Stepping up to the plate.... - Page 5

Velociryx · January 19, 2002, 12:28

Ramses....excellent points! And to those specific questions I would say this:

One of the strengths of the model I'm using for this project is that it exists as two distinct parts.

The Free Version, and the Incorporaton.

The first is essential in getting to the second, and that's why the APB for help here and now.

Anyone who helps out here during this "purely for the love of the game" segment, even if they only help a little while and then are called away....they will have a meaningful stake in what we create together.

Since we're not going to be getting anything FOR this initial version (or, at least nothing monitarily), what they "get" is a sense of accomplishment, adventure, and the chance to be a part of something that I predict will be really special.

Perhaps, what they'll also get is a resume enhancing experience! I'd like to think so anyway!

The other thing they'll get if they choose to see this thing all the way through to the completion of phase one, is a spot on board the train when we DO incorporate. A spot on board the train will equal to something tangible at that point....money.

Right now....at this moment....the simple fact is that we're an unknown quantity. There have been a great many excellent points raised about the unliklihood of success.

I'd very much like to prove them wrong, and I get the sense that many who have posted their reservations about the chances of this project's success would *also* very much like to be proven wrong.

Personally, I think that works very much in our favor.

And, if we CAN do this, then once we have a viable product out in the field and being talked about by fans and players.....at that point it is MUCH easier to go to a venture capitalist and say....hey, here's what we've got. A fanbase of X number of players, and the following ideas for improving the game and turning it into a commercial product.

That's qualitatively different than handing a potential investor a schematic of the program and saying....well, we have this idea, see....we don't really know if people will like it or not, but will you give us money anyway?

Doing it this way, we get all our ducks in a row before we start talking to the money men, and that should make our job of securing eventual financing a whole lot easier.

Howzzat?

-=Vel=-

Velociryx · January 19, 2002, 12:33

Chowlett: Hmmm.....sadly, I do not sir! I've been working on my own test map on a wampum big posterboard.....I've got this "frame" made of three sheets of rectangular plywood (each the width of a folded boardgame panel), hinged, and I've affixed a posterboard panel to each, hand drawing the map....I built the frame when I started working on Holy War, but previous to that, I took to affixing poster panels onto my axis and allies boards...LOL

-=Vel=-

Libertarian · January 19, 2002, 13:31

Quote:

Lib, you did the crunching part in VB?

All of it, including calculating complex government protection racket withholdings for hundreds of employees at dozens of stores. Lots of jokes were made at work as I spec'd out the withholdings calculations. Lots of under-the-breath mumbling along the way.

At any rate, it's like Plutarck said above: it ain't the programming language; it's the programmer. The routines would likely have been faster in C, but it's a matter of granularity and fit to purpose.

Libertarian · January 19, 2002, 13:33

Quote:

Howzzat?

Seems like a sound plan to me, Vel.

Velociryx · January 19, 2002, 13:45

Then, my friend Lib....we are rolling!

-=Vel=-

xRamsesx · January 19, 2002, 14:03

Sounds good to me too

Chowlett · January 19, 2002, 20:42

And with that description of the first chunk of participants - if you want me, I'll be a tester-cum-soundboard-cum-bits-of-inspiration guy for you anyday. Anyday I'm free, that is.

Velociryx · January 20, 2002, 06:32

'morning all! Yep...this would be Vel, having pulled an all-nighter testing and hammering the new game into shape! Ran SEVERAL fascinating tests using the system, but I'll not go into all of that now....(subliminal message: but it ROCKS! lol)....just wanted to duck in here to say that I'm relocating the main Candle'Bre discussion over to my forum as I did with the Mod-With-No-Name so we don't muck 'poly up with a gazillion different threads about everything relating to it.

So....for everyone who's helping out, and for anyone who's just curious what we'll be up to over there, here's the link to my place:

The Renaissance Portal

Just click on the "discussion forums" link....Candle'Bre is at the top of the page!

So far, the only things there are a copy of the core rules and a sign-in thread for folks helping out, wanting to help out, considering helping out, or who just wanna put their name on the list...

-=Vel=-
PS to Steve Clark and Chowlett! You've both got PM's

-v

Velociryx · January 28, 2002, 18:35

'evening all!

Haven't been on 'poly as much in the past couple of weeks cos I've been hanging out with the folks who have volunteered their time and talents to the newest, tiniest game development group out there! Ohhh....not tiniest in terms of number of people involved, in fact, we're prolly about half the size of Firaxis if you look at it in those terms, but tiny as in "we have no fancy equipment but we're making a kickin' game anyway"

So far, what has come out of my spending time with the variety of people who have come forward with energy, enthusiasm, and talent to help make this thing happen is that, somewhere along the way we stopped being "a bunch of guys who want to make a computer game" and became a team. An important distinction in my mind, and I think the difference will be visible in what we create.

We've got the overall design of the software worked out, the core rules are in place and being professionally arranged and tweaked so that they make sense to someone OTHER than myself (sometimes I forget that not everybody can easily slip into complete chaos theory mode, and that while the rules as I originally wrote them made perfect sense to me, some folks were left....well...mystified at how it all worked.

So...that's being corrected and expanded.

We've got a website going up soon (which will contain concept art and stuff we're kicking around), and a Velocigames Corporate website in the planning stages (not bad, since the company doesn't quite exist yet...lol), and a whole host of discussions about various aspects of the game.

We've also decided to make lots of little improvements so we see steady progress, rather than tying ourselves up for months at a time without seeing the fruits of our labor...that should help keep the enthusiasm levels up for us, since we're all doing this in the odd moments throughout the day when we get free time, and none of us are gettin' paid. So! Just wanted to let you guys know that I hadn't forgotten my second home....I've just been getting everything in place to give you....something magical....

I'm off to go check on things, but I'll keep resurfacing this thread whever there's something cool to report (this time, the cool thing being that we're ready to start actually putting the game together, having done all our planning and gettin' ready!).

More later...

-=Vel=-

Velocigames

ravagon · January 28, 2002, 20:22

Quote:

Originally posted by Velociryx

Velocigames

The bookies are now taking bets on whose going to do the Strategy guide

Velociryx · January 28, 2002, 20:33

Hint to the bookies:

He's already started workin' on it....

-=Vel=-

Velocigames

Capt Dizle · January 28, 2002, 22:24

The thing that worries me about Velocigames is: It sounds like a company that might make a game about dinos. Raptors.

Jeez, I hope not. Even Sid is not that stupid.

Capt Dizle · January 28, 2002, 22:31

This whole Candle'Bre thing is so complicated Vel. Why don't you change a couple of vowels and broaden the appeal of the game a bit.

Candy's Bra.

Sounds like a winner to me. Just two cents from the marketing department.

Velociryx · January 28, 2002, 22:35

Hmmm....Candy's Bra....I'll talk to some of the artists to see if we can get some concept sketches on that...

And not to worry....if I DO come up with a dino game, it won't be anyyyyyything like you'd expect....

-=Vel=-

Velocigames
(future home of....Candy's Bra)

TCO · May 12, 2002, 19:11

There is some good stuff in here.

Ming please move to CBR forum.

TCO · May 12, 2002, 19:13

Quote:

Originally posted by moominparatrooper
Vel,

let me be so preposterous as to offer you some advice, although it's grim: step back off the plate. If you want to be a central figure in a programming development process you needn't necessarily do the programming yourself, but you need a firm understanding of how to program and where the difficulties are. Your recent musings over at your disenchanted thread - which, btw, is developing into one of the most interesting on this board since the release of Civ3, although yours truly has done his wicked best to derail it with off-topic chitchat - shows that you have no concept of just how much work some of your patch suggestions would entail. This is not a criticism of you, understand, since we all know you're a bright guy, but it is a showstopper if you want to manage a development process.

Even if you take the plunge and learn programming; which like most things needs to be practiced way more than simply learned, you should know that the odds are still long against you; sourceforge is full of dead open-sourced game projects that some enthusiast pushed for a while before real life constraints like work, school, family and friends took their toll. I think that games more than most other projects need the puts-the-food-on-the-table aspects of commercial development since the actual coding of games is about as unrewarding programming as you can imagine (contrast this to database development, which, while boring in theory, is often both challenging and rewarding from a programming point of view). Game development isn't - it's rather like accounting, except for a few spectacular highlights every now and then. All this means that you can't relay on people doing it voluntarily, just for the challenge. There isn't one. They will jump in, but as the boredom sets in, they will go somewhere else for kicks. This is where development for cash actually works.

If you are really serious about this, first learn to program. Then find a venture capitalist. Then find a well-disciplined, committed team to work with, and I would actually recommend mostly doing it by evaluating CVs, not by soliciting for help here at Poly. If you try to do it as you propose, I think you'll fail. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think so.

Or join with some of the current efforts. This wont be your baby to the same extent, but you could do a lot of good offering your enthusiasm and skill and the interest your participation will undoubtedly bring along while learning important things to take to your very own project someday.

But if you disregard all of the above and go ahead anyway, the best of luck! Because when all is said and done, the best game ever IMHO, nethack, started as an enthusiast effort and has remained so to this very day.

Moomie,

looks like all of my concerns were given to Vel a while ago. Perhaps the only thing useful that I did was to state them more agressively and confrontationally so that he would be foreced to adress them a little more deeply.

Jon Shafer · May 12, 2002, 19:35

Not to continue bursting your bubble, but they're right. The world of game design is a cruel one, at best. The success rate of amateur projects is pathetically low, mainly due to the loss of enthusiasm from those making the game, and less from those who create the game. Even in the professional world (which is where I'm heading), being a game designer is extremely difficult. Not only is it very difficult to get into that position, but to hold it you will have to design things that, frankly, you won't want to do. I admire your energy and charisma, but make sure you know where you're going, and how to get there.

In any case, good luck.

Skanky Burns · May 12, 2002, 19:51

Well that was a hell of a *bump*

moomin · May 12, 2002, 20:33

Wow, GP, you a necromancer or something? Digging this thread up should count as grave robbery.

Anyway, while I still mostly think I was right back then, you'll note that I'd would have to say Vel's made me eat my words so far. Apart from Lib leaving (which, much as I enjoyed his rants back then, I'm not sure is entirely bad for the Candy project) I've seen nothing but good signs so far - no high profile, high intensity splits with lots and lots of verbal abuse and flames all over the place.

Yes, I know. They haven't delivered anything but hot air, albeit very interesting hot air, so far. But they have come farther along the road than I would have guessed, and that has to count for something.

Anyway, holding my thums here. You Candies, get to it. Write a contract and get programmin' already, dammit!

The one thing that has me worried right now, from an operational point of view, is that I think Team Candy wastes too much time thinking about features that are going into the commercial release - if I were swinging the whip over there the focus on the first free version would be mucho greater.

Skanky Burns · May 12, 2002, 22:47

The free version is pretty much decided - we know generally what we are putting into it, we've already started working on v0.1. Basically we don't need to be talking at great length on 'Poly about that one. But rest assured - the teams working on the free version are focusing much more on the free version than on "what might be".

TCO · May 12, 2002, 23:14

1. Couldn't you still discuss the nitty gritty of the free version. Surely its design will undergo some evolution and there will be some learnings in terms of codability, speed, and user fun, no?

TCO · May 12, 2002, 23:15

Moomie, Mark Everson (Clash of Civs) linked to this thread, recently.

Mark_Everson · May 12, 2002, 23:57

Quote:

Originally posted by GP
Moomie, Mark Everson (Clash of Civs) linked to this thread, recently.

Oh sure, blame it on me!

Posthypnotic suggestions planted by a subversive alien intelligence lead me to refer to this thread.

As for my comments earlier here, I Tried to talk some sense into them proto-Candellians, but Noooo...

moomin · May 13, 2002, 05:58

Gee, GP, I'm sorry. Shouldn't have been framing you without checking it out first. It's only that it seemed a very GP thing to do, as it were.

Velociryx · May 13, 2002, 10:44

Well here's a blast from the past...good to see this thread again! I actually re-read everything just now...LOTS of good stuff here.

And Trooper...thank ya....

May we continue to be a surprise in that regard!

As to V0.1....and later iterations of the free version....it'll be CB minus most of the complexity. Most of the code group is buried in the guts of V0.1, and, since those rules are set in stone while they work, it frees me up to come here and play the role of the great sponge....soaking up new ideas for later releases, which is why there's been such a flurry of activity.

Nonetheless....a thread about where we ARE would prolly be a good thing, so people can measure the progress we've made and will be making in the future....I'll start one of those up in a bit...

-=Vel=-

The Eliminator · May 13, 2002, 17:16

Oh brother, just like your "famed" strat guide you were going to have published a few months ago. Keep your pipe dreams to yourself Vel.

Velociryx · May 13, 2002, 17:51

Hmmm....sounds like somebody has a bone to pick with me.

If so...I don't mind that a bit. Send me an e-mail (WebMaster@velociryx.every1.net)...I'll be happy to discuss it with you there.

As to being a dreamer....absolutely. Dreams are the genesis of most everything good that's ever come from the world.

As to being a pipe dream...I guess that's up to each person to decide.

On the whole though, I think I've got a pretty good track record.

SMAX Guide (Published) - Link is here:
SMAX

"Guardians" (100,000 Word Novel - Published, and can be found here:
Guardians

"Five Days in May" (100,000 Word Novel - On the way to being published, link to come shortly) excerpt to be found here:
Five Days in May

Two completed poetry anthologies, which can be found in their entirity here:
Poetry Collection

But you're right.....I'm just a windbag full of hot air.

I never finish anything I start.

Talk to you in e-mail soon I hope....

-=Vel=-
PS: If Civ3 had a teacup's worth of strategy TO it, it would have been worthy of a strategy guide, but since I devoutly believe in giving people their money's worth and not ripping them off, I elected not to write the Civ3 Strat Guide...er....pamphlet.
-V.

Velociryx · May 13, 2002, 17:54

Oh...and just to humor me....head to Civ3 Strategy and tell me how many page views the topped forum topics by the guys who wrote the game have.

Then do a quick search for Vel's Strategy Threads, volume one, two, and three, and have a look at the number of page views those threads have gotten.

Just...you know...a quick comparision. Let me know what you discover.

-=Vel=-

moomin · May 13, 2002, 18:02

Quote:

Originally posted by The Eliminator
Oh brother, just like your "famed" strat guide you were going to have published a few months ago. Keep your pipe dreams to yourself Vel.

Your thoughtful contribution has been duly noted. Now go play somewhere else, kid.

FrustratedPoet · May 13, 2002, 19:11

Quote:

Originally posted by The Eliminator
Oh brother, just like your "famed" strat guide you were going to have published a few months ago. Keep your pipe dreams to yourself Vel.

I have no useful contributions to make.

I just like to troll people for no reason ... they're only minding their own business and trying to have some fun, but I can't accept that and I think that I know better.

I post my insults in stupid quotation marks because I think that is ironic and witty.

I tell people to keep their opinions to themselves and yet have no qualms about sharing my rantings with people who don't even give a s**t.

Aren't I clever?

Everyone look at me.