Utopia - Age 15: The Age of Valour

Zopperoni · January 22, 2002, 12:14

Alright folks, it's the new age again, so I made a fresh thread for it

Zopperoni · January 22, 2002, 12:19

Quote:

Hmmm....

Should I go Mystic Elf? With the big advantages of +25% Magic and -20% military costs and the small advantages of less war losses?
Or Avian, with lots of homes(this will be very important after the early game) but with no other helpful advantages?

Btw, Faeries suck.

Look at me, I'm a Faery, I've got wings, weeehhh!!!

I'd say go Elf/Mystic. You have more advantages than Avians.

DinoDoc · January 22, 2002, 12:30

What's a good dwarf attacker strat?

Zopperoni · January 22, 2002, 13:05

An overview of the changes for Age 15:

Quote:

The Utopian Age of Valour contains several changes to the Utopia gaming engine. If you have not viewed the updated Guide to Utopia, please check that from the Utopia Homepage for all the latest game updates. Included below is a quick summary of major changes:

KINGDOM RELATIONS

The entire kingdom relations system has been redesigned. More information can be found within the Guide & Game in the Kingdom Relations help sections.

AID

* Trade Tax is now calculated including current shipment of goods
* First 10 days of gameplay involves no 50% NW Tax Limitations

MAGIC

* Distance penalty effects have been increased
* Size differentials on self-spells cast on others by elves reduces likelihood of success (to help prevent 200 acre provinces from effectively casting spells on 2000 acre provinces at a fraction of the cost)
* Anonymity will be available to Humans, Halflings, and Faeries
* Patriotism will also lower the effects of Propaganda
* Droughts will also slow the draft process and cancel any Storm spells
* Storms cancel any Drought spells
* Haste has been renamed to "Builders' Boon"
* Meteor Showers are weaker and more difficult to cast
* Greed also increases draft expenses
* Nightmares do more damage, but instead of killing troops, it simply forces them into retraining for 12 hours.
* Amnesia does more damage, but much of it is temporary. Most of the lost science is simply placed into re-learning, while a small portion is lost permanently.
* New Spell, LandLust, simply steals enemy land. Spell will be war-only, relatively weak and difficult to cast, but count towards combat gains/losses in wars.
* Townwatch no longer reduces gains in combat

THIEVERY

* Distance penalty effects have been increased

ATTACKS

* The Multi-Attack/Gangbang Protection system has been redesigned to account for attacks, thievery, and magic. In addition, it will weigh the damage of different attacks differently and is much more fluid than the previous system. It may have to be adjusted a bit in-game, but it promises to be far more "realistic" than the current system.

BUILDINGS

* Mills will be upped to 3% / 75% Max (building costs)
* Armouries: 2% / 70% Max
* Barracks: 0.5% / 20% Max to Offense Bonus
* Forts: 2.5% / 50% Max (Battle Gains)
* Hospitals: 5% / 80% Max (Combat Losses)
* Watchtowers: 4% / 60% Max (Both Training Costs & Catching Thieves); plus, 4%/60% Max of identifying opposing thieves when operations fail
* Schools: 1.5% / 60% Max
* Universities: 3% / 75% Max
* Libraries: 1.5 Points / Day
* Dungeons: Prisoners no longer naturally die (they still die of Plague, though); Prisoners work 1/5 of a single job for Utilization purposes
* Thieves' Den: No Longer has 1% Stealth Bonus, but now offers +1% Thievery Effectiveness (No Max)
* Homes: Require $10 / Day in Maintenance

PERSONALITIES

* Rogue will offer +1% Stealth each hour
* Generals will get the Conquest Attack during both WAR and HOSTILE, and will have a more powerful version than other players, who now will get the attack in WAR.
SCIENCE

* Science points required to maintain level science will rise more quickly as a province grows
* Science will get marginally cheaper as the game progresses ($1 / real day). Science now starts a bit more expensive.

RACE CHANGES

* Halflings: get $1000 elites, +50% Thievery Effectiveness, +20% Utilization
* Avians: +10% Military Costs, Cannot use Mercenaries
* Undead: -25% Science Effectiveness & Maximum
* Dwarves: +50% Birth Rates

MISCELLANEOUS

* New Provinces will show as "Unclaimed" until a player's first login
* Players cannot Defect/Delete their account while their army is away

Because of the number and nature of the changes we're implementing, we expect there to be several bugs over the first week or two of gameplay. If you come across any bugs, please post in the Bugs & Suggestions message board. There will be an updated list of Bug Fixes at the top of that board as the age progresses.

Zopperoni · January 22, 2002, 13:07

Where's everybody?

I'm on BF - 24:17 - Cabbage of Carnage

Zopperoni · January 22, 2002, 13:09

Quote:

Originally posted by DinoDoc
What's a good dwarf attacker strat?

Work with a lot of Armories, train a lot of Berzerkers, attack till ~500 acres, do a Science pump.
Then trade Armories for Hospitals and Barracks and continue attacking

Eli · January 22, 2002, 13:19

WoU... Damn, WoL(

) Bla Bla Bla(13:16).

After couple hours of number crunching and trying over 20 different strategies as both Mystic Elf and Mystic Avian I decided to go with Mystic Elf. The strat is :

30% Banks(including whatever mines I may have)
30% Armouries
11% Guilds
11% Towers
8% Farms
10% Universities

The plan is to explore ~60 acres, plus get ~15 from bonuses and end with ~280 acres OOP.

In total, I have 20PPA, 5PPA unemployed.
OOP I should have 1.8EPA and 0.5TPA. Which will give me 10DPA with MP, the others will be unemployed to increase util to 110%, though in all calculations I used 100% util to get less optimistic estimates.
In the first 48 hours I will produce aproximately 640,000gc. 310,000gc will go on military training, 250,000gc on construction, 70,000gc on exploration and 50,000gc on drafting soldiers.
Which will leave me after 48 hours, thanks to the 250,000gc we get in the beginning, with ~200kgc to spend on science, mainly Alchemy and a bit of housing. OOP I should have ~6SPPA in Alchemy and 1-3SPPA in Housing.
Draft rate will be 20%.

I will continue with this strategy until 500 acres, and then I will probably reduce armouries and banks in favor of some Homes.

It looks great, unless I missed some basic factor that will screw my whole strat.

And of course, everything is still a subject to change.

Zopperoni · January 22, 2002, 13:27

Eli,

the fact that Science has become more expensive this Age, isn't it better to start with Libraries, and to build the Uni's later?

Eli · January 22, 2002, 13:35

I tried that too.
10% Libraries, will give me after 72 hours a total of ~2300-2600SP in all 7 categories. And since it's random, each category will get ~330-370SP. Basically, for me, I lose out of those points more than 1000SP because they go to useless categories.
If I use 10% Universities, and pay 200,000gc(after 48 hours) I will get ~2500SP(24 hours later, exactly OOP) in the one or two categories I want.

So Libraries, though they give in total the same amount of points and cost less money(no need to pay for the points) are practically useless, since the maximum I'll have is 1.5SPPA for every category, and this will give me only ~1-3% of the maximum effeciency.
While with universities, I will have ~4PPA in two usefull categories, which will give me ~8-12%(I may be a bit wrong here) of the maximum effeciency for each category.

This is why I go with 30% banks and 30% armouries. I need money for the universities to keep certain, not too high, level of science in two or three useful categories.

Eli · January 22, 2002, 13:42

I'm trying to run this strat using the Prophet(www.utopiatemple.com/prophet.php).

Zopperoni · January 22, 2002, 13:53

I'll have a go on it with this strat:

08% Farms
57% Banks
20% Guilds
10% Towers
05% Hospitals

Eli · January 22, 2002, 14:06

57% Banks???

------------------

The Prophet says that building costs 1kgc instead of 800gc, so I lost 50kgc in the simulation.
The results were different than I expected. 1 hour before OOP :

The Province of Bla Bla Bla (0:0)
[http://www.UtopiaTemple.com Angel v1.24 Beta]

Utopian Date: March 24th, YR0
RL Date: November 2nd, 2001 (5:00 GMT)

Ruler Name: Mr. Eli the Sorcerer
Personality & Race: The Mystic, Elf
Land: 274 Acres
Money: 206,302gc
Food: 13,659 bushels
Runes: 11,651 runes
Population: 5,580 citizens (20.36 per Acre)
Peasants: 4,463 (92% Employed)
Jobs: 4,108 (106% Utilization)
Trade Balance: 0gc (0% tax rate)
Networth: 19,323 (70.52 per Acre)
Thieves+Wizards+Science Networth: 1,352gc

Soldiers: 349 (18.6% estimated draft rate)
Heroes: 0
Archers: 0
Elf Lords: 548 (2,740 offense and defense)
War-Horses: 0

Total Attack points: 3,438 (12.55 per Acre)
Practical (50% elites): 2,068 (7.55 per Acre)
Total Defense points: 3,438 (12.55 per Acre)
Practical (50% elites): 2,068 (7.55 per Acre)

[500 Acres land assumed for thieves calculation]
Thieves: 143 (0.29 per Acre / 100% Stealth)
Wizards: 77 (0.28 per Acre / 100% Mana)

Crystal-Ball on your province will show:
Maximum Possible Thieves: 225 (0.45 per Acre)
Estimated Thieves Number: 169 (0.34 per Acre)
Maximum Possible Wizards: 225 (0.82 per Acre)
Estimated Wizards Number: 54 (0.20 per Acre)

Buildings: 1,067gc to build, 425gc to raze
Away bonus: 22,315gc (12h) / 66,945gc (20h)

------

Also I made a few mistakes by not changing the draft rate to 20% in the very beginning, not casting L&P ASAP and not using wisely the 12h bonuses(which could give me another 20kgc).
The 200kgc I wanted to have after 48 hours werent really there.

But the end result is +11.5% in Income and +3.6% in Housing, 1 hour before OOP, as expected. Together with 600 more points on their way.
Add to it the 50k I get from buildings, and I will be able to leave protection with 300 acres.

-------------

Here's the log file. The hours advances are according to the times I will be able to log in.

_______________________
January 1st, YR0
--------------------------
Got the daily 5 acre bonus
Double-built 23 Guilds
Double-built 23 Towers
Razed 35 Homes
Built 63 Armouries
Built 43 Banks
Razed 4 Farms
Built 22 Universities
Explored 10 acres
Advanced 2 days
_______________________
January 3rd, YR0
--------------------------
Advanced 2 days
_______________________
January 5th, YR0
--------------------------
Explored 9 acres
Advanced 1 days
_______________________
January 6th, YR0
--------------------------
Built 1 Armouries
Advanced 2 days
_______________________
January 8th, YR0
--------------------------
Built 1 Banks
Built 1 Guilds
Explored 3 acres
Draft set to 20%
Advanced 6 days
_______________________
January 14th, YR0
--------------------------
Built 1 Farms
Built 2 Armouries
Built 2 Banks
Built 1 Towers
Built 1 Universities
Built 1 Armouries
Built 1 Banks
Built 1 Farms
Built 1 Banks
Advanced 2 days
_______________________
January 16th, YR0
--------------------------
Built 1 Armouries
Explored 8 acres
Advanced 10 days
_______________________
February 2nd, YR0
--------------------------
Got the daily 5 acre bonus
Built 3 Armouries
Built 3 Banks
Built 2 Guilds
Built 2 Towers
Built 1 Farms
Built 1 Universities
Built 1 Armouries
Built 1 Banks
Explored 24 acres
Casted Love & Peace (12)
Trained 42 Thieves
Advanced 5 days
_______________________
February 7th, YR0
--------------------------
Built 1 Armouries
Built 1 Banks
Built 1 Guilds
Built 1 Towers
Built 1 Universities
Trained 112 Elf Lords
Advanced 6 days
_______________________
February 13th, YR0
--------------------------
Built 3 Armouries
Built 3 Banks
Built 1 Farms
Built 1 Guilds
Built 1 Towers
Trained 131 Elf Lords
Advanced 12 days
_______________________
March 1st, YR0
--------------------------
Collected 20895gc logout bonus (12h)
Got the daily 5 acre bonus
Built 6 Armouries
Built 6 Banks
Built 2 Farms
Built 2 Universities
Built 2 Guilds
Built 2 Towers
Trained 70 Thieves
Trained 24 Thieves
Trained 248 Elf Lords
Advanced 4 days
_______________________
March 5th, YR0
--------------------------
Built 1 Universities
Studied 600 of Alchemy
Studied 279 of Housing
Advanced 8 days
_______________________
March 13th, YR0
--------------------------
Studied 732 of Alchemy
Studied 200 of Housing
Trained 149 Elf Lords
Advanced 11 days
_______________________
March 24th, YR0
--------------------------

Zopperoni · January 22, 2002, 14:51

Quote:

Originally posted by Eli

57% Banks???

I have the income-disadvantage as a Faery, and I have no Armories. (I'm training def specs only till 500 acres.)

Eli · January 22, 2002, 14:58

This is too crazy. But this might work.

Zopperoni · January 22, 2002, 16:48

I've gone Halfer/Rogue now:

This is what I'm thinking of:

08% Farms
25% Armories
30% Banks
25% Guilds
12% Towers

DinoDoc · January 22, 2002, 19:16

Why no homes?

Quote:

Originally posted by Zopperoni

I've gone Halfer/Rogue now:

This is what I'm thinking of:

08% Farms
25% Armories
30% Banks
25% Guilds
12% Towers

Chowlett · January 22, 2002, 19:31

I just fly, and see where it takes me.

DinoDoc · January 23, 2002, 01:51

My dwarf attacker build

210 Acres - 700 Acres:
Homes: 40%
armouries:15%
Mines: 15%
Farms: 10%
Guilds: 10%
Towers: 5%
Stables: 5%

700 Acres and up:
Homes: 40%
Mines: 5%
Farms: 15%
Banks: 20%
Guilds: 10%
Towers: 5%
Stables: 5%

Please give me improvements to the build. Also, what is a good # of elites to have per acre, in order to both attack and defend?

Zopperoni · January 23, 2002, 06:24

Quote:

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Why no homes?

Because Homes now require 10gc maintenance cost, per home, per hour.

Zopperoni · January 23, 2002, 06:54

Quote:

Originally posted by DinoDoc
My dwarf attacker build

210 Acres - 700 Acres:
Homes: 40%
armouries:15%
Mines: 15%
Farms: 10%
Guilds: 10%
Towers: 5%
Stables: 5%

700 Acres and up:
Homes: 40%
Mines: 5%
Farms: 15%
Banks: 20%
Guilds: 10%
Towers: 5%
Stables: 5%

Please give me improvements to the build. Also, what is a good # of elites to have per acre, in order to both attack and defend?

Cut on the Homes, with your low percentage of Armories and no Banks, you'll never have enough money.

205 - 500 acres
12% Farms
35% Armories
35% Banks
10% Guilds
05% Towers
03% Stables

This is what I would roughly suggest.
If you can get 3-4 Berzerkers per acre @ 300 acres
5-6 Berzerkers @ 400 acres
7-8 Berzerkers @ 500 acres
that would be strong.

BTW: are you on WoL?

Eli · January 23, 2002, 09:44

Without homes, and with 100% util you will have 5 not working people per acre. Until 500 acres, it's enough to keep 1 TPA, 3EPA and the rest to wizards or exploring troops.
So you dont need homes.
500-1000 acres, you'll need something like 20-30DPA, and with 15% housing science you will have 8 free people per acre, which is enough for 1TPA, some WPA and 30DPA.
Remember, this is early age, DPAs can be much lower than in the mid age.
After 1000 acres, you will need some homes.

Now I remembered that you're an attacker. So you may need some homes after all. Anyway, if you're an explorer/paradiser you wont need homes until 1000+ acres.

I also changed my province name to Sanctuary of Bla Bla to fit the kingdom theme.

Eli · January 23, 2002, 10:31

Here's my 500-1000 acres strat :

Armouries - 25%
Banks - 15%
Towers - 21%
Guilds - 10%
Hospitals - 6%
Universities - 15%
Farms - 8%

Unless my calculations are wrong, this is a high-money strategy, and the universities will allow me to keep high levels of science.
When on 500-750 acres, I will be able to have 20DPA and on 750-1000 acres, 25-30DPA, together with fast paradising of 40+ acres per day.
On 1000 acres I'll make a sci pump, and then consider the use of homes.

DinoDoc · January 23, 2002, 16:48

Quote:

Originally posted by Zopperoni
205 - 500 acres
12% Farms
35% Armories
35% Banks
10% Guilds
05% Towers
03% Stables

Would this build work from 500 acres on? If not how would it need to be adjusted? Can an attacker really build population fast enough to sustain a large army?

Quote:

This is what I would roughly suggest.
If you can get 3-4 Berzerkers per acre @ 300 acres
5-6 Berzerkers @ 400 acres
7-8 Berzerkers @ 500 acres
that would be strong.

Thanks for the info.

Quote:

BTW: are you on WoL?

Yes, yes I am.

Zopperoni · January 23, 2002, 17:25

Quote:

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Would this build work from 500 acres on? If not how would it need to be adjusted?

I'd reduce Armories and Banks and get Barracks and Hospitals for them.

Quote:

Can an attacker really build population fast enough to sustain a large army?

I actually don't know with the changes made this age, but you could always run a strat on Prophet.

You can download it from www.utopiatemple.com
There are also other strats you can view on that site

Makeo · January 23, 2002, 20:26

Quote:

Originally posted by Chowlett
I just fly, and see where it takes me.

I'm with you.

War4ever · January 24, 2002, 00:06

I am Fenway Park SoS again..... human warrior with a nice strat i have had some help with...... landed in 4:4 this age on WOU or whatever the new name is....

good luck to everyone in the new age

Eli · January 24, 2002, 11:22

**** **** *****!!!

I forgot to set the draft rate and lost whole 5 hours of drafting!

But besides that, everything works great.

War4ever · January 24, 2002, 20:23

dont feel bad..i dont' start drafting until the 12th hour this age!

but thats part of my strat

Eli · January 28, 2002, 06:34

Post your CBs!
(attacking people who post them here is forbidden

)

The Province of Sanctuary of Bla Bla (13:16)
[http://www.UtopiaTemple.com Angel v1.25 Beta]

Utopian Date: May 5th, YR0
RL Date: January 27th, 2002 (10:00 GMT)

Ruler Name: Mr. Eli the Sorcerer
Personality & Race: The Mystic, Elf
Land: 376 Acres
Money: 103,563gc
Food: 18,581 bushels
Runes: 1,370 runes
Population: 7,337 citizens (19.51 per Acre)
Peasants: 5,761 (87% Employed)
Jobs: 5,012 (110% Utilization)
Trade Balance: -117,910gc (8% tax rate)
Networth: 29,246 (77.78 per Acre)
Thieves+Wizards+Science Networth: 1,837gc

Soldiers: 0 (19.9% estimated draft rate)
Heroes: 0
Archers: 0
Elf Lords: 1,283 (6,415 offense and defense)
War-Horses: 0
Prisoners: 0

Total Attack points: 6,415 (17.06 per Acre)
Practical (50% elites): 3,210 (8.54 per Acre)
Total Defense points: 6,415 (17.06 per Acre)
Practical (50% elites): 3,210 (8.54 per Acre)

[500 Acres land assumed for thieves calculation]
Thieves: 175 (0.35 per Acre / 100% Stealth)
Wizards: 118 (0.31 per Acre / 90% Mana)

Crystal-Ball on your province will show:
Maximum Possible Thieves: 306 (0.61 per Acre)
Estimated Thieves Number: 230 (0.46 per Acre)
Maximum Possible Wizards: 306 (0.81 per Acre)
Estimated Wizards Number: 72 (0.19 per Acre)

Buildings: 899gc to build, 459gc to raze
Away bonus: 28,805gc (12h) / 86,415gc (20h)

Zopperoni · January 28, 2002, 09:49

Quote:

The Province of Cabbage of Carnage (24:17)
[http://www.UtopiaTemple.com Angel v1.25 Beta]

Utopian Date: May 8th, YR0
RL Date: January 27th, 2002 (13:00 GMT)

Ruler Name: Mr. Belthazor the Rogue
Personality & Race: The Rogue, Halfling
Land: 310 Acres
Money: 173,520gc
Food: 33,121 bushels
Runes: 2,967 runes
Population: 6,533 citizens (21.07 per Acre)
Peasants: 3,946 (100% Employed)
Jobs: 4,604 (108% Utilization, Possibly Mills)
Trade Balance: 0gc (0% tax rate)
Networth: 27,040 (87.23 per Acre)
Thieves+Wizards+Science Networth: 5,506gc

Soldiers: 132 (37.3% estimated draft rate)
Spearmen: 0
Archers: 1,570 (6,280 defense points)
Half-Giants: 0
War-Horses: 0
Prisoners: 0

Total Attack points: 264 (0.85 per Acre)
Practical (60% elites): 264 (0.85 per Acre)
Total Defense points: 6,544 (21.11 per Acre)
Practical (40% elites): 6,544 (21.11 per Acre)

[500 Acres land assumed for thieves calculation]
Thieves: 733 (1.47 per Acre / 100% Stealth)
Wizards: 152 (0.49 per Acre / 100% Mana)

Crystal-Ball on your province will show:
Maximum Possible Thieves: 918 (1.84 per Acre)
Estimated Thieves Number: 688 (1.38 per Acre)
Maximum Possible Wizards: 918 (2.96 per Acre)
Estimated Wizards Number: 218 (0.70 per Acre)

Buildings: 431gc to build, 437gc to raze
Away bonus: 19,730gc (12h) / 59,190gc (20h)