what is the most important secret project for you?

k.k.fly · January 20, 2002, 23:14

In any kind of game, name "one" secret project that is most important to you.

Name only one please, the most important one. If you name two or more, you are not answering the question.

To me, Command Nexus!!!

Lefty Scaevola · January 20, 2002, 23:31

Cloudbase academy

mrdynamic · January 21, 2002, 00:44

Hunter Seeker Algorithm... My personal favorite, allows you to maintain a tech lead ... and dont have to worry about probe protecting your bases. If I dont build it, my goal is to annex the bases you has it.

moi · January 21, 2002, 01:10

i like to get weather paradigm early on.

later on, hunter-seeker, cloning vats, and cloundbase academy are good.

johndmuller · January 21, 2002, 02:44

I think it varies with the faction; for example, if you are a faction like Yang, Morgan, Aki and maybe Sven, who need to pop boom via Golden Age, the Human Genome Project is very useful.

Clear Skies · January 21, 2002, 13:47

In the very earliest game, you can't beat the Weather Paradigm - early condensors and boreholes, plus x2 terraforming, really helps you out in the early game.

After that, the Empath Guild. Get it early enough and you can get about 14 technologies for the price of 3! Especially good for tech trading if the other factions haven't yet made contact...

In the middle game, definitely the Hunter-Seeker Algorithm. A must.

Kassiopeia · January 21, 2002, 14:18

Ascend to Transcendance. The effect is rather small, you just win the game...

Clear Skies · January 21, 2002, 15:40

Well, there ARE three other ways to win, whereas there's only ever one Hunter Seeker...

Yxklyx · January 21, 2002, 17:19

Hunter Seeker Algorithm. I've never found a good use for Wealth or Power but Knowledge gives that negative Probe which the HSA combats.

Flubber · January 21, 2002, 18:54

Quote:

Originally posted by Yxklyx
I've never found a good use for Wealth or Power but Knowledge gives that negative Probe which the HSA combats.

I'm a little suprised by this. I too seldom use power but I find wealth to be a very useful SE choice. I generally find myself in wealth when I am in a major building stage and often find that I will switch to it for a number of turns to complete facilities. I also think that +1 Econ is underrated as a benefit. The morale minus does not matter at all if you are not building units or fighting.

I can't fault the choice of the HSA but personally if I can only get one SP, I would take the CBA. Apart from its military benefits it makes the space race oh so economical

vootguy · January 21, 2002, 19:14

Peacekeepers + Human Genome Project = never having to worry about dronies.

vootguy · January 21, 2002, 19:18

And of course, the Hunter Seeker Algorithm is incredibly powerful as well... never worrying about lost tech.

knowhow2 · January 21, 2002, 20:45

That's why The HSA should be banned or moved upwards on the tecc tree. Way too powerfull...

Rex Little · January 21, 2002, 20:55

Hunter-Seeker. Weather Paradigm is a close second.

vitamin j · January 21, 2002, 22:49

I've thought about it a lot, and I think I have to go with Virtual World. Network nodes are must-have improvements for me, (and nevermind the University!). Getting that node/hologram theater in every base is awesome. They normally cost 60 mins to build and 3 energy to maintain. That's a lot of savings. Two less drones and +50% psych output per base. And it comes a lot earlier than the HSA or the CBA, early enough to compensate for pop booms, free market, etc., in time to get you an advantage.
I used to think WP or HGP... But I'll take the VW. The HSA is awesome, but by the time you get to it, you should have solid probe defenses already in place. And if you're dedicated, you can achieve essentially the same results that the HSA gives you... And do you really need an aero complex in every base, anyway?

Mr. President · January 22, 2002, 03:25

The Weather Paradigm. Love those condensors, and love that video!

Frankychan · January 22, 2002, 04:39

I forget the name of the secret project that once you build it, none of your bases get drone riots after completion.

The cinematics are a Gaian colony and some type of "being".

I'm probably wrong but the name of the secret project might be the "Telepathic Matrix" or something close to that.

The Hunter-Seeker Algorithm would have been my choice but when I play, I have a MAJOR drone riot problem. The HSA is extremely useful, however.

MariOne · January 22, 2002, 08:30

The Matrix comes too late in the game. Typically, when I acquired the ability to build it, I was about to win in few turns.

I'll not answer to the question in that I'll not refer to *any* kind of game.
I won't consider specific factional aspects or advantages, but I'll refer to:
- SMAC games (i.e. leaving alone the 7 new SMAX projects which I have little experience with, although the CBA really has an impressive impact)
- my experience from actually played PBEMs.

Well, each SP has its utility, and those who played against me know that I'm an SPmonger.
Of course WP is very important in the early game, CV can do magic for Hive or Morgan but it comes a bit late (luckily), spcific game settings/context may enhance the utility of certain others...
but *looking back* at my actual multiplayer experience I can say that the project which probably had the most determinant impact on most of my games is the EG. This of course because of my style of play.

I would borrow the words of a better player than me, JAMiAM, who once said that you have to know how to exploit the EG benefits, which would go wasted if you are an "abrasive or ham-fisted diplomat"...

RedFred · January 22, 2002, 13:18

Just one? Just one? I can't do it. It depends on the game and the faction played.

Hard to disagree with MariOne. For most factions the EG is hard to beat in MP games. Total infiltration makes it extremely powerful and the votes are an added bonus. Wars have been fought over the ownership of this highly-prized SP. On large or huge worlds EG will also give you comlinks far more quickly than you would otherwise get them.

In SP I would agree with vitamin j for Uni. VW is key, assuming transcend level drones.

In SP with Morgan the WP is almost unbeatable. He can get plus one energy without running FM and drones are less of an issue with his hab limits.

For many other factions in SP, the HGP is huge (again assuming transcend level). That early talent gives you so much SE flexibility. Often I'll be able to run FM as soon as I discover the tech for it. Plus you get an extra worker or specialist for the given infrastucture.

For a low tech or low energy faction like Miriam, Domai, or Yang the ME can give your faction a huge boost.

So there are five great projects. Only four over my limit. You will note that I made no mention of the CBA, HSA or CV. Awesome as these projects are, they will not be working for you for the whole game. The early projects can give you such an edge that you should be in great shape by the time the later SPs come up for grabs.

Earwicker · January 22, 2002, 14:12

I'm a big HSA fan because it simplifies things when I finally do take the fight to the (AI) enemy: no more worrying about Domai and his 150 EC buying back the size 7 base I just captured and stocked full of chaos needlejets.

A more interesting question would be this: "If you could have only one SP during the game, which would it be?" To that question my answer would definitely not be HSA, CBA, or Vats. Each of those projects is of the "push over the top" variety in terms of power: the top faction will usually get them and start to run away with the game. But it's the careful use of HGP, VW, ME, or WP that gets you there in the first place.

Having only one makes the answer completely dependent upon faction / style, and to some extent who your neighbors are. For the most part, I'd say either HGP is the key (unless I'm Zakharov, in which case it's VW).

Hmm, I'll have to try that out and see how much tougher the game becomes having only one SP . . . or is there already such a chellenge that I forgot about?

MariOne · January 22, 2002, 15:30

Well, of course the Nomad Challenge is the toughest I can think of, and of course in it you end having no SPs at all...

vootguy · January 22, 2002, 18:07

I need to Play SMAC more so I can keep up with all the abbreviations. I just kind of scan the posts on this thread, and can mostly make out the more familiar ones... HSA of course

. But I have to rely on context usually...

Flubber · January 22, 2002, 20:05

Quote:

Originally posted by MariOne
Well, of course the Nomad Challenge is the toughest I can think of, and of course in it you end having no SPs at all...

I really enjoyed the nomad challenge but found it frustrating since on the first couple of attempts I would find myself separated from my victims with no unity foil from the pod pops. I did complete it as the cult . In the end result, I think things like OCC transcendence were harded

Back to SPs-- I usually find that getting the CBA can be a game changer in MP in ways that many of the others are not. Getting it or not so fundamentally alters the military situation. Only the HSA has as widespread an immediate tactical effect IMHO.

I do agree as to the long standing impacts of the early ones mentioned but lots of time if I miss the WP and get the HGP or VW I feel ok. In MP if I can obtain one of those three I feel like I am in the game.

k.k.fly · January 23, 2002, 17:04

I had summarized these thoughts one by one and here is the result:

4 Hunter Seeker Algorithm
3 Weather paradigm
3 Human Genome Project
2 Cloudbase academy
1 Ascend to Transcendance
1 Command Nexus
1 Virtual World
1 Telepathic Matrix

Strict to my original question, if you had named more than 1 secret project, only the first one is counted. But please don’t feel upset because other people may learn few ideas from them. And of course if you’d refused to answer accordingly to my question, none of those thoughts were counted. Yes, choosing the most important project for ‘any’ game is hard, and most of you had done it and put lots of thoughts. Apparently, Hunter Seeker Algorithm rocks. (even though i disagree)

If you have second thoughts and would like to change your original votes, you could simply edit your message putting “Edit” as post subject, and I will update the votes.

Ogie Oglethorpe · January 23, 2002, 17:36

HGP

Og

Ogie Oglethorpe · January 23, 2002, 17:39

He He,

I've never had a five letter post before. (Fact is I'm known for being rather verbose.)

Just thought I'ld try something different for a change

Og

Adalbertus · January 23, 2002, 17:42

WP

RedFred · January 24, 2002, 15:15

k.k.fly- shouldn't there be a couple EG votes?

k.k.fly · January 24, 2002, 16:57

4 Hunter Seeker Algorithm
4 Weather paradigm
4 Human Genome Project
2 Cloudbase academy
1 Ascend to Transcendance
1 Command Nexus
1 Virtual World
1 Telepathic Matrix

People who have mentioned EG and reason why omitted from counts.

MariOne: I'll not answer to the question in that I'll not refer to *any* kind of game
RedFred: Just one? Just one? I can't do it. It depends on the game and the faction played

If some of you have second thoughts and would like to change your original votes, you could simply edit your message putting “Edit” as post subject, and I will update the votes.

EDIT: ops sorry. I have correct the HSA, and HGP mistake pointed out by ogie. Thanks.

Ogie Oglethorpe · January 24, 2002, 17:19

K.K.Fly

Ummmm.... I think you placed my HGP in the poll as a HSA.

Og