Why are Nukes available to everyone?

rremus · September 29, 2000, 08:27

After one civ completes the Manhatan Project, anyone can build Nuclears. I think is not realistic, such a technology would be a best kept secret by any civ! Something similar to the project should be build by each civ in order to get Nukes.

Marcel I · September 29, 2000, 09:14

It's only available to your rivals if they got rocketry.
I must agree with you though. The USSR didn't get their nuclears by simply discovering rocketry in real life. They had to steal the technology.
It would be realistic if every nation that wants nuclears would found a special project first.
There are some threads proposing this one way or another (minor wonders available to each civ once).

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Adopt, Adapt and Improve

Shadowstrike · September 29, 2000, 17:45

Maybe if everyone had to either build their own version of the Manhattan Project, or steal the secrets (the most difficult task for a spy) from a city which has a version of the projects (which would be heavily guarded) it could be more realistic...

Mo · September 29, 2000, 19:08

If it is implimented that every civ has to build there own version of the Manhatten project it should become cheaper after each civ that completes it because some information will always leak. Time since the first building of the Manhatten project should also lower the cost since more information is leaked/made public over time. And the fact that one nation has completed it will prove that it is possible already should lower the cost. Stealing it should be really hard, but just getting some information which will lower the cost of your Manhatten project should be easy. Just consider how many people worked on the Manhatten project or in making atomic bombs after that.

Stuff2 · September 30, 2000, 09:53

Wouldn't it be a great idea with all minor wonders to make them sheaper as time progress?

October 1, 2000, 13:41

Actually, there is a much more simple solution to this. Just make it so that as soon as the Manhattan Project is built, the builder gets a technology. Then everyone else can only acquire that technology through stealing it or receiving it in diplomatic negotiations or when they take one of the holder's cities. In fact, this can already be done in TOT using the Events.

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"...The highest realization of warfare is to attack the enemy's plans; next is to attack their alliances; next to attack their army; and the lowest is to attack their fortified cities." - Sun Tzu

Evil Capitalist · October 1, 2000, 15:22

I suggest a 'testing site' improvement, as I said in the 'demi wonders' thread. That way only large/sparsely populated/widespread nations can research the nuclear option.

SWPIGWANG The Second · October 1, 2000, 19:22

ANY DEVELOPED NATION WITH A NUCLEAR REACTIOR CAN MAKE A WAR HEAD IN UNDER ONE YEAR.

SAD TRUTH

As for ICBM missiles....thats another matter

rremus · October 2, 2000, 03:04

How about that after the project is succesfully finished, you get 1 Nuclear unit (usefull in negotiations). In order to produce other nukes, oyou and other civs would have to build a very expensive city improvement, say a "Heavy water factory". The cost to this improvement would be similar to a wonder. Then, only cities wich have this improvement would be capable of producing Nukes. Maybe the nation that creates the Manahatan Project will even have a lower cost to producing this improvments or get one free in the city that built the wonder!
This way you have a wonder in the clasical sence and a way to make Nukes production difficult enough.

October 2, 2000, 11:57

How about having to build a nuclear test-device.. It would be a unit which would have to be transported by some other unit like a truck or train, and would have to be detonated before you even get the option of embarking on a nuclear program.. Detonation would be an incident after anti-nuke treaties are signed..
And selecting a place to detonate would be important, too.

Maybe later you could detonate underground (perhaps this is one place where 'levels' could come in)..

Just an idea...

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-Shiva
Email: shiva@shivamail.com
Web: http://www.shivamail.com
ICQ: 17719980

Shadowstrike · October 2, 2000, 18:26

The problem is that without reasearch you don't have anything to detonate....

I'd think that it could be a multipart thing, first you build the "labs" as an expensive improvement, then you plunk down a large amount of beakers, then you have a "test" and if it fails, you'll have to redo the research part. However, if you're not the first person to do this you also should be albe to "steal" the secrets with a spy in the city with the "labs"

October 3, 2000, 10:11

Good idea.. but you'd still need to 'test'. No country (except for maybe Israel) has gone nuclear without a test.

Maybe (a la China & Pakistan, N. Korea), you could 'gift' nuclear capability to a civ. Perhaps you could just give them some required techs, or help fund the labs or just give them nukes..

After the signing of some sort of non-proliferation treaty, this would be an incident...

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-Shiva
Email: shiva@shivamail.com
Web: http://www.shivamail.com
ICQ: 17719980

Shadowstrike · October 3, 2000, 17:56

The problem still remains of MAD. If other civs are not up to par in tech, you can nuke them into oblivion. There should be serious problems should you choose to launch a nuke. Furthermore, a nuclear missile consists of 2 components, a missile and a payload. The missile should be grated after researching a "rocket" tech, but without it, nukes can only be carried by aircraft.

FreeChina · October 4, 2000, 17:41

While on the topic of nukes, if you have 'em and your opponent decides to nuke you, you ought to have the ability to retaliate so they don't get blown up on the ground. Aircraft (placed on alert status at double shield cost) could also scramble. Of course, it wouldn't be 100% successful and you would need warning radar.

SWPIGWANG The Second · October 4, 2000, 21:32

Basicly

Nuclear Reactor = Nuclear Warhead in one year (WHAT ONE TURN NUKES!?!?)

And Guy with Nuke = Auto win

I'd say that nukes should do ALOT of environmental damage and raise unhappiness across the world as well as lower food production. The big tech empires sure is going to suffer more from that. Nukes should do less damage...perhaps killing less than 80% of the pop and armed forces of the hit city(Or kill according to work areas...eg a farmer working 5 tiles away will not die)

Maybe a nuclear shelter is buildable after the first nuke is build to all civ, reguardless of tech?

Mo · October 4, 2000, 22:43

How about once the first civ has created the manhatten project all the other civs have to build a prototype of their nukes at a higher cost.

rremus · October 5, 2000, 09:39

quote:

Originally posted by Mo on 10-04-2000 10:43 PM
How about once the first civ has created the manhatten project all the other civs have to build a prototype of their nukes at a higher cost.

Yes, all the civ's need to complete something exhaustive in order to produce nukes.
Having nukes is another story

'Friendly' civs could give them, event to those missing the proper technology. They could negotiate, 'Declare war to russians and we'll give you 2 nuclear missiles to help you'.
Also, the missiles should have a much longer range, be be truly intercontinental. Any point on the map should be within range.
And MAD also is important. I can hardly wait to see how will be implemnted in CTP2, it looks promising.

October 5, 2000, 11:59

The missile payload idea is important - You build a missile and can fit it with different types of warheads.. Some nuclear warheads (differing in megatonnage), Chemical, Biological or Conventional warheads... Or even depth charges..

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-Shiva
Email: shiva@shivamail.com
Web: http://www.shivamail.com
ICQ: 17719980

Lonestar · October 5, 2000, 17:58

Heck why don't we make a "MIRV" payload that doubles nuke damage.....

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"You may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you"

"Soylant Green is people. PPPeeeoooppllleee!"

DarkCloud · October 7, 2000, 21:48

The discovery of nuclear warheads should work like the Spaceship project with
each city building a component..
-Research (Must have 3 scientists)
-Uranium (Must be near Uranium Mines)
-Testing (Must be under pop 5)
-Control (Must be isolated *10 tiles away from all other citites*)

UltraSonix · October 30, 2000, 07:35

I'm sorry for the bumping, but this was just too funny:

quote:

Testing (Must be under pop 5)

I'm sure your civ will be very happy after that!

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No, in Australia we don't live with kangaroos and koalas in our backyards... Despite any stupid advertisments you may see to the contrary...

red_jon · October 30, 2000, 17:11

quote:

Originally posted by DarkCloud on 10-07-2000 09:48 PM
The discovery of nuclear warheads should work like the Spaceship project with
each city building a component..
-Research (Must have 3 scientists)
-Uranium (Must be near Uranium Mines)
-Testing (Must be under pop 5)
-Control (Must be isolated *10 tiles away from all other citites*)

So you're saying that you must own a city size 3-5 (3 of which scientists) AND be near uranium AND be 10 tiles away from other cities?

That'll be easy!

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...And if the British Commonwealth and its people live for a thousand years, man will still say "this was their finest hour"- Winston Churchill.

October 31, 2000, 01:57

quote:

Originally posted by rremus on 09-29-2000 08:27 AM
After one civ completes the Manhatan Project, anyone can build Nuclears. I think is not realistic, such a technology would be a best kept secret by any civ! Something similar to the project should be build by each civ in order to get Nukes.

Again, another great idea to add realism to the game! Way 2 go, rremus!

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JRH