Land/Sea Mines

[UltraSonix]

quote: Originally posted by beyowulf on 09-25-2000 03:05 PM Or even better, a Mine Unit. The Mine Unit has a movement of 0. It can be moved around by allied transports, though once activated it is harmful to both allied and enemy units. Units trying to move through the mine unit recieve damage, though they -are- able to move into the square occupied by the Mine, and past it. Mines unit never recieve damage, but their attack does decrease to reflect the fact that some mines already exploded. Also, late in the game, use of this unit might be considered an atrocity.

The mines are a good idea - and I have started a new thread on it to give it the recognition it deserves. (Actually, it may have been discussed in the past, but I can't remember, oh well...)

A mine model:
*Mines behave in the game as described above.
*However, mines would have 10HP and each turn have a 33% chance of losing a HP, so that it could be expected to last about 30 years.

*They can be laid down anywhere by an appropriate unit.
*Only special units would be able to see mines, and perhaps mines would be able to be removed by engineers.

*Mines would have have something like 6*-0-0 (ADM), but like a ship trapped in a port, attack is reduced to 1 when attacking armoured vehicles. Once an appropriate tech is discovered, all new mines layed after that would cause the full 6 attack on armoured units.
*Obviously mines wouldn't affect air units, and maybe sea mines don't affect submarines, just to give that unit a bit more of an advantage.

*Mines don't belong to anyone once laid, so no one knows who did it. But if you lay a mine in someone's territory within sight of one of their units/sensors, then it is an act of war.
*Later in the game, one of the acts that can be proposed to the UN (like in SMAC) is the removal of landmines. It would be quite expensive, it must be passed by half the civs, and anyone who agreed to it would pay and have landmines instantly removed from their own territory. If everyone agreed to do it, the landmines would also be removed from neutral areas that no one's borders cover. This would be a way to make the UN more useful, though it's not very realistic.

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No, in Australia we don't live with kangaroos and koalas in our backyards... Despite any stupid advertisments you may see to the contrary...
[This message has been edited by UltraSonix (edited September 25, 2000).]

[Adm.Naismith]

Minefield is a good idea. A similar concept has been implemented in SMACX, but I never bought it (demo keep crashing on my system, so I stayed with my SMAC).

About your proposal, my opinions are the following.

- mine lasting xx turn: agreed (exact number depending by game balance)

- mines laided down by appropriate unit: agreed, but engineers are good enough for me, but because a ship or submarine equivalent is needed for doing the same at sea, maybe a special added by Unit workshop will be goo enough. BTW German subs did a lot of mining operation during wwI & II.

- special unit able to see mines: for sake of simplicity, they should be the same able to laid mine

- mine effect reduced against tanks: keep it simple, let this out; mine already end effects after xx turn, new mines will be more powerful by default.

- mines affected submarines instead, still I agree not planes (in WW2 there used to be balloons over ships and cities, to have similar effects, but without great success AFAIK)

- Mines belong to someone, to be true. If you laied down a minefield you must have a map to help your troops to pass minefield without harm. Your minefield should stay visible on your map.

- removing of minefields should be more a part of peace treaty, IMHO. If someone accept to remove mines, the normal rate of mine "decay" will double (e.g. each turn have a 66% chance of losing a HP), not instant removal because mines are difficult to find and disarm.

- UN can properly vote to ban use of mines because considered atrocities, but nations can refuse to approve this (USA and China do it actually, AFAIK).

All things considered, yours a very good mine model, UltraSonix.

BTW UltraSonix, looking at your signature I must ask you now: where in the neck do australians keep kangaroos and koalas, then?

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Admiral Naismith AKA mcostant

[Deathwalker]

A good idea, but please it would not be harmful to allied troops as they would know were in the square they are.

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I have walked since the dawn of time and were ever I walk, death is sure to follow

[Marcel I]

Just some thoughts I got on reading your suggestions:
Mines do cause friendly casualties, so it wouldn’t be realistic to expect them to do no damage to your own troops. However the damage would be less then enemy troops moving through your minefield.
Moving through minefields should also cause a movement penalty. After all (anti tank) mines could damage the tracks of vehicles and in general urge the troops to move cautious (perhaps reducing speed of enemy troops or ships to 1/3 of their normal movement points).


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Adopt, Adapt and Improve

[UltraSonix]

quote: Mines do cause friendly casualties, so it wouldn’t be realistic to expect them to do no damage to your own troops.

Sir Shiva's solution is best - the only advantage that allied/friendly troops should have towards mines is simply that they know where the mines are, so that they can avoid them. So as a result, mine would not need to belong to anybody.

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Where do we keep our kangaroos? Look on a map of Australia - most of it is empty...

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No, in Australia we don't live with kangaroos and koalas in our backyards... Despite any stupid advertisments you may see to the contrary...

A workaround... Whenever you lay a mine, your maps say they are there... So you can keep away. It will stay on your mine-map even after it explodes till its destruction is verified by a sensor unit. Whenever you swap maps or military intelligence with allies, they see where your mines are and vice-versa...

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[rremus]

I think mines should be not units, but a terrain 'improvement'. It could be build by any military unit and could be visible on the map only for the player that built it.

[Az]

yep terrain imp.s are better. but it cannot damage friendly units... coz you have maps...