Stepping up to the plate....

[Velociryx]

I woke up this morning with great anticipation....looking forward to heading to 'poly to see what, if anything, had been written here, and on some of the other threads I'm following.

What I was expecting to see here is...exactly what I got. Voices of reason, stating all the reasons the idea probably will never get off the ground.

Thank you for that!

I *NEED* that!

Why?

Because I'm an artist. I create stories and board games out of nothing and there are no limits in my world.

More than anything, I need to be reminded that my limitless world sometimes (often?) clashes with the real one I'm bound to in life.

The other reason I need it is because the more I hear that it can't be done, the more determined it makes me. You want to inspire me? Tell me it's impossible. Tell me nobody in his right mind would even attempt to create something like this on a wing and a prayer.

I've always been the one to root for the underdog.....it's true, most of the time, the underdog can't hang, gets beat, folds, fades into obscurity....but sometimes....some rare and glorious times, the underdog whips one out on the big kahunas....and when that happens....WOW! Those are the stories that are remembered.

Example: Two groups from history. The Huns and the Scots.

Both fierce warrior-tribes.

The Huns were....kinna a one trick pony. They were tough and mean, but what made them the underdog was that, once the rest of Europe wised up to their games, they were pretty quickly ushered off the world stage.

The Scots....TALK about your underdog! England had a fantastic, well trained army MUCH larger than anything the poor Scots could hope to field. They had little training, no support from their own nobility, improvised weapons.....in a word, HOPELESS.

But they had a little something else going for them too. They're Warrior-Poets. They believed in something. They had heart.

Very tough to beat someone, or a group of someones who have heart....poetry flowing through their veins.

Not because it gives them any special powers, but because it makes them capable of meeting those impossible challenges head on anyway, even when logic and reason says there's no chance in hell.

And....they won! They did it.

That's cool.



Java, C++, Basic....I couldn't tell you the difference between them if you tied me to a rack and threatened to pull me apart with Clydesdales. Ultimately, if one is better than another for our purposes, I suppose we'll gravitate toward it.

Maybe it'll be the case that we never even get a playable demo out for people to check into.

Maybe it'll just sit here as a good idea that mightabeen.

The worst that can possibly happen though, is that it fails.

Governments won't fall, lives won't be lost (some more of my hair might, but that's okay!) The best that can possibly happen is that, despite all the odds against it, a really cool new game is born.

The odds are....the odds. They might eat us for breakfast....or maybe we'll eat them....either way, it'll be an adventure!

-=Vel=-

[Velociryx]

Updates:

Been proceeding with the development as though I was making a board game (good thinkin' by the way....I started doing that last night!)

Got my usual supplies. Posterboard from Wal-Mart, LOTS of sticky notes (multi-colored, of course!). Carpet Tape from Lowes. Construction Paper (multi-colored counters you know!). Good stuff!

Started hashing the rules out a bit more thoroughly, so if nothing else, what WILL come from this little exercise is a well fleshed out board game. Anybody who's interested in seeing THAT finished product, just lemme know! Even if we never get a sufficient body of code to turn it into a game, I KNOW board games, and this one will be a snap to put together and balance. Much simpler than Holy War, and it only took three months.

So....I'll be doing a more complete rules breakdown, and anybody who's interested in following it's progress, just keep checkin' here! And of course, keep the ideas and comments coming! That's one of my favorite parts!

-=Vel=-

[Steve Clark]

As with several others, I, too, have considerable experience in software management. Apart from my real job, in 1993, a partner and I started a game design/development company with the intent of producing a game. After two years of work, it didn't get very far at all. Most ventures of that nature don't. The concept of any design is a joy to think about, proving that concept and actually starting to make it concrete is pure time-consuming work. People here have complained about the programming in Civ3 (or many other games, if you will). The cutting nail to surgeon analogy is correct, but I take much further in that developing a game as complex as civ requires a team of highly-skilled surgeons, not just one.

Let me offer another analogy. I have talked constantly about scenarios. Some of my favorite PC games have been Civ2 scenarios and I am waiting for the Civ3 ones. But in the few years that I played Civ2 scenarios, I did not once design one. The reason is that the work required to design a historically-accurate scenario would have taken the fun out of wanting to play it. Besides, the fun in playing a new scenario is in its newness and discovery. If you know what is going on behind the scenes, then what fun will it be to play?

[Steve Clark]

One more thing. When I first read your post, I immediate thought about the handful of alternate civ projects out there. We don't need another one, imo, because it would not get any further than any of them. Taking it to the next level requires considerable effort and work and it has been proved that none of them can on their own. What typically happens in many software development projects is that you have a number of prototypes. From those learning experiences, than you can design and develop something for real. I view the work of the current alt civs as prototypes. Maybe now is the time to gather the collective experience and develop something for real? But unless you have a staff of experienced programmers/designers/artist that is willing to commit 2 years of time, by 2004, it will not be any further along than the current projects.

[The diplomat]

I think your game concept is very interesting. It might or it might not get off the ground but it is worth pursuing with all your strength.

You idea actually reminds me a bit of an old game I used to play called "Defender of the Crown". The game was about England during the Robin Hood period where the King dies and you as a prominent Noble must fight to unify the Kingdom under your rule. It divided England into provinces. Each province gave you money that you spent to build an army. You could spend the money on either an army or on building a castle. With the army you could attack and try to conquer other provinces. The game also had special events like a jousting tournament where the player could compete for gold, a province or prestige. The player could also raid an enemy city for gold or gain all the provinces of another lord through a political marriage.

It was a very cool game. What you have described sounds a bit similar but with some very interesting elements.

[Calorman]

Originally posted by The diplomat
I think your game concept is very interesting. It might or it might not get off the ground but it is worth pursuing with all your strength.

You idea actually reminds me a bit of an old game I used to play called "Defender of the Crown". The game was about England during the Robin Hood period where the King dies and you as a prominent Noble must fight to unify the Kingdom under your rule. It divided England into provinces. Each province gave you money that you spent to build an army. You could spend the money on either an army or on building a castle. With the army you could attack and try to conquer other provinces. The game also had special events like a jousting tournament where the player could compete for gold, a province or prestige. The player could also raid an enemy city for gold or gain all the provinces of another lord through a political marriage.

It was a very cool game. What you have described sounds a bit similar but with some very interesting elements.

That game was awesome. I can remember playing it on the Amiga years back. Lords of the Realm (which came later) was a little bit like it, but not as good. I loved the bits where you attacked the castle and had to swordfight with the commander, a bit like the captain duel in Pirates. Brilliant.

[LDiCesare]

Vel, one advise: Ask yourself one question: How much time will it take to get the project done? First answer from the top of your head and then look at other projects and see how much time it took to get where they are. If the figures are very different, you should try to go another route, whichever of the routes suggested above (joining another project, raising funds to hire programmers, joining a game company as a designer).
Whatever you chose, good luck!

[Harovan]

Originally posted by Velociryx
Java, C++, Basic....I couldn't tell you the difference between them if you tied me to a rack and threatened to pull me apart with Clydesdales. Ultimately, if one is better than another for our purposes, I suppose we'll gravitate toward it.

C++. Java and Basic are out of question. Although, sometimes seeing Civ3 to make 30min-AI-turns I suspect it's partially written in Basic (just a joke, not serious ).

And to create a game like Civ with a bunch of free time programmers is not impossible, but very very hard. Wish you luck. If you want to make it within a year and each could work 2-3 hours at evening, I think you roughly need about 100. I may be wrong by the factor 2 or 3, I'm merely a programmer and not a project manager, but I think that's realistic. Plus artists, plus componists, plus multimedia experts. Plus a lot of experience in managing big projects (I think that's the hardest part) and not letting them reach a dead end after a month or two.

Unless you care to find a lot of contributors and are able to lead them (or have a manager), your great ( ) ideas will end up as dreams. I would participate, but I really don't know how long I could keep up programming day (for money) and night (for Apolyton-FreeCiv or so).

EDIT: What have I learned? Never put 'poly smileys in parenthesises, they'll be messed up.

[Harovan]

Vel, by the way, where is Vel's strategy thread part four? 3rd is already out of the top page. Shouldn't you care more about your main mission?

[Daveraver]

I'm an artist... mostly concept... but I can photoshop and design. PM or email me if you want me to throw some stuff together, since I know **** about programming, that's all I can offer, but I'd love to help out.

[Velociryx]

LOL! You're right! Between that, the mod stuff, and this latest idea, I guess I gottalotta stuff going on! But I like that! Keeps life interesting!

As to the strat thread, I'm currently compiling all the latest goodies from part three, and should have it up soon! (this weekend at the latest)

I've also resurrected the "War College" here in Columbia, SC, and plan to have a working prototype whipped into shape for the weekend. Rules for the boardgame will be posted here in case anybody wants to try their hand at it as well (in my case, I'll prolly either raid my copies of Axis and Allies (have three), Fortress America (have one), or Shogun (just one of those as well) for pieces, and make a map out of posterboard segments on hinged plywood...lol...not state of the art, but it should be playable....get a feel for balance and stuffs....prolly too, I'll work up some basic events for the boardgame's "event engine" heh....again, all that will be posted here for the curious....and....we shall see....

-=Vel=-

[SlightlyMadman]

There's been some really good points addressed on this forum. Believe me, they all went through my mind when I was looking at Vel's ideas.

Here's why *I* volunteered to help out:

I've looked at most of the alternate civ projects out there. There's some really good ones, and some really bad ones, but none of them are what I'm looking for. There's game like freeciv. It works great, but it's basically civ2. It's nice to have that with an Open Source license, but it's nothing new. Civ Evolution really does look like a great game, but the development of it isn't really my style. I want something portable and flexible, with a more standard and portable language. Clash is almost what I'm looking for, but it's way too ambitious for my tastes. I want to start simple. Maybe if this project doesn't work out, though, I can take what I've learned to help them.

Yes, Vel's original design idea is way too ambitious, and impossible to code with a small team. That's why I'm making suggestions to simplify the process, and make something playable, a step at a time. It's true, I don't think he does understand the effort involved in doing certain things in a game, but I do. As long as someone does, it'll work itself out.

I fully intend to get to work writing a proof of concept app, without any help if I must. Maybe seeing something that works will convince other people te help out. Or, maybe it won't. Maybe it'll just be 3 or 4 of us, and we'll never get anything done. If so, no big deal. We've lost nothing but spare time, and we've learned a great deal. I live my life to learn and try out new things.

Bottom line: this will be fun, so why not? It beats spending hours shuffling 100 tanks around.

[Libertarian]

Perhaps this will make you respect the complexity and effort that goes into a game like Civilization. It is a lot easier to stand on the side-lines and criticize than it is to actually go out there and kick the ball around.

I hope that isn't a defense of Firaxis, because if it is, it's a lame one.

Yes, it is true that Civ3 is not a trivial effort. That, however, does not excuse Firaxis for its shortcomings, nor does it even account for them. In a chaotic situation, such as this effort by Vel, where there is positively nothing of substance underway aside from sheer speculation and exhanging of advice, programming a game like Civ is indeed daunting.

However.

When you have ample capital investment from a major game publisher, a full staff of programmers the likes of Soren, the backing and counsel of Sid Meier, an Internet network of players experienced with prior versions of your game giving input, and two or three years at your disposal — when all that infrastructure is in place, and you still release a beta without having even play tested its modern age, and then you zip your corporate lip after going gold...

I mean damn. Just plain damn.

[Willem]

Originally posted by SlightlyMadman

Did you ever play the old SSI AD&D games? It's just like that. You moved as one unit until combat, at which point you switch to a tactical map where you move all of your party against all of your enemies.

Yes, that would be a good model. I've played all of them many, many times and always enjoyed them, even though the interface was rather simplistic. Throw in a few obstacles and restrictions the units have to work around and you could end up with an interesting battle sequence, without it being overly complex. Pools Of Radiance certainly wasn't complex, but it allowed for some engaing tactical manoveurs, especially if there was a danger of friendly fire. For instance, if you didn't handle the Sleep spell properly, you could end up putting half of your party to sleep.

[Velociryx]

Hiya Madman! And I can tell you that we're no longer alone! One thing that would help me greatly in getting everybody together would be if you guys who have offered your time and services on various elements here could PM me with an e-mail addy you check semi-regularly, and I'll mail a note out to introduce everybody involved so far (and the total count, as of this moment, is 5, 2 people who know a thing or two about programming, 2 artists, and yours truly).

Madman, perhaps it'll help with the simplification too, if I post the "boardgame rules" as soon as I get them done.

I've taken out all references to the AI, streamlined a number of things for boardgaming purposes so I can test some of the concepts this weekend, and unless things get ferociously busy here this afternoon, I should have that sketched out by today....

-=Vel=-

[xRamsesx]

Vel,

I like the ideas for the game and would like to help (I've been following the AI thread). Like you put it, i know a thing or two about programming and have been thinking about joining one of the alternate civ groups. But I'd be much more interested in joining a game from the begining. My day-to-day job consists of making web applications for my company so I could also help with the game website if things go that far.

I'm not sure how much you want to know about the potential team members, so I'll leave it at that for now.

[tjwojo]

Originally posted by Libertarian
When you have ample capital investment from a major game publisher, a full staff of programmers the likes of Soren, the backing and counsel of Sid Meier, an Internet network of players experienced with prior versions of your game giving input, and two or three years at your disposal — when all that infrastructure is in place, and you still release a beta without having even play tested its modern age, and then you zip your corporate lip after going gold...

True, but when you also have an impossible standard to satisfy, as well as a fickle fan-base, you are sure to be disappointing in some areas. Add to this the need to make the game enjoyable for new-comers and various age groups, and the task seems daunting, if not impossible.

I have been playing Civilization from the start (I, II, III) and have always enjoyed them. Civ3 is no different. Those who whine about it, saying it sucks, are the ones who expected far too much from it in the first place.

Dissenters feel they can do better. Well do it then. Or shut up and play something else. There are still a lot of people who really enjoy Civ3. The game has its flaws, but overall it is a fun experience.

After all, it is just a game. Stop taking it so seriously.

[Random Passerby]

Sure, it's an impossible task, but that doesn't mean that they couldn't have done better. There are many aspects of design that cannot be quantified as "good" or "bad"--the presence of strategic resources, and maybe even the implementation, might well be written off as a matter of taste. But there are others which there's simply no excuse for--lack of stacked movement, for instance, cannot seriously be regarded as anything but a detriment to the game. That conquest would be tricky and require lots of infrastructure building to create useful new territories is a matter of game philosophy; that gaining useful territory through conquest is often essentially impossible is pretty much a flaw.

[Libertarian]

After all, it is just a game. Stop taking it so seriously.

And this is just a message board. Physician, heal thyself.

[Velociryx]

Oh! Just had to check back in here and say that the development of the board-game version is *really* shaping up! I think when you guys see it you'll be impressed!

-=Vel=-

[Willem]

Originally posted by Velociryx
Oh! Just had to check back in here and say that the development of the board-game version is *really* shaping up! I think when you guys see it you'll be impressed!

-=Vel=-

I hope this doesn't mean that you won't be beta-testing for Firaxis. They did more or less ask you to sign up, and it seems to me that you'd be very well suited to act as a spokesman for all us Civ fanatics who are hoping on having at least some of the problems of this incarnation resolved. You obviously have the respect of both Firaxis and the players, and you know what makes for a good strategy game. It would be a shame, as far as I'm concerned, if you didn't take them up on their offer.

[Chowlett]

Vel, I wish I could help, but I don't have the time. Degree comes first I'm afraid. Plus my programming skills probably aren't quite enough - I have a reasonable knowledge of C++, but nothing more suited to games design, and a fairly sketchy knowledge of C++ as well (although, considering I taught myself from a small magazine series on C, the book C++ for Dummys and the helpfile, I think I'm doing alright ).

However, I would love to get the rules for your boardgame, and if I get the time, I'd be perfectly willing to be a soundboard for ideas. I might even be able to suggest some of my own. If this works, with Vel at the head, it will be rocking. You are the strat games king. You have proved that with your publication of the SMAC guide. Not quite the same thing, admitedly, but it shows you have a feel for it.

[Velociryx]

Hey guys! It took a wee bit longer than I anticipated to balance a few things, and I'm not quite done, but I wanted to show you what I had put together so far! Also, not to worry Willem! If I'm picked for the beta team, I'll certainly have time for that! (or make time!)

And Chowlett! Thank you for the nod and the kind words, bud! Here's hoping you enjoy the rules as they stand so far!

You'll note too, that many of the cards for the "Book of Fate" (the board game's version of the "event engine" have been left not filled out! This was not due to a lack of ideas on my part, but because I wanted to leave the door open for anybody here to suggest stuff too! I've included enough variety that I think you'll be able to get a feel for what I'm looking for as far as TYPES of events, and you'll notice that they're more or less categorized (hearts deal with the hearts and minds of the people, diamonds are meant to be prosperity type cards (Money, mostly but other types of prosperity as well!), clubs are for mercenaries, mostly, and freebie units and stuff that can pop up unexpectedly, and spades are (with Mourngrym's exception), minor nasty things that can happen to the drawing player when he mucks around with fate! (i envision that most of the spades will be of the "instant" variety...buck up and take your meds kinna cards), but again, they don't have to be! I'll leave the cards in the state they're in and collect ideas from the forum all day tomorrow, and then edit changes into the list!

-=Vel=-

[Velociryx]

The Courts of Candle'Bre
A Velocigame! (Note: This is the basic system’s Board Game Rules - Understand that greater complexity may be allowed in a possible computer version of the game)

Background: Candle’Bre is a tiny kingdom, surrounded on all sides by vast stretches of mountains. Extremely isolated, and little contact with the outside world.

Recently, the kingdom was ripped asunder....blah blah blah....murder most foul....king is dead....whole FAMILY is dead....blah blah blahbeddy blah.....kingdom on the brink of war!

OoO

What you’ll need to play the game:
1) A map, containing 60 Provinces, representing the Kingdom of Candle’Bre. The Provinces can be of any size and configuration, so no worries there. When determining the valuation OF those provinces (how much gold they generate each turn), simply count the number of provinces that lie adjacent to the province you are valuing, multiply that number by ten, and there’s your answer! (More detailed method: To add variance, you may want to vary that by 1-3 base points (10-30 gold) and to do this, simply roll a d6 (1 or 2 = subtract 2 from this value (minimum of 1), 3 = subtract 1 from this value (minimum of 1), 4 = add 1 to the base value, 5 = add 2 to the base value, 3 = add 3 to the base value).

2) A deck of playing cards (jokers included) representing the book of fate

3) Dice (d6’s (research) and d20’s (combat)

4) Units (beg, borrow and steal from existing games you might have)

5) Money (to represent gold) (Raid the Monopoly set!)

6) Counters for honor and Influence (coins, poker chips…anything will do)

7) A research chart to track your progress up the tech trees (each player will need one of these - copier paper will work)

8) Three Income Tracking Charts (Honor, Influence, Income) and markers on each, for each player (Axis and allies charts and markers would be perfect)

Order of Play:
1) Purchasing Phase (units, buildings)
2) Combat Movement
3) Combat Resolution
4) Non-Combat Movement
5) New Unit Placement
6) Diplomacy - Prisoner Exchange/Ransom
7) Draw from the Book of Fate (if desired)
8) Income Determination/Collection (Gold/Honor/Influence)
9) End Turn


Concepts you need to be familiar with to play:
1) Gold - The primary unit of currency in the game. The most pervasive and all encompassing of the three in-game resources (gold, honor, influence). Gold is, quite simply, the engine that drives your Kingdom.

2) Honor/Infamy - Your standing with the Kingdom of Candle’Bre as a whole. Just as Influence with the Church can prevent military attacks, Honor can be used to prevent Espionage against you from succeeding. Also, accumulating Honor is a viable way to win the game. Get 200 points of accumulated Honor, and you win by default. Having a negative honor value results in Infamy. Infamy, while exciting in it's own right, hurts your efforts at specific segments in the game. Specifically, players with negative honor must pay 10% higher build costs for any Provincial improvements, and pay 10% higher research costs....it's the price of freedom from all constraints!

3) Influence - Your standing with the Church. Influence over the clergy in Candle’Bre is a powerful weapon of defense and peace. With it, you can summon powerful men of the cloth to your side, utterly preventing attacks against you and your allies.

4) Neutral Provinces - At game start, many of Candle'Bre's provinces have not decided who they want to cast their lot with. You may attack these neutrals and bring them into your fold. When you launch such an attack, the defenders are all considered to be infantry for purposes of combat, and they get 1 Infantry per 10g value of the province to defend with. Neutrals cannot take prisoners, so all hits they score on you are regarded as casualties (note that an unkind opponent could play a unit card on behalf of a Neutral territory, and you might suddenly find yourself facing a LOT more than you bargained for!)

Game setup/Start:
Turn 0: Each player selects five contiguous territories to serve as his/her base of operations, and one of the five “Houses” of Candle’Bre to play. Note that each house comes with its own strengths, weaknesses, and styles of play, so select one that suits you best.

Calculate each player’s Income to see where you stand. In a two player game, the player with the LESSER starting income gets one full turn’s worth of the larger player’s income to serve as a starting treasury to help balance the start. In a multi-player game (3-5, the two players with the lowest income totals get one turn’s worth of income equal to whatever value the “richest” player would receive.

Roll a d6 to determine who goes first, high roll wins.

Units: At game start, the following units are available: (A/D/M) (Attack Value/Movement) (combat is handled with d20 die rolls)
Infantry 8/8/1
Archers 7/1(f)
Cavalry 9/9/2 (c)
Mercenaries 6/6/1 *

Notes:

f- Denotes “First Strike” Ability. Archers fire during the first “phase” of a round of combat, and losses suffered from an archer volley are removed before combat continues (such that if your opponent elects to take infantry casualties via your archer volley, the infantry who die do not get an attack roll) - Note that units with “First Strike” ability do not have a defense value. They always attack/defend using their attack values.

c- Denotes “Charge/Flank” Ability. Units executing a Charge/Flank ability may only attack “every other” combat round and have their attack values doubled for the round that they DO attack.

* - All “normal” military units require the presence of a barracks to build troops. Not so with Mercenaries. While not quite as good as Infantry, they have the advantage of being able to be “purchased” and assigned in any Province. Note too, that Mercenaries do not gain the advantages of your investments in research. They DO, however, come with one special ability that is totally unique to them. At the beginning of any given combat round (before ANY dice are rolled), the player controlling the Mercenaries may pay a “combat bounty” (consult the table below). This combat bounty improve the fighting spirit of the Mercenary companies in your employ.

1 gold per Mercenary Company = All Mercs. Of the controlling player Get +1 on their Attack/Defense rolls this round

2 gold per Mercenary Company = All Mercs. Of the controlling player get +2 on their Attack/Defense rolls this round

Note that no more than 2g/Merc can be paid (the bonus does not extend beyond +2), and that it’s an all or nothing proposition (you either pay for all your Mercs, or none of them get the bonus). The Bounty can be re-issued each combat round.

Others become available via research.

Combat System:
Combat occurs in rounds, and in the following order:
1) Ranged units fire (attacker/defender)
2) Losses are taken
3) Cavalry Flanking maneuvers/charges are performed
4) Losses are taken
5) Ground troops attack
6) Losses are taken
7) Option to withdraw?
8) Repeat

Note that a charging/flanking cavalry unit may only attack “every other round.” (spending the off rounds re-grouping and gaining position).

Battle continues until one side is eliminated or withdraws.

Effect of Leaders on Combat: The Presence of a "Great Leader" on combat may vary from leader to leader (specifically in the case of leaders gained via the Book of Fate), but at a minimum, all leaders will have the following battlefield effects in common:
+1 to all attack/defense Die-rolls
Each leader may "direct the battle" to an extent. Thus, for each leader present AT a given battle, the controlling player gets 3 "counters." These counters may be "cashed in" to re-roll one die. Note that you may not cash in a counter to force an opponent to re-roll....only your own die rolling is affected.

Note too that multiple leaders on your side of the battlefield are NOT cumulative where the +1 attack/defense is concerned!

Combat:
Important Note: Regardless of any modifiers, a roll of 1 hits, and a roll of 20 always misses!

Before the dice start flying, you must specifiy HOW your forces are going to attack, and you have two choices. You may either issue a "standard attack" or a "precision strike."

In a standard attack, the dice rolling is carried out normally, per the numbers associated with each unit type. The attacker goes first, makes his rolls, and the defender chooses which units to lose as casualties (per axis and allies). Also note that if one of your attacking units rolls *eactly* the number required for a hit, the enemy unit is considered captured, not killed (which can lead to prisoner exchanges and ransoms). This applies to all unit types (for simplicity's sake!).

In a precision strike, you roll the dice normally, but half the resulting number of hits (rounding down in the case of an odd number of hits!). There are no captures in a precision strike and the rolling player may specifiy which "segment" the losses taken must come from. (IE - "My fifteen Archers are executing a Precision Strike against your cavalry massing for a charge" Dice are rolled, losses are calculated, and cav is removed). The determination may be made independently for each segment of the army (Archers, Infantry, Cav) but must be made before any dice are rolled.

Leader Captures: Because leaders are not represented by a unit on the map per se, they may not be targeted by precision strikes, nor may they be killed in rolled combat, however: if a unit containing a leader is completely destroyed or captured, the leader is considered captured by the victorious player and may be killed or held hostage, or held and killed later!

Withdrawing from combat:
There is a penalty for withdrawing from combat! For every unit that withdraws, roll one die (d20). On a roll of 1-3, the unit is captured. Units not captured may withdraw normally to any adjacent friendly territory. Withdrawing from combat also carries with it a -2 Honor penalty (cowardly retreat).

A note about troop placement:
Any newly created troops MUST BE PLACED in provinces containing barracks! Note, however, that the maximum number of troops placed in a given territory on any given turn may not exceed the province value/10 (ie - a province valued at 40g per turn--base value--may field no more than 4 units on any given turn! Mercenaries are the exception to this rule. They may be hired in any province, and you may double the usual "per turn" limits (ie - in the above example, you could build four units of cav, place them in the 40g territory containing a barracks, and also hire 8 mercenaries, and place them there).

Research:
Over the course of the game, you may opt to spend gold researching new technologies. These advances fall into three broad categories (Military, Infrastructure, and Espionage), and it’s up to you if/when to spend money on either. Not that on the turn you GET a new advance that allows a new unit or capability, you may not begin using/building those new units until the start of your NEXT turn.

There are two ways to handle research in the game. One is to simply assign a baseline value to each research advance. If you opt for that route, then use the following costs:
Tech Level Cost
1 30
2 50
3 80
4 120
5 170
6 230
7 300
8 380
9 470
10 570

If you want a bit more of a random element in your game, use the following variant system: Each turn you may opt for one or more “rolls” toward developing a new advance. “Rolls” must be paid for in gold, and the number must be announced before they are paid for. Each roll costs you 3 gold, and gives you a d6 die-roll toward “accumulated research” Keep a running total, and when you have enough accumulated research for the advance in question, it’s yours!

These tech costs are constants for all three areas of research.

Each research area contains ten “levels” of research. Once you reach level ten in a given category, allocating money to further research in that category will yield you no additional benefit (ie - don’t do it!)

The Tech Advances: We’ll use shorthand to refer to the techs (M1, M2, M3, I1, I2, I3, E1, E2, E3), with details about what each tech advance brings with it spelled out to the side.

Military Techs:
M1 - Light Infantry become available

M2 - All Infantry-Classed Troops Gain +1 to their Attack/Defense values

M3 - Pikemen become available

M4 - Archers gain +1 on their Attack Values

M5 - Siege Engines become available

M6 - Cavalry gain + 1 on their Attack/Defense Values

M7 - Light Infantry gain the “Initiative” special ability

M8 - Archers gain + 1 on their Attack Values

M9 - Infantry gain +1 on their Attack/Defense Values

M10 - Infantry gain the “Initiative” special ability

· The “Initiative” special ability is a limited-form version of the Archer’s “First Strike” ability. During the opening round of the combat, units with “Initiative” execute their attacks during the Archer’s fire phase of the combat round. If there are units with “Initiative” on the defender’s side, they defend with their more favorable combat value (attack/defense) during the first round of combat only.

Unit-Types (all Inclusive)
Infantry 8/8/1 (10 gold)
Archers 7/1 (f) (15 gold)
Cavalry 9/9/2(c) (25 gold)
Light Infantry 6/6/2 (12 gold)
Pikemen 5/10/1 (sw) (10 gold) (counts as an infantry unit for purposes of tech advances)
Siege Engines 0/0/1(neg) (20 gold)
Mercenaries 6/6/1* (12 gold)

Sw - Shield-Wall ability: Cavalry charges MAY NOT be executed against a force that contains any Pikemen, however, all losses suffered from “First Strike” units must come from the ranks of Pikemen first.

Neg - Negation Ability: For every Siege Engine the attacker brings into the battle, one "level" of protection (defensive bonus) of enemy fortifications is negated (1 siege engine would negate the defensive bonus of a watch tower, 2 would negate the defensive bonus of a Fortress, etc)

Infrastructure Techs: (Note that at game start, all players begin with the ability to build Temples, and Barracks) (houses/hotels from Monopoly, with nail-polished roofs in varying colors make excellent buildings to represent all this stuff, with pennies or other markers placed beneath them to represent upgrades).

I1 - Thieves’ Guild May be built/ Scribe’s Tower may be built

I2 - Watch Towers and Markets may be built

I3 - Library upgrade for Scribe’s Towers

I4 - Fortress upgrade for Watch Towers

I5 - Cathedral Upgrade for Temples

I6 - Keep Upgrade for Fortresses

I7 -Bank/ Castle Upgrade for Keeps

I8 - Academy Upgrade for Libraries

I9 - Trading Company Upgrade for Markets

I10 - University Upgrade for Academy

Buildings List and their effects:
Temple: (cost 110g) Generates 1 Influence Per Turn

Barracks: (cost 70g) Troop training center. Note that the maximum number of troops each barracks can produce per turn is 1/10 the value of the province (ie - a province that generates 30g per turn can produce 3 units per turn from Barracks)

Thieves’ Guild: (80g) Spies/Assassins Den - Espionage conducted from here!

Scribe’s Tower: (140g) Produces 3 points of research each turn, in every category

Watch Tower: (50g) Increases the defense value of every unit present by +1

Market: (100g) Increases your per turn income by 2

Library: (upgrade cost = 70g) Increases your research in all categories by +2 per turn (so, a total of 5/turn, post upgrade)

Fortress: (upgrade cost = 50g) Increases the defense value of every unit present by +2

Cathedral: (upgrade cost = 80g) Increases per turn influence by +1 (a total of 2/turn post upgrade)

Keep: (upgrade cost = 80g) Increases defense value of all units in the province by +3 and provides all Infantry Based units with one round of the “Initiative” ability.

Bank: (Cost 120g) Increases per turn income by 5 (banks are required in provinces where
Markets are to be upgraded to Trading Companies)

Castle: (upgrade cost = 100g), per Keep, but the Initiative applies to ALL units and lasts two combat rounds

Academy: (upgrade cost = 70g) +5 research, all categories (a total of +10 research to all categories per turn, post upgrade)

Trading Company: (upgrade cost = 100g) Increases your per turn income to +3 (cumulative with Market) +5 total (post upgrade)

University: (upgrade cost = 50g) +5 research (a total of +15 research per category, post upgrade)

(Note that without play-testing-haven’t done that yet-the costs may not be perfectly balanced)

Note too, the following restrictions on building improvements in provinces:

1) Each province may have no more than three (3) improvements built in it, and that Fortifications count as an improvement.

2) Thieves' Guilds and Scribe's Towers (or any of their upgrades) MAY NOT be built in a province with a Temple/Cathedral

3) The presence of a Bank is required in the province where you wish to upgrade a Market to a Trading Company

Espionage Techs: (you may begin researching these techniques without having the ability to build Thieves’ Guilds, though you will be able to do nothing with them until you build at least one TG)

E1 - Steal Gold (SG) Ability Gained! (base chance = 60%)//Intelligence Ability Gained (Int)

E2 - SG = 70% base

E3 - Steal Research/Corrupt Research (SR) Ability Gained (base chance = 50%)

E4 - SG=75% base, SR=60% base

E5 - Bribe Ability Gained! (BR) (base chance = 50%)

E6 - SG=80% base, SR=65% base, BR=60% base

E7 - Assassinate (A) Ability gained! (base chance = 40%)

E8 - SG = 85% base, SR 75% base, BR = 70% base, A=50% base

E9 - SG=90% base, SR 80% base, BR 75% base, A=55% base

E10 - SG 95% base, SR 85% base, BR 80% base, A=60% base

(to be continued!)

[Velociryx]

Espionage Abilities Explained:
All espionage abilities, except where noted below, are FREE. They cost you nothing, save for the expense of research to get them, and the construction of Thieves’ Guilds. If you are caught, there also may be a “cost” of Honor.

To determine how many “Espionage Operations” you can perform during the course of a turn, simply count up the number of Guilds you have, and divide by two. There’s your answer!

Intelligence: This is among the most basic of the Espionage options, and is something of a special case. Unlike the other Espionage options, you have a flat 50% chance of succeeding, and there is no defense against such snooping. Success means you may take a peek at any one card from the "Book of Fate" your opponent is currently holding. Also note that you get two "Intelligence" peeks for the price of one action (so that, for the price of one of your "espionage slots" on a given turn, you have two opportunities to do a bit of snooping). If successful, your opponent may shuffle/mix his fate cards face down, and then you select one and flip it over to examine.

Steal Gold: If successful, you gain a portion of your rival’s treasury. For every level of espionage tech you have researched, you may roll d6. For every Guild you have in operation, add +1 to the end result. Enjoy! (Steal Gold’s chances of success are modified by -5% for each Guild your rival has in his territory). Failure results in the loss of 5 honor.

Steal/Corrupt Research: Two options here. The first removes research points from your rival’s pool and places them in your own. The second (easier to pull off +15% to base chance of success) simply mucks up your rival’s research efforts. Amount of damage done to research is d6 per Guild you have in your territory, modified by -1 to the total per Guild your opponent has (though your chances are unaffected by your rival’s guilds). Failure in your attempt results in the loss of 10 points of accumulated honor.

Bribe: Battle Ability. Before the start of any combat round, you may attempt to Bribe military units. Successful bribing means the enemy units move to your side. For all purposes, they are now your units. Unsuccessful bribe attempts still have an impact though, in that unsuccessfully bribed units may not participate in the combat in question (for either side!). If the result of the battle is such that the unit unsuccessfully bribed ends his turn in enemy controlled territory, move the unit to the nearest friendly territory. Unsuccessfully bribed units can be brought back into the combat by paying 2 Honor per affected units. Successfully Bribed units may be purchased back by the original owner (countering the bribe) by paying 4 Honor per unit bribed.

Assassinate: Can be used on Leaders or individual units. A successful % role results in the outright death and immediate removal from the game board of that unit. Failure results in a loss of 15 Honor.

Sow Seeds of Rebellion: You'll note that this particular espionage ability does not appear on the tech chart. That is because it is available to anyone who can build Thieves' Guilds. Like the other Espionage options however, using this one DOES take up one of your "per turn" slots. Unlike the other options, this one costs gold.

To determine your chances of success at sowing the seeds of rebellion in an enemy controlled province, use the following formula: ((Espionage Tech Level * 10) + (Number of your Thieves' Guilds * 5)) - ((Target Opponents' Espionage Tech Level * 5) + (Number of Opponent's Thieves' Guilds ))( + 10 if the Province is adjacent to your territory, -5 if it is not.)(-10 for every unit the province contains)(-5 for each level of fortification the unit contains) The resulting number is the base percent chance of success. You may increase this chance by 10% per Xgold, where X is the value of the Province you're targeting. Your opponent may lower the chance by 10% by paying X, where X is half the value of the baseline value of the territory in question. In this case, the "defender" may pay in any combination of gold, influence, or honor, in order to preserve the province. This "bidding war" takes place and comes to its conclusion before any dice are rolled.

Effects of successful rebellion:
The Province immediately becomes the property of the "attacking" player. Any troops in the province are moved to the nearest friendly province. All provincial improvements are preserved, and their control passes to the new owner. Finally, any time such unrest occurs in the Kingdom, the Church always takes a more active hand in the region, and so a ban on any and all troop movement through the target territory is in place for three turns, starting with the turn that the rebellion succeeds in. Fostering rebellions then, can be a ruinously expensive enterprise, but when timed correctly, it can create a strategic block that may mean the difference between victory and defeat.


Player Notes - The Factions:
There are five Royal Houses of Candle’Bre, each having different traits and abilities that affect game play. Specific notes on them are as follows:

The Furies (default human player) - Led by Lord Michael Fury, this family has a long, proud history of serving as the King’s right hand. The Furies are good, noble folk, and boast the finest, best Cavalry in the realm (cavalry attacks at +2 and defends at +1) (Two special Leaders: Sir Kenna Fury - Cav. Commander, and Lord Stephen Fury - The Grand Marshal of the King’s Guard)

The Mourngrym Family - Led by Lord Flavin Mourngrym, this family is far and away the wealthiest in the Kingdom (perhaps even wealthier than the King himself, tho this has never been proved). It is whispered in dark corners that Mourngrym sold his soul to the Devil in exchange for his fabulous wealth. Whispered, because people who speak too loudly of such things often vanish without a trace. (special powers - Mercenaries can be hired at half the normal rate, chances for espionage success are 20% more likely to succeed (all base chances increased by 20%) - money to grease the wheels).

The Castillar Family - Led by Lady Ahnwick Castillar, this family’s power base is centered around religion. For sixteen generations, the men and women of the family have found their calling in the service of the Church, and as such, they hold tremendous sway over the commoners of the realm. (special powers - This family generate influence according to how many provinces they control 1 Influence per turn, per 3 Provinces controlled, +2 Influence per turn for as long as the Lady Ahnwick lives. Also, Castillar provinces are less likely (10%) to revolt than other provinces, and the Province that the Lady Ahnwick is in CANNOT be made to revolt. Special Leader: Lady Ahnwick Castillar (General/Clergywoman).

The Council of Seven: The Kingdom’s “Lower House” was long ago given stewardship over a large tract of Candle’ Bre to serve as the basis of their power. Special Power = The wise men of the council are well respected by all in the Kingdom, and attempts to make war on them would generally be frowned upon by all - warring on the Council of Seven results in a per turn loss of honor (1 point of honor lost per 100 men used to attack them, calculated EVERY TURN such attacks continue), and a 15% chance (check EACH province of the attacker, each turn - note that Provinces containing at least three friendly troop units will not rebel and need not be checked) of open rebellion in the attackers’ territories for the duration of the war. (note that rebellion is qualitatively different from sowing the seeds of rebellion, the Espionage ability....in this case, the province casts off the rule of the owning player and all improvements IN that province are destroyed). Perhaps most potent of the abilities of "The Seven" is their ability to sway the hearts and minds of captured troops. Any troops captured may be pressed into the service of the Seven during the unit placement phase of their turn and used normally on the following turn. Units placed thusly need not be placed in territories containing barracks, but they still must abide by the "per turn production limits" of provinces. Additionally, the Councilmen have a special unit: Praetorians (Elite, bada$$ defensive unit - Cost 10, 2/14/1

The Council of Five: The Kingdom’s governing “Upper House” is made up of five mysterious, reclusive wizards, who were also given stewardship over a large tract of land during the King’s reign. Little is known of their powers, but they are greatly feared nonetheless

Special power: Choose one at game start: Pestilence, Probability, or Divination) The Council of Five gain Mana for their spells at the rate of 1 point per province controlled, per turn.

Pestilence: Requires 20 spell points to cast, 4 per turn to maintain. Any military units moving through the target province must roll a survival check (d20, a roll of 1-5 means the unit simply dies where he stands. Chances for a leader death are 1-2 on a d20. Every turn the pestilence remains, the territory has a 1% (cumulative) chance of rebelling against its controller and reverting to neutrality (all improvements considered lost) (note that the rebellion roll can be negated by keeping a standing force of at least three (3) units in the province, but this could get QUITE expensive, over time.

Probability: Requires 5 spell points to cast. The wizards may use their magic to impact one die roll in any battle of his choosing (either make the opponent re-roll, or re-roll one of his own dice). No roll may be re-done more than twice, and the casting cost is paid for each re-roll the player desires.

Divination: Requires 10 spell points to cast. The wizards may “spy on” any other house, and gain perfect information on their enemies. (treasury count, total stored honor or influence, cards currently held, etc). Note that the casting cost is paid for each item the player wishes to see (treasury = 1 item, stored honor = 1 item, 1 fate card = 1 item, etc).


Honor is gained by:
1) Combat - Successly defending your holdings against all comers gives you honor (1 pt. per battle). Attacking does NOT give you honor (since controlling 40 Provinces is, in and of itself, a means to victory!)

2) Mercy (captured leaders are ransomed, not killed) (5 points for leaders spared)

3) Captured troops are released, not slaughtered (1 point per unit returned to its owner)

4) Allies are aided with gifts of money/Units (1 point per 50 gold value in units, money, or any combination thereof)

Honor is lost by:
1) Getting caught using Espionage techniques (penalty depends on the severity)

2) Slaughtering captured troops/leaders (-5 per leader killed)

3) Attacking the Council of Seven (see council of seven for rules regarding that)

4) "Spending" Honor to defend yourself from various actions taken by enemies

Thus, it should be theoretically possible to ally yourself with the Council of Seven (or anyone, really) and win by gifting them units and cash (the family that can hire cheap mercs could hire an army and gift it to their allies, for example, letting the allies do the heavy lifting, while they accumulate honor by being good and worthy allies).

*****
Economic Model:

Gold is the driving force behind the economy. From your supply of gold, do all other things spring. Your per turn Income is used for a variety of things:

1) Paying upkeep costs of your standing forces

2) Building Improvements in your Provinces

3) Hiring Mercenaries

4) Hiring Special Units (ignore for purposes of the board game!)

5) Training New Troops

6) Research

Each of these will be covered in turn.

1) Paying Upkeep for your standing forces: Each company of soldiers in your service requires 1g in upkeep each turn. If this fee is not paid, the unit is not lost, but simply deactivated. It may not move. It will not initiate an attack, but it WILL defend (half strength).

2) Improvements: A Province may contain no more than three (3) improvements, forcing the player to make strategic choices about what to build where. Building Barracks near the front line of a looming battle will have the effect of allowing you to churn out troops close to the action, but you run the risk of losing the territory AND your ability to defend those behind it. Available builds depend on your level of research.

3) Hiring Mercenaries. Normal combat units (ones you train yourself) have static combat values, mercenaries do not. Their combat values are floating, depending on the level of salary you provide them (the higher you set your per turn upkeep, the better they fight). Note though, that even the best paid mercenary force is no match for an elite “standing” fighting force. 1:1, the Mercenaries will lose every time. Their main strengths are a) They do not require a Barracks to train, and b) They can be hired en mass to achieve a specific objective (adjusting their salaries to whatever level of effectiveness is required). Note too, that attrition rates are higher for Mercenary units (double)

4) There are, at present, only four types of special units available (but more may be considered later: a) Sages (increase your research rate - Each Sage has a speciality - see below) b) Justicars (decrease the chance of rebellion in the province they are assigned to) c) Spy (used to conduct espionage missions) d) Taxman (used to increase the baseline revenue value of the province they are assigned to)

5) Training New Troops - This is, when the dust settles, a war game, so training troops will be where the bulk of your money ultimately goes. All the Provincial Improvements are simply a means to an end…allowing you to field a large enough army to claim the Kingdom of Candle’ Bre as your own.

6) Research - Is broken into four categories: Military Research, Infrastructural Research, Espionage Research, and Lifestyle Research. Military Research gives you better weapons (expressed as attack bonuses, and sometimes new combat abilities…also the occasional new unit). Infrastructural Research gives you additional buildings for provincial improvement. Espionage Research opens up more “sneaky stuff” to do to your opponents. Lifestyle Research increases the quality of life for those living in Provinces you control. This leads to happier people who are more able to resist attempts made by others to sow the seeds of rebellion. It also (over time) increases the per turn gold values of your Provinces.


Influence:
The primary use of your Influence with the Church is defensive in its nature. Simply put, your pull with the local clergy enables you to stop a battle in its tracks. To do so, you simply spend influence from your pool of it. 20 points keeps a target battle from happening entirely (you must declare your intent to do this before any dice are rolled!). Influence used to stop a battle from happening vs. your own troops is considered cowardice (hiding behind the coattails of the Church), and so results in a loss of -2 Honor. Using it for the benefit of one of your allies, however, is an Honorable act, and will net you +5 Honor. Bear in mind, however, that influence builds up quite slowly, and must be carefully husbanded, and used only in the most dire of emergencies.

(once more, to be continued!)

[Velociryx]

And finally....

The Book of Fate:
This mighty tome represents a certain "random element" in the game. A mysterious spirit who casts fortune and misfortune upon those who dare to make use of it.....it can instantly turn a brightly burning victory into a dashing, humiliating defeat, and it can turn certain death into a new lease on life.

Every turn, each player may opt to pay 10x (in any combination of Gold, Influence, or Honor) to draw one (and only one!) card from the Book of Fate. The draw is not required, and may not even be desired.

Some of the cards drawn have an immediate impact, while others may be held onto indefinitely (face down on the table before you). Note that no player my EVER have more than seven (7) Fate Cards face down before him at any time. If you already have seven, you may not draw any additional cards until you make use of at least one of the cards you have!

Some cards may only be played once per game, and are kept separate from the discard pile until the current game ends. Other cards may be recycled when you go through the deck completely, and may come up again.

And finally, some cards may directly violate the game rules listed here! If so, the card in question assumes "local superiority" and the ruling on the card applies for the effect described on the card.

If using playing cards, you'll note that only one suit (spades) is bad, meaning that each time you draw, you've got a 25% chance of having paid for something bad to happen to you....that's the risk of using the deck, and why it is entirely optional!

* Final note! If you play any card on behalf of a neutral province, you gain no honor....as it is, you're probably wrecking havoc with your opponent's plan, and that should be reward enough!

And now, the cards themselves:

Hearts:
2- Respect of your Peers! You gain 10 Honor (must be played immediately)

3- Adoration of your Peers! You gain 20 Honor! (must be played immediately)

4- Respect of the Clergy You gain 10 Influence! (may be played immediately or kept - Player's discretion)

5- Favorite of the Clergy! You gain 20 Influence! (may be played immediately or kept - Player's discretion)

6- Grasp of the Inquisitor: roll d6. The result is the number of enemy Theives' Guilds you destroy. If the enemy does not have that many Guilds, then you may begin destroying Scribe's Towers, Libraries, Academies, and Universities (in that order). Your opponent may prevent this by paying the full cost of the improvement about to be distroyed in any combination of influence, honor, or gold. If he cannot, there is no preventing the destruction. This card may be held until needed.

7- Miraculous Escape! This card may be "cashed in" for five counters. Counters may be used to nullify the death or capture of any units. Counters need not all be used in one battle, and leftover counters may be held onto to prevent other deaths as the owning player sees fit (using a counter to benefit an ally = +1 honor per counter, +2 if used to help an ally's leader). Card may be held until needed.

8- Religious Festival! No attacks may be made AT ALL until the start of your next turn. Card must be played at the start of your turn, and may be held until needed.

9- Nothing but love for ya! No attacks may be made AT ALL until the start of your next turn. Card may be played at any point during your turn, and may be held until needed.

10- Adoration of the Peasantry! Roll d6 and have target opponent choose that number of territories you control. Double income values for those provinces this turn. (must be played before income calculation and collection of the receiving player's turn, may be held until needed) - if used for an ally, you gain one honor per 10 gold that player recieves (dropping all fractions).

Knave- Leader! Lord Charles Vega. Brings with him 5 units of Light Infantry. Any Light infantry units in the province with Lord Vega gain first strike ability (attack on the same tier with Archers). This card is "burned" when played (not returned to the discard pile for reshuffling). May be held until needed, units may be placed in any territory without regard to territory production limits, and may be played at any point in the turn, including combat, prior to dice being rolled!) - if this card is gifted to an ally, you gain 10 honor

Queen- Partisan support! Chose target battle in a territory of your enemy. Roll d6+2. That number of Infantry spring up in the province to do battle with/help do battle with enemy forces there. No damage to improvements is done, but if the province is lost and no other player troops are present, then the province reverts to neutrality, and the surviving infantry remain until dealt with. If played on behalf of an ally, gain +3 honor.

King- Papal Decree! Choose target opponent and roll d6. For that number of turns, the target player may not make use of any espionage functions. This card may be held until needed.

Ace-Unnatural disaster! Choose target enemy territory. That territory is the subject of an "unnatural disaster" and any improvements it contains must roll a survival check (d20, 1-8, improvement distroyed, 9-20 improvement remains). All units in the province must also roll a survival check (d6, 1-2 unit dies, 3-6 unit survives) - Leaders are exempt. This card may be held until needed, and units/improvements so distroyed may be spared if the owning player pays 20 per building and 4 per unit. Cost may be paid in any combination of Honor, Influence, or Gold.

Diamonds:
2- Hidden Treasure! This card may be played immediately, or kept until the start of any of your turns. May be cashed in for 50g

3- Excellent harvest! This card may be played immediately, or kept until the start of any of your turns. May be cashed in for 50g

4- Innovative Peasants! Choose target territory and build any one (1) improvement or upgrade there instantly. Note that you need not have the requisite tech for the improvement, but it may not violate the "3-per rule", nor the church rules.

5- Squatters' Rights! Target neutral territory comes into your fold peacefully. This card may be held until needed. If played to the advantage of an ally, you gain honor equal to 1/10th the value of the province your ally gains (40g province = 4 honor). May be played at any time before the target player's income calculation phase.

6-

7-

8-

9-

10-

Knave-

Queen-

King-

Ace-

Clubs:
2-

3-

4-

5-

6-

7-

8-

9-

10-

Knave- Mercy of the Seven: This card may be held until needed. If you are not the Council of Seven player and you play this card for yourself, you immediately gain 30 honor and the great respect of all in the kingdom for escorting one of the councilmen safely thru enemy territory. If you gift the card to the "seven" player, or play it on his behalf, then any combats the "seven" player participates in this turn result in no enemy deaths....all captures.

Queen- Season of the Witch: This card may be held until needed. Choose target player. You may destroy units of that player by paying 3 Honor or 3 Influence per. The player so assaulted may spare the units by paying 5, in any combination of Honor, Influence, or Gold. Card lasts for one turn only and then burns out and is added to the discard pile. Leaders may not be destroyed in this manner. If this card is played by the Castillar family, and if Lady Ahnwick still lives, then the Castillar players costs are reduced to 1 per, instead of three.

King- Vengeance of the King. This card may be held until needed. When played, it summons 8 units of cavalry into existance, in any province you name, under the control of any player you name. If the card is used and units gifted to an ally, you gain 20 honor. If used by, or gifted to the Fury player, all of his attacking cavalry may make charge attacks every combat round this turn.

Ace- This card must be played immediately or gifted to the Council of Five player. If you play the card and are NOT the council of Five player, you gain 30 honor for destroying a mysterious heretical tome. If you gift the card to the Council of Five player, or play it on his behalf, the Council player gains 50 spell points immediately.

Spades:
2-

3-

4-

5-

6-

7-

8-

9-

10-

Knave- Mourngrym's gambit - If you are not the Mourngrym player, this card does nothing. You may, however, hold onto it indefinitely and keep it as a ruse (or keep it out of Mourngrym's hands!). If you gift the card to Mourngrym, or play it on his behalf, the following will result: ANY mercenary forces used to attack the Mourngrym player this turn will turn against the controlling player and defect to Mourngrym's side. All mercenaries in combat with Mourngrym this turn will gain an additional +1 attack/defense over and above other bonuses.

Queen-

King-

Ace- Soloman's Dilemma: Play Immediately! Reveal this card to target opponent. Opponent rolls 2d6, and sums the result. You select that number of units and divide them into two piles. Your opponent selects one of the piles and gains control of them. You keep the remainder and may redistribute in your holdings how you wish.

(as always, thoughts and comments welcomed!)
-=Vel=-

[Skanky Burns]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
C++. Java and Basic are out of question. Although, sometimes seeing Civ3 to make 30min-AI-turns I suspect it's partially written in Basic (just a joke, not serious ).

While its true that Java isnt the highest-performance language around, I dont think the game we are writing will be that demanding of processor time. Theres no 3d graphics, massive number-crunching, etc, so I think Java will suffice.

Of course, if the concept proving app shows any obvious shortcomings regarding performance, it should be easy at this point to change to another language. Nothing is set in stone yet.

Id like to announce that Im the 2nd programmer on the team (so far). My basic reason for joining is experience. I need it, this project can provide it. I would also like to be there at the start of a project, not joining late and having a minimal impact.

Plus, it should be fun

[Harovan]

Originally posted by Skanky Burns
While its true that Java isnt the highest-performance language around, I dont think the game we are writing will be that demanding of processor time. Theres no 3d graphics, massive number-crunching, etc, so I think Java will suffice.

I suggest you to give it a try and write a simple chess program in Java. That's some kind of Civ, with a tiny map of 64 tiles, all terrain the same, and 6 different units. And I mean a chess program, not just a move generator with random choice.

If you succeeded and your games last less than a month, think about a chess game at 64000 tiles, with 10-20 terrain types and 60 different units. Plus difficult game rules, diplomatic differences (can pass a tile or not), trade and resource routes, and an AI that's not just kicking around but has some kind of a long term strategy.

Forget Java.

Edit: Hope you don't see this as offense, it's not meant to be one. 5 minutes after getting up I tend to be not in the best mood . And I agree with you about the fun factor

[Captain]

Hi Vel,

Just wanted to encourage you to keep up with what you're doing. You said the best way to do that is tell you it's impossible. Well, you've gotten enough advice from others telling you how hard it is to program and all the other huge hurdles to overcome.
And they're right. Those are definitely things you'll have to consider.

But I'll ask why should those things deter you?

And this goes out to ALL the would-be an actual game designers!

If you enjoy what you're doing and you're learning more about what gaming is about, then I think you're doing something extremely valuable - even if in the end, the project never gets completed or never makes it to market.

I've made three boardgames, a card game, several large-group dynamics games, team-building games, a few sports games, several educational games, a few dinky computer games, hordes of passengers-in-the-car-on-really-long-road-trips games, and countless game modifications.

I haven't marketed a single one. I never tried. Never bothered. I like making games. That's the fun. For me, it's more fun than actually playing them!

I have no administrative skills. I would have no ability to actually get a finished game onto store shelves. I do best in creativity though I have a heavy science/engineering background that comes into play too. And this isn't the most important thing in the world. I don't really care if no one plays it. I have a lot of other things that I do as well that I hope are more meaningful. And a lot of other obligations to fulfill. If I have to drop my projects for a while I will. But designing games is an expression of my identity. It's the way I think and I need something to tap that mental energy.

A number of people have actually played my games, and I'm glad they enjoyed it. Many have suggested I market them because they would definitely buy them. But that's a hassle I'm not ready to push for now. I learned alot from feedback about learning curves, available time, loopholes, balance, engagement, turn spacing, physical location, mental imaging, and so on...all these come into play and I'm steadily learning more about what makes a good game.

But just because I don't have the answers, or because I'm skeptical about the future marketability of my game, doesn't mean I don't do it anyways! The fun is in the journey, not just the destination.

So I'd really encourage you to really go for it, but bear in mind that if it doesn't come out the way you wanted, don't be disappointed. It took me a full year to get my first board game to a playable and fun level. So just learn from your experience and keep trying!

Cheers!

[Libertarian]

With respect to performance issues of BASIC...

It is important to realize that all languages run at the same speed. They all have to be converted to machine language instructions, which the CPU executes in accordance with its clock cycle. The CPU don't know diddly about whether those instructions were extrapolated from Java or C++ or Fortran. Performance issues have never centered around the speed of languages, per se, but rather around the efficiency by which languages can organize their instructions.

If you want uber-efficiency, then write in machine language or, if you must move up to a higher level, write in Assembler. If you did this, you'd be able to increment a variable, for example, with maximum efficiency. You'd simply issue direct instructions to the accumulator, something like this: sta x / inc x.

Moving up to C, you'd write this: x++. But when you would examine the compiled instruction, you'd see this: sta x / inc x. Moving on up to BASIC, you'd write this: x = x + 1. The same code would be written by the compiler: sta x / inc x. (We're assuming here comparable byte data types.)

Now, in the olden days, BASIC had extremely limited data typing that resulted in bloated executable code. So, BASIC wouldn't write code directly to the accumulator. Instead, it would first assemble its data on the stack, and then move that through the accumulator because the interpreter had no way of knowing whether the number you would send it would fit in the accumulator's buffer.

So back then, x = x + 1 was compiled as a large block of code that basically used the Assembler BEQ instruction in order to anticipate the space required to process the largest possible number you could throw at it. Thus, you'd end up with something like this: mov x / sta x / inc x / seq x,y / beq x,y. To top it all off, the translation itself had to be done on the fly because BASIC was an interpreted language, and not a compiled one. Therefore, performance issues were most notable in loops, where every iteration of the loop involved calls to supporting dlls that wrote new machine code each pass through.

Those days are over. Almost every modern version of BASIC, including VB, is noninterpreted. So you aren't going to see significant differences in performance anymore except in areas where intrinsic language design is still too generalized for efficient compilation, as in string handling, for instance. BASIC strings are not null terminated memory bags the way they are in C. Rather, they are memory arrays that are retrieved by pointers that store the address of their first byte and their length.

So string handling is less efficient in BASIC than in C ... but ... unless you're writing a word processor, there's no way that string manipulation will bog down your program. The average program spends ninety percent of its time executing ten percent of its code. For a game, string handling is in the trivial ninety percent of seldom used code.

The only severe drawback with BASIC is the programmer's inability to directly manipulate memory. But just as the days have long passed when you needed to fret over having space to store four-digit years, so have the days passed when you need to wrestle chunks of memory away from other processes and manipulate it directly. Modern OSs are quite efficient at memory management. And in fact, a major cause of crashes and Blue Screens of Death these days is the continued insistence on the part of programmers that they must proprietize their own memory storage. Besides, when push comes to shove, if for some reason you simply MUST write Assembler or C code for particular localized tasks, you can compile that code and call it from within your BASIC app.

The last reasonable protest against BASIC might be that it isn't strictly OOP because of its lack of implementation inheritance (though even that is moot now with VB.net.) Believe me when I tell you that inheritence is not the holy grail that it was once believed to be. Just look at Microsoft's Foundation Classes, for heaven's sake. Or Borland's bloated Virtual Business Class. These monstrosities were far more art than they were science, and were packed with useless, memory hogging placeholders that did nothing but reserve RAM and deny it to actually useful processes.

And there are, in fact, areas in which BASIC stands head-and-shoulders above C. Interface development, for example. Fast and easy in BASIC and tedious in C (less so nowadays, but still...). Most of the user experience is with the interface, so interface development is of critical importance to a modern application of any kind, including games.

I'm not suggesting that the game be written in BASIC. I'm just pointing out that BASIC isn't the toy that it used to be. It's a powerful development tool that is used extensively by savvy developers who understand its strengths and weaknesses.

As for Java, the main point of Java is and always has been its virtual machine technology, making it highly portable. If you're content to run on, say, Windows systems, then Java is not necessary.

Anyway, I'm willing to help on the project in the capacity of project manager if anyone thinks I'm needed.