Firaxis - Editable rules text files: last chance

[EnochF]

Who knows how many more patches will be released before Firaxis and Infogrames finally give up on this product? That's why I think, now, before it's too late, somebody should finally bite the bullet and give us fully modifiable text files that alter the game rules for Civ III. Complete with the ability to add new techs, new units, new improvements and wonders (and governments, which we can already add), and give us the ability to tie them all in with custom user-designed graphics (in standard formats) without crashing the game. Give us the ability to add and edit the Civilopedia entries for everything too.

That's not all I want from Civ III, but it's all I can hope to expect at this point. Either that, or an editor that provides us with these features (but I honestly don't think that's reasonable at this point). And go ahead and throw in as many extra features as you possibly can, things none of us have even thought of yet. I don't know what kind of rabbits you can pull out of your hats, but I know I'll be impressed.

When the final patch comes (and hey, it might be safe to assume every patch you work on is the last patch) I expect these features. If they're implemented, I'll open up Civ III again (which I haven't touched since early November), and I'll work on a very extensive mod. I'll stay up late nights. I'll design and play Civ III extensively. Why? Because I'll have at my disposal all the tools necessary to make the game playable and fun from my point of view. I'll make my dream game piece by piece.

If full customization is never implemented... well, don't expect to sell an expansion pack to me, and I'll just have to try my luck selling my copy of the game on eBay.

EnochF
(who, by the way, gives full credit to the programming team for taking the advice of the Wonders thread I edited for the List and implementing Small Wonders)

Consider this the first draft of an e-mail I'll be sending to Firaxis soon. I'd like to get some reactions, so maybe I can edit it a little before it goes out.

[OneInTen]

Oh I can just imagine Firaxis receiving this email:

"Oh no, unless we do all these things this poor pooor person won't play Civ anymore. What are we going to do? Quick, lets pull out all stops just for him, because gosh knows we weren't aware that people had asked for these features before. I couldn't live knowing that there's a person out there not playing Civ 3".



It seems when some people heard in primary school that every person is important they took it entirely out of context.

[cassembler]

I think we should give Firaxis a shot. They gave us something that was rushed a bit, and they know that, and I think many guys on that team sincerely like Civ3. They'll work on it.
Have some faith.

I recommend messing with the editor as is. There's still numbers to play with.

[plug] try the Hardcore Strategy Map [/plug]
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=40135

[FrantzX]

With the editor, you can change a good amount of the game. Considering that you can't add new techs, etc., it has about 50-60% all the features you need. You can downloaded a hacked editor that allows you to add it. * The first patch for Civ III did add new editing capability, although they were not the ones many wanted. It is safe to say the any futures patched will do the same. And frankly, I have had it up to here with editing text files for Civ II and SMAC/X.


*
This point can easily be refuted, because the official editor should have this feature. And you're right. However, I believe that the community making their own apps for a game shows that the community is going to be around for a while. For example, take the Total Annihilation community. Fan have created everything you need the change the game from map editors to unit creation tools. This RTS is about five years old and the fan base is as strong as ever. (With less *******s than Starcraft, too!) For proof, go to http://www.planetannihilation.com/

[MarkG]

Originally posted by EnochF
give us fully modifiable text files that alter the game rules for Civ III.

first of all, due to the way things are programmed, i dont see such a thing being possible to be done
second, there has been tons of mods with changed rules, what's stoping you do the same?

[The Viceroy]

Well .. it would be nice to make some changes, apart from the minor fact that if you change anything, the game becomes unstable .. I added a single Government extra ... and CIV3 crashed 9 times out of 10 .. had to re-install.

However, don't get me wrong, unlike some, im not crying over this .. Firaxis are no doubt working hard to fix many of the problems, I believe they will in time, but we need a little patience.. Its Ironic, we complain that these companies release stuff too early, and then start screaming for a patch ..

Firaxis, take your time, get it right .. and let those who cry .. wait, cos ultimatly, they will be the same people who praise you when you get it right.

Now I will return to my Diety level games, which are proving to be enough of a challenge to keep me going in the mean time.

[Special_Olympic]

I don't think they can really fix the muddle of code they've gotten into with Civ3.

It'll never happen.

[The Viceroy]

I don't think they can really fix the muddle of code they've gotten into with Civ3.

It'll never happen.

Err have you got the source code ?

It doesn't matter to us if its in a muddle .. as long as it works.. and the code they have written so far does a damn good job .. im confident in there abilities .. its the conceptual errors which concern me, the original ideas that don't work .. there the ones which take a huge amount of effort to implement .. Ie, colonies, stacking units, battle calculations etc.. and thats why I said, let them take there time, and fix it ...

[Spatzimaus]

The existing editor lets you do almost everything you want to do. The only things really missing are:

> The ability to add new techs
> The ability to add new units
> The ability to add new buildings

Other than that, it's pretty amazing. In fact, I even came up with a workable interim solution:

Remove the Modern Era!

Really, just toss the thing. Take any units, buildings, and techs, and put them into earlier ages (changing names, stats, etc, into something completely different). That gives you the ability to add 17 new techs, 11 new units, a random assortment of buildings (many of which can be moved into the Industrial as is; rename Mass Transit to be Sewer System, put it at Sanitation, and voila), and so on.

Of course, this removes the Diplomatic and Spaceship victories.

[Qilue]

The Viceroy

Perhaps your problem here may be that you failed to apply the 3 basic rules of game modding.

1) Make a backup of any files to be changed.
2) Did you make a backup of those files before you changed them.
3) Check that you made a backup before changing any files.

Then when you f*** something up, you can easily restore the game without having to reinstall.

Text game rules files.

Eww, good riddance. I can only theorize that you have never edited the SMAC rules files and you're basing your desire on the Civ2 rules files.

[EnochF]

Qilue: You theorize incorrectly.

The rest: Uh... thanks.

[EnochF]

The existing editor lets you do almost everything you want to do. The only things really missing are:
> The ability to add new techs
> The ability to add new units
> The ability to add new buildings
Other than that, it's pretty amazing.

Yes. Well, aside from that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play?

first of all, due to the way things are programmed, i dont see such a thing being possible to be done

An editor that gives us all the flexibility of editing a Civ II text file would be acceptable.

second, there has been tons of mods with changed rules, what's stoping you do the same?

The answer to this one should be obvious: The editor is inadequate. It can't add anything except governments, and it can't link to user-defined graphics. That's what's stopping me.

[Plutarck]

> The ability to add new techs
> The ability to add new units
> The ability to add new buildings

Um...so, you mean I haven't added 5 technologys, 27 units, and 10 buildings to the LWC Mod, as well as to totally change just about ever other facet of the game? (and in earlier versions I added 3-4 governments, but I haven't overhauled the government system yet and have left them out so far)

Sure, it still crashes in some instances (the Huge maps seem to have the most trouble), but it's now adays just an occassional thing now that I've fixed most (if not all) of the crash bugs I can find.

And comparing the amount of downloads (nearing 1500 on the current version alone) to the amount of complaints (most of those are only occassional crashes, and apparently not enough to not to continue using the mod), apparently the modification options aren't nearly as limited as you think.


Heck, I wrote a whole tutorial on how to do all the additions well over a month ago (I'll be re-writing it one of these days to make it more simple), so the ideas that such things aren't addable is very out-dated.

Not that all things are modifyable to my satisfaction, but seing how as I've spent many, many hours of the last 2-odd months on making Long Winded Changes (LWC), apparently there is plenty of room left to work on the game which so sadly is lacking in lacquer, paint, or polish.

[MonsterMan]

...having only one real competitor; Call to Power. It enjoys the same position as SimCity does. That's one of the reasons Civilization III can have as long shelf-life as Civilization II had. But they do need to implement the features the poster of this thread wanted. Those wishes are nothing extra-ordinary when it comes to customizing games nowadays. Heard of Morrowind? They'll let players create entire 3D worlds, script events, et cetera.

[MarkG]

Originally posted by Plutarck
Um...so, you mean I haven't added 5 technologys, 27 units, and 10 buildings to the LWC Mod, as well as to totally change just about ever other facet of the game?

no you havent
you leave in a fantasy world

[Special_Olympic]

Originally posted by The Viceroy


the conceptual errors which concern me, the original ideas that don't work .. there the ones which take a huge amount of effort to implement .. Ie, colonies, stacking units, battle calculations etc.. and thats why I said, let them take there time, and fix it ...

That's the problem. The conceptual errors are no doubt wrapped up in the code, making it a HUGE job to fix this game. I can tell just from playing the game that some of these things would be very difficult fixes.

I don't think they are up to it.

[CapTVK]

Originally posted by The Viceroy

However, don't get me wrong, unlike some, im not crying over this .. Firaxis are no doubt working hard to fix many of the problems, I believe they will in time, but we need a little patience.. Its Ironic, we complain that these companies release stuff too early, and then start screaming for a patch ..

Firaxis, take your time, get it right .. and let those who cry .. wait, cos ultimatly, they will be the same people who praise you when you get it right.

When you no longer can detect if a post was meant as (A)sincere, (B)sarcasm or (C)irony. You know things are NOT okay.


If you really think Firaxis/Infogrames is actually going to release a patch with major updates like proper scenario support and hotseat. Months after the official release. You're only deluding yourself.

Wake up and smell the coffee!

[Deathray]

I'm sure we'll get a fully working editor eventually. Hopefully with a minimap so I can see what I'm doing. My only worry is that they might put it in an expansion like with the extended editor features in Conflicts in Civilzation and Fantastic Worlds. Actually, that's not really a worry. If they release an expansion then I'll get it whatever.

[Libertarian]

Yes. Well, aside from that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play?

[Immortal Wombat]

Originally posted by Spatzimaus
The existing editor lets you do almost everything you want to do.

Then 'you' are not ambitious enough. See any CtP2 mod to see what can be done.