds more in common with it's Slavic brethren, so if you count the other Slavic groups as well as the Russians, the "Pan-Slavs" have a 65% majority.

Its funny that Russia suddenly has found she has so much in common with the Slavs in her empire. French observers wonder whether the ethnic groups in question would be as happy at suddenly being lumped with their oppressors in a 65% 'Pan-Slav majority.' Events such as the continuing pogroms, rebellions and viciously suppressed demonstrations in non-Russian areas of the Empire, suggest otherwise. Even for the Russians this seems a remarkable turnaround in opinion, given that normally they feel threatened enough by their Slavic 'brethren' to carry out the vicious and inhumane policy of Russification in areas such as the Ukraine, White Russia, Poland, Finland and the Baltic provinces.

In fact, its very funny that Russia should be concerned about the fitness of the Ottoman government to rule the Orthodox Christians under its jurisdiction when she has such a long history of maltreatment of the many minorities under her fist. The Ukrainian language is forbidden throughout the Russian Empire. Long standing Polish desires to again become an independent nation are brutally crushed, as in 1830-1, 1846, and 1863, while political parties are banned in Russian Poland to this day. Despite strikes and protests, all violently repressed, Finland's autonomous priveleges were abolished in 1899 and Finnish language and newspapers forbidden. Pogroms, a nineteenth century anachronism in civilized Europe, continue in Russia, occurring as recently as in 1903. Everywhere brutal Russification is utilized in an effort to stifle the independent peoples and cultures chafing under Russian tyranny, while the ubiquitous Okhrana use violence and murder to cement the autocracy of St.Petersburg.

Maybe a more important issue than the treatment of less than a million Orthodox Christians by Turkey is the recent acquisition by Russia of many millions of Central European peoples of various nationality; given the Russian Empire's long and consistent record with its ethnic minorities perhaps we would do better to save the Hungarians, Czechs and Germans from joining their neighbours in the misery of repression and Russification.

Quote:

Originally posted by The ANZAC
This is conspiracy against Russia! France is trying to falsify the statitics in order to undermine the Russian position in Europe!

There is no false data here. These are the facts. Can't you handle them?

Case · July 9, 2002, 19:27

4th Fleet Sights Russian Fleet off Istanbul!

While en-route to a good will visit to Istanbul, the sailors of the 2nd Destroyer Squadron were shocked to discoved a vast Russian fleet just outside Turkish waters! As the 4th Fleet is new to the Black Sea, fleet inteligence cannot determine whether this is a normal deployment, or the build up to something more sinister.

Pressident Case's Head Hurts

An angy President Case has banished all his ethnic and religious advisors from the Presidential Palace for 48 hours. Speaking to reporters the President said "I got tired of their yabbering about the obscure religious and ethnic groups of Eastern Europe, and had my guards throw them out before I shot one of them". The President was later sighted heading towards the nearest pub.

Below: An exclusive graphic showing the Russians spotted by the 4th Fleet

Case · July 9, 2002, 19:30

And here's the file.

Incidently I'm going up to Sydney this afternoon and won't be back untill Friday morning

The ANZAC · July 9, 2002, 22:18

Quote:

Originally posted by winterfritz There is no false data here. These are the facts. Can't you handle them?

NO! Grrh, neverous...breakdown...must stop those...responsible...can't talk--mrrph, mrprh

Also my response to what you have said is this. All of the events mentioned occurred before the current government took power. So as long as the Ottoman Empire holds no responsibility for previous actions, so will Russia. Also the recent conversion to democracy has brought great advances in public health, productivity, and general living conditions, as well as allows freedom to all it's subjects. Also the Russian Confederacy is highly decentralized, leaving the indigenous people to mostly govern themselves. That is more than what I can say about the Ottoman Empire which was a despotic monarchy and now is in total anarchy.

As for the Black Sea Fleet we are entitled to stay where we are, as during the Austro-German War, the 2 space buffer zone between sovereign shores and ships was established and generally accepted. Also our Fleet was on secret exercises, which are now breached due to its spotting. Nonetheless, the Russian Confederacy is open to withdrawing the ships by the asking of a legitimate Turkish government, however the Ottoman Empire is in a revolution and total anarchy. Only once a provisional government is established that can stop the revolution and ensure internal stability and peace, will Russia be willing to hear requests for the removal of the fleet.

winterfritz · July 9, 2002, 22:49

Quote:

Originally posted by The ANZAC
As for the Black Sea Fleet we are entitled to stay where we are, as during the Austro-German War, the 2 space buffer zone between sovereign shores and ships was established and generally accepted. Also our Fleet was on secret exercises, which are now breached due to its spotting. Nonetheless, the Russian Confederacy is open to withdrawing the ships by the asking of a legitimate Turkish government, however the Ottoman Empire is in a revolution and total anarchy. Only once a provisional government is established that can stop the revolution and ensure internal stability and peace, will Russia be willing to hear requests for the removal of the fleet.

This is plainly yet another ploy designed to exploit the temporary collapse of authority in the Ottoman Empire. A secret 'exercise' bringing a powerful battlefleet so close to the presently helpless Turkish capitol is a blatant act of imperialist aggression which we will not tolerate. On behalf of the Turkish people France demands Russia withdraw these ships immediately. The Ottomans must be allowed to resolve their internal problems unmolested, just as you were when you became a 'democratic confederacy.' How would you have liked foreign battleships just off St.Petersburg during your own period of internal unrest?

winterfritz · July 9, 2002, 23:06

Rhineland Cleanup Complete
Birds sing in the Ardennes and fish fill the Rhine once more as French engineers finish cleaning all industrial waste from the Rhineland provinces. A special engineer corps has been formed to address any future accidents or pollution caused by the area's heavy industry.

French Navy on Alert
Following the news that recent Russian threats to Turkish sovereignty had culminated in the appearance of a powerful battlefleet alarmingly close to Istanbul, the French navy was placed on alert status. As the French Foreign Minister released a statement to the press that vowed France was ready to do 'whatever is necessary to preserve the independence of the Turkish people,' two battleships accompanied by supporting elements of the Mediterranean Squadron left their docks in French Tunisia for training exercises in the east Mediterranean.

The battleships Jaureguiberry and Bouvet steam through the Mediterranean

The ANZAC · July 9, 2002, 23:09

Russia ignores the French threats to its rights by International Law. However the Russian Confederacy will will promise not to attack the Turks during their turmoil without provocation, and the other powers are welcome to enforce this.

winterfritz · July 9, 2002, 23:48

Quote:

Originally posted by The ANZAC
the Russian Confederacy will will promise not to attack the Turks during their turmoil without provocation, and the other powers are welcome to enforce this.

France cannot but laugh cynically at Russian 'promises.' No doubt the beleaguered Turks will soon be discovered as the perpetrators of just such an imaginary 'provocation' and become victims of a brutal Russian sneak attack like the Austrians before them.

We reiterate our demands that the ships be moved away from Istanbul. Should Russia not comply, we will enforce a trade embargo with Russia as well as send ships to safeguard Turkish waters.

winterfritz · July 10, 2002, 00:07

And heres the map showing the latest changes:

Cyrion · July 10, 2002, 05:30

An official statement regarding all the previous posts will be delivered as soon as an official spokesperson has been found, hopefully tonight...

BTW: nice to see you've more time now, Winterfritz!!

The studies of the "Ecole Polytechnique de Paris" have been fully appreciated...

The ANZAC · July 10, 2002, 09:31

Quote:

Originally posted by winterfritz No doubt the beleaguered Turks will soon be discovered as the perpetrators of just such an imaginary 'provocation' and become victims of a brutal Russian sneak attack like the Austrians before them.

Russia laughs at hypocritical statements like this one, as France also "sneak-attacked" Austria and took territory. Also she has not addressed that the Russian ships are within Internationally agreed upon water borders.

Quote:

We reiterate our demands that the ships be moved away from Istanbul. Should Russia not comply, we will enforce a trade embargo with Russia as well as send ships to safeguard Turkish waters.

We have nothing against France nor the Ottoman Empire, we do not wish war, but if it comes to this, there might be no other choice.

winterfritz · July 10, 2002, 10:32

Quote:

Originally posted by The ANZAC
Russia laughs at hypocritical statements like this one, as France also "sneak-attacked" Austria and took territory.

France is sorely puzzled by the above statement. We never attacked Austria. The only Austrian territory we own is the city of Regensburg, which was purchased from the Russian government (and at a good price too.) France is a peaceloving and civilized nation that would never contemplate such aggression and we ask that the Russian government retract this hurtful and untrue comment.

Quote:

Originally posted by The ANZAC
We have nothing against France nor the Ottoman Empire, we do not wish war, but if it comes to this, there might be no other choice.

We also have no wish for war. As stated before, we are a civilized, peace-loving nation; our only interest in this situation is preserving the independence of our friends the Turkish people.

Seeing that we have reached an impasse that could lead to disastrous conflict, France proposes an alternative solution. For a while now French observers have been monitoring the turmoil in Istanbul; one faction, led by a Young Turk known as Cyrion, seems now poised to take control of the capitol and bring central authority back to the Ottoman Empire's scattered realms.

We propose that this faction, already so close to becoming the leaders of the Empire de jure be simply recognised as the de facto government. French representatives will be able to put the Russian government in touch with Cyrion and forward any demands concerning the battlefleet off Istanbul. All we ask is that Russia respect the sovereignty of the Turkish people and obey these demands, whatever they may be.

The ANZAC · July 10, 2002, 10:43

The Russian Confederacy apologizes for this mistake aginst the French. It was issued by an anti-government anarcho-syndicalist in the State Department, wishing for war to have his colleagues seize power and he has summarily been fired and the anarcho-sydicalist and nihilist groups in Russia are currently under investigation.

Due to this appalling mistake, and as by the fact that the Black Sea Fleet has been inspecting for itself, Russia accepts the faction lead by Cyrion as the de facto government in the Anatolya and would be open to hearing requests from the provisional government.

winterfritz · July 10, 2002, 20:13

Quote:

Originally posted by The ANZAC
The Russian Confederacy apologizes for this mistake aginst the French. It was issued by an anti-government anarcho-syndicalist in the State Department, wishing for war to have his colleagues seize power and he has summarily been fired and the anarcho-sydicalist and nihilist groups in Russia are currently under investigation.

Due to this appalling mistake, and as by the fact that the Black Sea Fleet has been inspecting for itself, Russia accepts the faction lead by Cyrion as the de facto government in the Anatolya and would be open to hearing requests from the provisional government.

France gratefully accepts the Russian apology, and commends the Russian desire to work through diplomacy rather than the sword. This whole situation can now be resolved without a single shot disturbing the European peace.

winterfritz · July 10, 2002, 20:26

OOC: Me and Anzac were online last night discussing the possibility of resurrecting the German civ that was completely destroyed in more unenlightened times. Apparently, as can be seen in Anzac's thread, CivTweak can 'switch back on' a destroyed civ.

I tried this today, and indeed, by using CivTweak and CivCity one can resurrect the dead civ. I suggest we give it a worthless city somewhere and 'keep it on ice' like the Spanish, ready to create a new country when we want to.

Just one thing: when attempting to play this new civ it asked for a password, so if we do eventually use it again someone will have to find the old German password (if it is still this same one) or call in handyman-Henrik

Cyrion · July 11, 2002, 00:34

The Democratic Federation of Turkey is born

Following the last weeks of anarchy in the Empire, a joint declaration from the Sultan Abd-ul Hamid II and the leader of the Young Turks Enver Pasha today proclamed the end of the Revolution!

Anxious not to let the turkish people suffer from a civil war, both sides agreed to discuss the future of the country and luckily an agreement has been found!

It has to be mentioned that the Sultan was more worried about the fate of Turkey than about his own power and once more proved to be an honorable man whose only failure was to have been born a few decades to late! Nonetheless, without his hard work in the last years to bring the Empire into the 20th Century, the future of the Nation would be dark indeed!

The new Turkish Constitution, on which Young Turks politicians, scientists, jurists, economists and officers have been working for month is loosely based on the swiss model. The Federation of the different parts of Turkey will allow for a good representation of the regions and various minorities, ethnical as well as religious, composing the Nation.

Regional elections are expected to be held in 3 month, presidential ones in 6 month. During the transition, the executive power will be in the hands of a man whose political shrewdness and dedication to the turkish cause nobody can doubt, the former Grand Vizier: Acting Prime Minister Cyrion!

Cyrion · July 11, 2002, 12:01

Economical development

Thanks to the newly installed Trans-Europe Express, tons of freight reached France in the last weeks, bringing riches and prosperity to both Nations.

Many improvements were built in the country while the infrastructure was developed as well.

Lybia peacefully leaves Turkey

Shortly after the institution of the new Constitution, a Referendum was held in all the regions of the Nation to ask whether they wanted to be part of the new Turkish Democratic State or would rather join another nation. The majority was clear : while all the other regions wanted to remain Turk with an overwhelming majority, the Lybian cities of Tripoli and Sirte wanted to join France. So the turkish garnisons peacefully left the cities, which were transfered to France.

Message to Russia

Acting Prime Minister Cyrion today received the Ambassador of Russia to talk about the Black Sea Russian Fleet.

Though Turkey doesn't contest the right of Russia to have ships in the international waters, we would like the Russians to keep their battleships a bit further from Istanbul: the citizens are still a bit nervous after the last few weeks which have been quite intense and it would be easier for them to settle down if they were not seeing those mighty juggernaughts a few miles off our coast. We don't doubt that the Russian government will understand our worries.

Cyrion · July 11, 2002, 12:03

And I forgot the save twice in a row: I intended to write only 1 post!!!

Here it is:

The ANZAC · July 11, 2002, 13:21

Russia will comply with Request

Russia will remove the Black Sea Fleet within the next month. Also Russia would like to ask where Trans-Europe Express is running

We are currently working on connecting the Balkans, but so far, we have not met any railroads. The Russian Confederacy would appreciate if Turkey and the rest of Europe would help enlighten us on this matter.

Germany--Again?!

In the recent meetings with the French over the Ottoman Situation, the re-formation of Germany came up. Both the French and Russian envoys concurred that a free Germany would be best for Europe. They agreed that this should be decided upon at a later time, but never specified when. The Russian envoys are expected soon to offer a proposal and plan for the Re-formation.

JamesJKirk · July 11, 2002, 15:21

Britain is happy that with the peaceful developments in Turkey and outside, and extends its recognition to the Democratic Federation of Turkey.

The idea of resurrecting a German state is interesting and should be looked into.

OOC: It may take an extra day or so for me, as I'm in the process of moving and whatnot. But I'll definitely have my turn done and posted this weekend.

Case · July 11, 2002, 19:40

Turks Congratulated

The Italian Government wishes to congratulate Turkey for it's liberal reforms. Like the people of Italy, it appears that the good folk of Turkey have finally removed the albatross of monarchy from their collective necks and have replaced it with the wings of progress upon their backs.

President Case has offered the services of his 'political advisors' to Acting Prime Minister Cyrion should he decide to contest his country's upcoming elections.