I challenge you to find...

Expatriate · January 13, 2002, 11:59

An a game that has an active online community, where the boards do NOT get rants and complaints similar to those seen here.

You wont find it, but good luck trying. A few good examples of recently published games where this is the case would be Anarchy Online, Dark Age of Camelot and offcourse Civilization III.

No game can live up to the hype created by the fans themselves.

Yolky · January 13, 2002, 12:22

HMMM. I beleive the HYPE was created by Firaxis on thier web sit before Civ3 was released and Infogrames on thier advertisments.

I for one believed the HYPE and got the Special Edtion. What highway robbery.

HMM. Lets have a poll here. Who did the Hyping? The company or the fans?

I believe it was the companies as I said before. Us fans were just dying for Civ3 to come out with the promises of what to come. I know everything was said about what it came and not came with or what it has and dosnt had.

So who was it.

Expatriate what is your opnion?

Davor

Expatriate · January 13, 2002, 12:31

My point here is that most of the things you see people complaining about are thing they only complain about because someone else brought it to their attention.

If you had played Civ III without ever read anyone else rant and complain about it, you would have been happy.

But why not take up my challenge instead of blaming Firaxis? You wont find that holy grail of perfect gaming anywhere, because once there is an online community the unhappiness is contagious.

ACooper · January 13, 2002, 12:37

It's just normal human psychology for people to jump on the bandwagon, especially if it is something negative. You see a lot of that here and in other forums. Your point is well taken.

BTW Yolky, it's not hype, it's marketing. I believe they delivered on all their promises.

SlowwHand · January 13, 2002, 12:44

They never said it would be SP only.

ACooper · January 13, 2002, 12:50

Quote:

Originally posted by SlowwHand
They never said it would be SP only.

Umm... Yes they did. More than a month before the released the game. It was major news on any of the Civ sites

Yolky · January 13, 2002, 17:05

Again I will not go into what was promised and what wasn't.

If i never notice any threads I still would be P'D OFF since I can't have starting locations for any Civs in the editor, as an example.(lets not get into that again its been hashed again and again) but I do see you point though.

I am having fun with the game but miss my diplomats and other stealth units ala CtP2.

Having fun and hope you are too.

Davor

TechWins · January 13, 2002, 17:57

If you actually did read this board over the summer then you would know that Firaxis made many promises that failed to come true. You may call them marketing schemes, which is true to some extent, but I would like to call them blatant lies.

Phoenix · January 13, 2002, 18:45

I can only speak for myself, but I played the game through a couple times before I even read any of these posts. So I must disagree completely with Expatriate. The fact that people complain could probably be interperted more productively as meaning that game deign needs to be better, not that the public should expect less.

People always complain about their government, does this mean the government should ignore those complaints? Would they stop complaining if they didn't hear it from someone else first? No and no. Same principle, just exaggerated.

ACooper · January 13, 2002, 20:31

Quote:

Originally posted by TechWins
If you actually did read this board over the summer then you would know that Firaxis made many promises that failed to come true. You may call them marketing schemes, which is true to some extent, but I would like to call them blatant lies.

Maybe broken promises at worst. Bad marketing sure. They souldn't have told ungratefull spoiled brats anything.

BTW, I have been here since 1999. I haven't posted much in the past, but I can't stand to sit by while the negative people have nothing better to do than post their lies. How bout some honesty from yourself before riping on a poor helpless company.

quicksilver417 · January 13, 2002, 20:47

I got the hype from, my cuzin
he showed me his diety american in future age and i just said, wow!!!

yin26 · January 13, 2002, 20:55

The Europa Universalis boards lack virtually ANY of the rants you see here. And when the occasional rants shows up, the developers are usually quick to address the concerns in an open, public and consistent way.

And then for some mysterious reason, the rants subside and productive talk begins. Coincidence? Hmmm....

yin26 · January 13, 2002, 21:07

Europa Universalis.

Here's another. Space Empires 4. Also widely and publically supported by its developers.

And then we have Poly. Gee...

Ironikinit · January 13, 2002, 21:18

TRUE DAT.

The EU forums don't have much flames at all. And when somebody shows up complaining about how the game crashes or how bad the AI is, the community makes fun of them and tells them to calm down.

The Sissyfight boards only allow rants and flames in one forum. There are a few cranks who stick around to complain about the game but not many.

ACooper · January 13, 2002, 21:50

Quote:

The EU forums don't have much flames at all. And when somebody shows up complaining about how the game crashes or how bad the AI is, the community makes fun of them and tells them to calm down.

Is this support for us whiners of whiners?

yin26 · January 13, 2002, 21:54

I think it shows that when a developer is properly supporting the game, forums become self-policing.

ACooper · January 13, 2002, 21:56

Yin, just pulling your chain.

yin26 · January 13, 2002, 21:59

Actually, I'd most likely be right there with you whining about the whiners if we had a firmer leg to stand on.

TechWins · January 14, 2002, 01:20

Quote:

Maybe broken promises at worst. Bad marketing sure. They souldn't have told ungratefull spoiled brats anything.

What is your point with this childish remark? That you honestly can't come up with an excuse for Firaxis' poor PR, so you make a lame insult. Also, what should I be grateful for? The lies Firaxis told all of us; oh yeah those were awesome! How about some more Firaxis? The reason why I blame Firaxis very harshly for their lies is because they knew their limits in what they could include with Civ3, yet, they continued to make false accusations about Civ3. Putting off the fact that they wouldn't be able to include MP with the game until a month before release, when they knew that they would not be able to include MP because of time restraints. Now if Firaxis didn't know that they wouldn't be able to include MP and other features with Civ3, over the summer, something is seriously screwed up with that company. Now lets hear your pathetic rebutle...

Quote:

BTW, I have been here since 1999. I haven't posted much in the past, but I can't stand to sit by while the negative people have nothing better to do than post their lies. How bout some honesty from yourself before riping on a poor helpless company

I only speak the truth, and I'm sorry that you were unaware of the wrong doings of Firaxis. I don't mean to bad mouth your beloved Firaxis; I only want the truth to be known about them, and if that truth has some nasty points about Firaxis then so be it. Get over it, no matter how much you suck up to Firaxis, Sid won't go over to your house and fulfill your deepest fantasies about him.

TechWins · January 14, 2002, 01:24

Yes, I do realize I was being a complete hipocrit because of my first and last sentence.

Ironikinit · January 14, 2002, 01:56

All I was trying to point out about the EU boards was that EVEN THOUGH EU HAS BIG PROBLEMS the community supports it. It could have something to do with the forums being on the official site or something.

EU really does have big problems, too. Bad AI, big bugs, but since the basic game is quite good, people like it. I think another problem with Civ 3 is that it's a sequel and no matter what with a sequel some people are going to like the original better. Funny when you stop and think that it's a sequel of a sequel. However, Civ 3 has radical changes from Civ 2, unlike the progression from EU to EU 2 or Civ to Civ 2.

jackshot · January 14, 2002, 02:25

TechWins really overstates his message, but his criticism of Sh*ggyRA's argument is well taken.

It doesn't really matter what Firaxis promised or didn't promise, except as a peek into how their words connect with their actions.

Point is Firaxis is in business to give people what they want, which is why they were making statements in the first place. It was what people wanted to hear then. Nearly everyone wanted this game to be something special, all Firaxis did was put a face on what that specialness was to be.

Their problems are stemming from the fact that none of the obvious compromises are for anything of tangible value to the consumer. They didn't compromise the editor so the diplomacy would be completely finished, for example. Sure, people may not have been specifically looking for certain features had not Firaxis mentioned them, but they still would have wanted that vague specialness - and I don't think this game, even if Firaxis had stayed mum beforehand, would have scratched that itch.

Internal deadlines and publisher skirmishes come under the heading of "not my problem", just like Firaxis doesn't want to hear about what I went through at work to make the $50.

yin26 · January 14, 2002, 02:28

Quote:

Just like Firaxis doesn't want to hear about what I went through at work to make the $50.

Great point.

TechWins · January 14, 2002, 02:53

Quote:

TechWins really overstates his message

How can you say I'm overstating my message? If you can honestly and unbiasedly say that Firaxis didn't blatantly lie to fans to sell their game, then I will agree with you that I am overstating my message, otherwise, my point is right on target.

Quote:

It doesn't really matter what Firaxis promised or didn't promise, except as a peek into how their words connect with their actions.

I sure do think it does matter what Firaxis promised and didn't promise. If it didn't then it would have been alright for them to promise everybody that when they play Civ3 they will have many treasures come their way. Well, obviously I'm exaggarating a bit, but it's the principle on the matter of them lying blatantly. I'm not angry that Civ3 didn't live up to my expectations, however I am dissapointed, but I am angry that Firaxis, again I'll use this word, blatantly lied to all of us about the features of Civ3. There is a big difference between blatantly lying and marketing your product. What Firaxis did was a mixture of marketing and blatant lying, but mainly it consisted of blatant lying.

I'm actually not as angry about the whole situation as I mean seem, in fact I could care less, but it's the principle of how poorly Firaxis treated theirs fans and continues to treat their fans. A simple reply of "yeah Firaxis could use better PR but..." doesn't cut it. Firaxis, just flat out, is pathetic when it comes to PR, and they're not all that great at game designing, either.

Hopefully the creation of Civ3 will be able to overcome these downfaults and it will eventually wind up to be far better than the game we all came to love.

Ironikinit · January 14, 2002, 02:58

You're lucky I don't flame your whiny ****ing gobs.

You don't wanna hear about anybody's viewpoint but yours.

I wanted this game for X mas and they had it out. You had to bust your ass for your 50? Imagine what these guys had to go through to get this game out. Do you think you could do better? Go ahead. Everybody else has it easy to hear you guys talk.

If you don't like the game as it is with the patch you don't like the game. That falls under the heading of "Not my problem".

This is a Civ 3 forum, dedicated to the use by people who like the game. You should respect that at least a little. You got a beef fine but NOT MY PROBLEM turn into yet another craptastic complaint marathon. WHAT'S GOOD FOR ME MIGHT NOT BE SO GOOD FOR YOU BUT NOT MY PROBLEM. I don't care about you. I'm sorry if you don't agree but that's the point. There's no equalizer. That is (down by law)

Too bad there isn't a multiplayer but I really am glad they didn't delay the release date. I don't want to wait around so that somebody I don't know will be happy. Maybe it needed more play testing but if you can't stand the game as it is now you won't ever like it and should make a forum called I DON'T LIKE CIV 3 and you and everybody like you can post how mad they are that they don't like Civ 3.

Keep complaining about the 50 bucks. I've played more than 50 hours and that's under a buck an hour of entertainment. A movie is like $4 an hour, and a rented video is about a buck an hour. TV is free. However, I'd rather play Civ 3 than watch TV or go out and rent some stupid movie. I'm getting my money's worth and as far as I'm concerned a fan forum should be for people who like the game.

notyoueither · January 14, 2002, 03:15

I think you just did.

Flame his whiny ****ing gobs.

What the hell is gobs?

Salve

jackshot · January 14, 2002, 04:25

Quote:

Originally posted by Ironikinit
You don't wanna hear about anybody's viewpoint but yours.

.... and as far as I'm concerned a fan forum should be for people who like the game.

I'm glad you're happy you got your game by Xmas.

kailhun · January 14, 2002, 04:32

Black Isles Baldur's Gate II boards were not as rabid as this board. But then the product was better and the after sales service was better. Remarkable is perhaps that semi-official patches were created and released by fans (so-called fixpacks). All in all, I'd say customer satisfaction was higher.
But then the hype for BGII was less than Civ III.

Robert

jackshot · January 14, 2002, 04:54

Quote:

Originally posted by TechWins

How can you say I'm overstating my message?

Right here...

Quote:

What Firaxis did was a mixture of marketing and blatant lying, but mainly it consisted of blatant lying.

Not blatant lying. Deadlines loomed, things were missed. I don't really see anything evil in it, and I'm not all that cheesed feeling. But it does bother me that they aren't being candid about where things can be expected to go from here.

I've already paid, but I expect more, a true editor with scenario making for one. I think truly Firaxis will deliver more, I believe they want to make a great game - but let's face it, I could also wake up tomorrow and find they've done an Activision and said "sorry, Charlie".

I don't like the fact Firaxis doesn't feel compelled to dispel this fear. They are deliberately keeping options in play that have no benefit to the consumer or even to them and the continued success of their company.

All of their PR now just boils down to a big escape clause. Why?

Libertarian · January 14, 2002, 05:44

Because to them, it would seem, public relations means keeping the public as far away as possible once the money has been paid.