I challenge you to find...

[FrantzX]

Actually, except for people like Lib, these forums aren't that bad. Of course, I've spent time on Blizzard forums. Nothing compares to THAT hell.

[MonsterMan]

Originally posted by Expatriate
An a game that has an active online community, where the boards do NOT get rants and complaints similar to those seen here.

You wont find it, but good luck trying.

Morrowind.
The answer to any complaint about what is not in the game is: You can change it with the editor. It goes so far as letting modders who are able use Bryce and create 3D objects that can easily be imported into the game.

Morrowind hasn't been released yet, if you're wondering why you haven't heard about it. www.morrowind.com

[Encomium]

Originally posted by Expatriate
My point here is that most of the things you see people complaining about are thing they only complain about because someone else brought it to their attention.

If you had played Civ III without ever read anyone else rant and complain about it, you would have been happy.

DEAD WRONG!!

Civ III is very flawed with lousy naval warfare; too much corruption; no Cheat Mode or scenarios; cheating AI; a dumb AI ; goofy non-historical unit values; uselsss Espionage; and on and on. . .

I discovered all these problems ON MY OWN long before I posted on this or any other forum. I discovered on them that I had plenty of company among those UNHAPPY with Civ III.

[Pembleton]

Originally posted by Expatriate
An a game that has an active online community, where the boards do NOT get rants and complaints similar to those seen here.


You wont find it, but good luck trying. A few good examples of recently published games where this is the case would be Anarchy Online, Dark Age of Camelot and offcourse Civilization III.

No game can live up to the hype created by the fans themselves.

Warlords 2: Battlecry and Disciples 2 are a couple of the most civil I can think of. I believe Kohan was quite civil when I visited it briefly long ago.

Now the key is you said "rants and complaints similar to those seen here". Every forum will get a few complaints now and then but this board is *WAY* out of hand compared to the many I have visited.

Also, the board for Wizardry 8 was filled almost exclusively with praise and I was shocked when I saw the first criticism in about a week after that game first came out.

[Encomium]

Originally posted by Libertarian
Because to them, it would seem, public relations means keeping the public as far away as possible once the money has been paid.

DITTO!

[CharlesUFarley]

Originally posted by Ironikinit
OK, let me get this straight.
People don't mind Charles around here? They don't mind being patronized by a fool? Y'all don't mind posts like the above which quotes an entire post (FROM THE SAME FREAKING THREAD) and adding only one word, an inane symbol, and a signature?

"inane" thats "insane" Y'all don't know how to spell now?

Ming: I was given a warning about this peticular kind of language and imature display of verbal diarea a few months back, I begin to wonder if those same rules apply to our mouthy little friend here?

Well, hey, if that's what y'all like, that's your lookout. I think he's a fool and deserves to be told so. Is he like a mascot or something? Honest, I'm just trying to figure out why such a twit is tolerated. IMO he deserves the intellectual equivilent of tarring and feathering, followed by being ridden on a rail. There really must be standards.

Actually it's real funny, but I think you would almost seem jealous of the attention I am getting, although negative attention, still attention. And again the language issue - perhaps a good bar of soap would do y'all good.

Charles.

[Chronus]

Whining is still allowed, but most people get tired after a while, and the ones that like the game stay. If not you move on...

Not on this board, you don't. If you hate the game, you hang around for weeks and months on end, endlessly repeating the same thing as if by doing so will get you a response.



But all kidding aside, I can understand why some people, whose high expectations haven't been met, hang around with the hopes of improving things. I just question the intensity in which they go about it. Some appear to simply enjoy venting. Of course, we have a similar problem with some of the defensive, rabid fans.

I really enjoy Civ 3 and, consequently, do not appreciate the remarks that insinuate that I'm naive or blinded just because I like the game. I'm confident that the so called "whiners" feel the same way when they're attacked. Whatever happened to the concept of personal opinion? You know, when there is no factual basis for liking or disliking something . . . you just do or don't? Is it really that important to PROVE our point and put the opposite camp in its place?

By the way, I also agree that being up front with your customers, through the good and the bad, is really the best way to go. I understand the "silence" approach, I just don't think it works.

[Expatriate]

Originally posted by MonsterMan



Morrowind.
The answer to any complaint about what is not in the game is: You can change it with the editor. It goes so far as letting modders who are able use Bryce and create 3D objects that can easily be imported into the game.

Morrowind hasn't been released yet, if you're wondering why you haven't heard about it. www.morrowind.com

Offcourse Morrowwind doesnt have board full of whiners, because they havent played the game yet. Before Civ III was released there werent a boatload of whiners ranting about that either. They were busy building up hype, just like the Morrowwind community is now.

Yes, I know Daggerfall and Im looking forward to seeing Morrowwind. But a lot of people are going to be disapointed because of the changes they are making. The game will not be as free and wont allow you to fool and do as you please in the same degree as Daggerfall did. It will cover a smaller area and there are other changes too that bring it away from the concept we loved in Daggerfall. Trust me, there will be whining.

[CharlesUFarley]

Originally posted by Chronus
Not on this board, you don't. If you hate the game, you hang around for weeks and months on end, endlessly repeating the same thing as if by doing so will get you a response.

The repeating is nescisary when newbies come in at half point in the discussion and rival the points and opinions that are being openly expressed by two or more individuals who have been talking about the "subject" for more than one post. Although I do agree it is 'useless' to keep explaining yourself over and over each time a newbie enters the conversation. I just wish there was a way to prevent that, but there isn't.

But all kidding aside, I can understand why some people, whose high expectations haven't been met, hang around with the hopes of improving things. I just question the intensity in which they go about it. Some appear to simply enjoy venting. Of course, we have a similar problem with some of the defensive, rabid fans.

There is obviously going to be intensity and sometimes hostility when it comes to difference of opinion on a freely expressive message board, that just goes with the territory - can't surpess human emotion I guess. I for one am here for exactly that, to keep updated on Firaxis and if they've implimented anything *new* and maintain the "venting" as you called it. I don't deny to be very upset with Civ3 and Firaxis at this point in time. I can't speak for everyone else, but as long as this board is free and allows open opinion I'm not going to stop expressing mine. But criticism will lead to 'improvement' .. rabid fanboy nature will only lead to 'argument'.

I really enjoy Civ 3 and, consequently, do not appreciate the remarks that insinuate that I'm naive or blinded just because I like the game. I'm confident that the so called "whiners" feel the same way when they're attacked. Whatever happened to the concept of personal opinion? You know, when there is no factual basis for liking or disliking something . . . you just do or don't? Is it really that important to PROVE our point and put the opposite camp in its place?

I agree with you on all counts. I believe that opinion is free and open to express, as long as you don't throw it in someone's face. And when expressing your opinion do so once as per individual, to express it over and over in a bantering method would only increase hostility - as I said I agree with you completely. And I disagree with people being referred to as "blind" or "naive" simply for stating opinion. But I do believe that someone would be called both of those things if they cut down a rivalist opinion, or deny the basis of someone's point of views. Simply the game is both good but also flawed. I've never disagreed with the game being good (although my debate opponents will argue) but I do agree with it being flawed - if that makes any sense to you.

By the way, I also agree that being up front with your customers, through the good and the bad, is really the best way to go. I understand the "silence" approach, I just don't think it works.

All game tedium and issues asside - alot of the "whiners" (substitute word for Critic on behalf of the fanboys) find that the problems of the game are nothing in anger, compared to the "being ignored" by the very company that produced the game with problems. So it's like Firaxis is pooring salt on the wound by ignoring everyone. Again I agree with your statement.

Charles.