Warmongering Woes

Dimension · January 19, 2002, 12:54

When playing aggressively, I think most are familiar with the way my early game generally goes. I like the Aztecs. Use Jaguar Warriors to explore and take workers. Build early Barracks and some Archers to take down your nearest opponent. Horseback Riding is just two techs away, and when you get it, you quickly take over the whole continent except two or three cities for each civ, sue for peace and then you've generally got the first 12 or so Ancient Times techs.

At this point, my games don't seem to follow conventions that I see on this forum. Even though I leave the other civs with just a couple cities, no iron or horses, and in an overall inferior state, they don't keep renewing peace. They like to refuse my demands and even cancel Rite of Passage agreements after awhile.

Also, I feel a bit like Alexander the Great when I take over my continent so early. When I'm still in BC and don't even have Monarchy and The Republic, how am I supposed to beat down civs on other continents? If I'm very lucky, I can find a strait short enough to ferry Horsemen to another continent with a Galley, but that's not generally the case. Magnetism is a long way off.

I play on standard maps with all standard settings (except I always set Raging Hordes). Lately, I've been playing Monarch. Sure, I could just play on a Pangea map with low water and conquer the world very early, but that seems like a lame solution. What strategy am I missing? This is the way most of my games are going. I am stuck on a continent with a few gimp civs that I have beaten into submission, and meanwhile the civs on other continents are researching and trading like mad, but I don't have any contact with them. I'm stuck with a ton of horses, a continent full of size 6 cities, and nothing to do, nothing to build.

Nakar Gabab · January 19, 2002, 15:17

You could send some galleys out on risky missions across the sea - it depends on the map size, but I've often found sending out a galley on a prayer pays off.

I'd then trade communications with the civs on your continent to the others for lots of tech, and THEN finish all the other civs on your continent off. They'll just slow you down. Take over your continent and you should be bascially secure for the rest of the game. Trade your map for plenty of cash and tech, and you should keep up, then launch the knights/cav/tanks/whatever-you-can-get-to and start attacking. Try to find a weakened civ and join in a war against them. All you need is one city on the coast to start ferrying forces across the sea.

Blitzer · January 19, 2002, 21:06

Ah the woes of the pop rushing despot

You are killing your opponents too quickly. I rarely if ever take the continent before cavalry for this very reason... if you crush the AI you cannot take advantage of their tech bonus. You miss out on all the best wonders

Try putting off your conquest for another tech or two... idealy you shoud sue for peace and gain tech to bring you into the middle ages... at this point you are probably going to want to settle down and build infrastructure and a few cities for at least a little while.

Assuming you have two or more rivals on your landmass, you probably want to take our one with ancient units and use the other two as trading partners for a little while...

Of course if you are determined to conquer the world and make no friends, I would suggest ramping up to the lighthouse as soon as possible.... otherwise by the time the AI you haven't met makes contact, you will be spending the next 2000 years just trying to catch up to their cavalry

Dimension · January 20, 2002, 07:18

Quote:

Originally posted by Nakar Gabab
I've often found sending out a galley on a prayer pays off.

A Galley can NEVER end its turn in an Ocean square without sinking, can it?

Aeson · January 20, 2002, 11:19

Quote:

A Galley can NEVER end its turn in an Ocean square without sinking, can it?

It can happen, but its quite rare. Almost always when a galley is on an ocean square in my games it was an accident, probably happened about 20 times. Out of those 20 times only one didn't sink. The weird thing is that it also didn't sink the second turn (figured I had a chance of making it across since I was already so far out). Every other time it's been "treacherous waters".

Nakar Gabab · January 20, 2002, 12:12

Quote:

Originally posted by Aeson

It can happen, but its quite rare. Almost always when a galley is on an ocean square in my games it was an accident, probably happened about 20 times. Out of those 20 times only one didn't sink. The weird thing is that it also didn't sink the second turn (figured I had a chance of making it across since I was already so far out). Every other time it's been "treacherous waters".

That happens to me every now and then, too. I usually play on small or standard maps, so the actual distance your galley has to travel isn't that long.

I also often have the Lighthouse. Granted, it doesn't let your galley go over ocean, but it DOES let you end your turn on the farthest possible sea square, then NEXT turn send the galley as far afield as possible. Many times I've gone west into deep waters only to find shallower ones JUST outside the fog. And since you now have a galley in alien shores, you can get contact without buying it - and sell it to YOUR continent.

Hermann the Lombard · January 21, 2002, 15:21

When sending out your intrepid Leif Erikson or St. Brendan in his longship or coracle, look for tendrils of "sea" extending (often) from peninsulas on your continent. Often those will meet a tendril of sea coming out from the adjacent continent...and less chance of sinking at sea than "at ocean." I usually have to send 4 or 5 galleys to make contact. A couple will make it across, but one usually finds a vacant large island (or an otherwise-isolated solitary civ).

Your initial intrepid victims often sink in sight of land, so at least you know to try the same spot (I guess survivors washed back to the home shores, or at least a message in a bottle).

Arrian · January 21, 2002, 15:34

Yeah, the sacrifice (or risk of sacrifice) of some brave galley captains & crew is definitely worth it for contact with the rest of the world. I do this all the time. I play normal maps/continents and I shoot for the Great Library, which is most valuable when you know everyone. I usually find an outcropping of land, sail to the farthest "safe" point, and then launch my galley in a straight line. Sometimes they sink... often, actually, but sometimes they make it. I've had galleys survive 2 consecutive turns out in the middle of the ocean. Making contact is definitely worth it, as you will be the first, and can trade or sell techs before any of your continental rivals.

-Arrian

Dimension · January 24, 2002, 16:22

Well, regardless, I suppose that after I conquer a whole continent, I can just go to 100% science and beeline for Magnetism if I'm that stuck.

My bigger problem seems to be:

Quote:

Even though I leave the other civs with just a couple cities, no iron or horses, and in an overall inferior state, they don't keep renewing peace.

I just can't get all the inferior civs to keep giving me money and tech. I want to leave them a few cities so they can do some research, but they don't seem to want to listen to me unless I attack them every 20 or 40 turns and take them down to 1 or 2 cities. A lot of times, they don't renew peace every 20 years.

I wish there was a "submissive pact" like in SMAC.