Need money? Intermediate trade!

rremus · October 18, 2000, 03:09

Say you're in contact with two civ's which are not in contact one with the other. You know that one city in obne of the civs demand a good which is supplied by a city in the other civ. You should be able to use a caravan to intermediate a trade route between the two, with a large profit for you.
Something like this: A new option when you create a caravan, beside what the city supplies and food caravan: a 'demand' caravan. You send your caravan to the supplier city. When it reaches the city, it should ask you if you what goods to return from that city. If the city that sent the caravan does not need that good, the good should be made available in the supply of the city. You then build a new caravan, choose this new good when the caravan is ready and then sent it to the city that demands it. This should bring you good money.

Evil Capitalist · October 18, 2000, 03:23

I sincerely hope this becomes part of the finished game- many trding empires were based on entrepot trade, most notably the Dutch.

October 18, 2000, 04:19

Good idea, rremus!

I've always thought that entrepot trade should be possible in the game. But I don't quite like the idea of a 'demand' caravan.

Tiberius · October 18, 2000, 06:30

Good idea!

Still I'm not so enthusiastic about the "demand" caravan. I hope there will be caravans in Civ3 (don't kill the camel!!), but the entrepot trade could be part of a screen based trade system.

Deathwalker · October 18, 2000, 06:42

Great idea,

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I have walked since the dawn of time and were ever I walk, death is sure to follow

October 18, 2000, 07:38

I agre with you, the active part of intermediate trade should also been taken into account.
But there should also be a passive intermediate trade. I think the way trade routes go from A to B should be determined by communication lines: roads, railways, easy passable terrain. By doing that trade routes would often pass intermediate cities who should profit from the trade and be able to interrupt trade. That's what happened when the arabs cut the trade routes from Europe to India, so Europeans looked for other ways to bypass the arabs, discovering thereby America and the way around Africa.
If there could be a feature including that I'd be delighted.

Builder · October 19, 2000, 15:31

I say cancel the whole caravan/freight thing.
make it like in SMAC.

makes the game much simpler.

though it will be nice to find some middle ground.

Builder · October 19, 2000, 15:35

ok, here's my idea, though i'm sure someone already thought about it :

I build a caravan, but he not appears as a unit.
i'm asked where do I want this caravan to go and after some time(feel free to decide how the time will be set) it will appear there.

no need of moving dozens of caravans but you still can manage this aspect of the game.

Dom Pedro II · October 19, 2000, 16:47

Yes, down with Caravans! They stink.

Actually, I've discussed this many times before. I think that roads, railroads, rivers, canals, and ocean should be capable of sending different amounts of a commodity per turn to different cities. And a player who has the entire coast of a continent, can force the other player to trade through them. This would be done by buying from another civ and resaling to the inlanders. Its the old Sphere of Influence tactic. He who controls the ports controls all.

The trick is to buy the commodities for less than what you sell them for. I also thing that another way to be the intermediate is to take raw materials imported from other civs and manufacture it into new materials and sell it to buyer countries. It makes an interdependent system which is much more realistic.

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"...The highest realization of warfare is to attack the enemy's plans; next is to attack their alliances; next to attack their army; and the lowest is to attack their fortified cities." - Sun Tzu

Dom Pedro II.... aka Hannibal3

Dom Pedro II - 2nd and last Emperor of the Empire of Brazil (1831 - 1889).

October 19, 2000, 19:30

quote:

Originally posted by Builder on 10-19-2000 03:35 PM
I build a caravan, but he not appears as a unit.

Sounds like CtP, don't you think?

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Wernazuma alias Cheshirecat alias Wörn

Master Mind of the World of Arendra

Va-Toran · October 20, 2000, 17:07

I would suggest a refined version of the CTP Trade system without the need for special trade goods that are fixed to map squares. But where the goods and caravans are invisible.

Builder · October 20, 2000, 18:39

quote:

Originally posted by wernazuma on 10-19-2000 07:30 PM
Sounds like CtP, don't you think?

dunno, never played.

UltraSonix · October 20, 2000, 19:21

quote:

I build a caravan, but he not appears as a unit.

I agree.

quote:

A new option when you create a caravan, beside what the city supplies and food caravan: a 'demand' caravan. You send your caravan to the supplier city. When it reaches the city, it should ask you if you what goods to return from that city. If the city that sent the caravan does not need that good, the good should be made available in the supply of the city. You then build a new caravan, choose this new good when the caravan is ready and then sent it to the city that demands it. This should bring you good money.

I think this would really make the game too complicated. Besides, I see a flaw in that if you send out a demand caravan demanding goods you don't need, then you should need to pay for it (maybe in terms of negative trade). Otherwise, it doesn't take into account that to be able to supply those goods in the first place, you must be buying them first!

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Christantine The Great · October 21, 2000, 19:33

I had once suggested that when a trade route is created a unit representing the caravan is created in City A. This unit takes the quickest way to City C even if it requires going through City B.

Gold Toll Hides
A----Gold------------->B------Gold----------->C

City B can demand a toll for going through that city and using the city roads. City B might be in a pass between two mountains (Petra). The caravan would go to city C and trade its goods for the Hides plus tax (The money you get.). A caravan leaves City C and travels to City A.

Gold Toll Hides
A<---------------------B<-----------Hides------C

If you were a nomadic nation you could get the caravans while they were away from the city.

Gold Toll Hides
A-------Gold--------->B-----Gold---(Barbs)--------C

You would not have to manage or build the caravan. To protect it from pirating you could assign it an escort that would let the caravan escape each time but lose 25% of its worth (Stolen).

When tech permits it you could assign caravans airplanes for cities far away. Airplanes would be expensive to maintain but would be useful in protecting it from nomads or attacking armies.

Anyone attacking a caravan would get a cash amount of what they stole (25%).

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rremus · October 23, 2000, 02:57

I think the CTP model of trade was very good, but I miss the HELP BUILD WONDER option Civ2 caravans have. Also, the food caravan.
How about a "Shields Caravan"? It should take, with each turn, shields from the source city to the destination city, either to help it in its current production, either to help it maintain units. Cities located near mountains and hills could export shields to cities located in valeys wich in turn could export food back to the mountains!