Who wants to be obsolete?

Carolus Rex · January 29, 2002, 07:48

Ok, so Gunpowder and Mobile Warfare (I think?) render existing barracks obsolete. Which other techs have the same effect?

Carolus

Gothmog · January 29, 2002, 09:53

Those advances don't really make barracks obsolete. They're sold off and you have to rebuild them. There are not any other advances that cause any other improvements to be sold off.

Other advances do have some effect on improvements. Communism reduces the effect of Cathedrals by 1.
Theology increases the effect of Cathedrals by 1.
Electronics increases the effect of Coloseums by 1.
Ceremonial Burial increases the effect of Temples by 1
Mysticism increases the effect of Temples by 1.
You have to have Monotheism to have cathredals work at all.

Carolus Rex · January 29, 2002, 14:17

Quote:

Originally posted by Gothmog
Those advances don't really make barracks obsolete. They're sold off and you have to rebuild them. There are not any other advances that cause any other improvements to be sold off.

Barracks are sold off when you discover certain techs, symbolising that the old schools of training military men are not fit for the present era. They are obsolete ("existing barracks are antique") and you have to rebuild them. But are there other advances triggering the selling off of barracks?

Carolus

DaveV · January 29, 2002, 14:24

Quote:

Originally posted by Carolus Rex
But are there other advances that triggers the selling off of barracks?

No, I think you exhausted the list in your first post. It's probably worth noting, though, that each new version of barracks is more expensive to maintain: 1 gold/turn for ancient barracks, 2 gold/turn after gunpowder, 3 gold/turn after mobile warfare.

Carolus Rex · January 29, 2002, 14:29

Hi!

Long time, no see.

Seems you answered my question while I was correcting my English.

Thorough answer, as always. Thanks!

Carolus

Gothmog · January 30, 2002, 12:13

Didn't understand your original question.
Gunpowder and Mobile Warfare are definately the only 2 advances that sell off barracks or makes them obsolete in your terms.

About the word obsolete; I was using it a very technical sense as CIV II uses it. Wonders and units, but not other city improvments are made obsolete by particular advances.

You used obsolete in a general sense, and I don't disagree with it.

Scouse Gits · January 30, 2002, 18:40

Quote:

Originally posted by Gothmog
Ceremonial Burial increases the effect of Temples by 1

Not quite ... you must have Ceremonial Burial to build Temples.

----------------------

SG(2)

shade · January 31, 2002, 11:25

Quote:

Originally posted by DaveV

No, I think you exhausted the list in your first post. It's probably worth noting, though, that each new version of barracks is more expensive to maintain: 1 gold/turn for ancient barracks, 2 gold/turn after gunpowder, 3 gold/turn after mobile warfare.

Are we talking about Civ2????

Shade

DrFell · January 31, 2002, 11:38

Quote:

Originally posted by shade

Are we talking about Civ2????

Shade

Yep, barracks definitely get sold off after gunpowder and mobile warfare, and increase in maintenance cost.

Gothmog · January 31, 2002, 13:12

Quote:

Originally posted by Scouse Gits

Not quite ... you must have Ceremonial Burial to build Temples.

----------------------

SG(2)

You're right. I make so many scenarios where I change around the pre-reqs so much that I forgot that.

Campo · January 31, 2002, 13:56

Maybe you were thinking of Mysticism -- doesn't that double the effect of temples?

Carolus Rex · February 1, 2002, 09:30

Since this thread has degenerated into a squibble about words I may as well continue...

Yes Campo, Gothmog was thinking of that. I even suspect that's why he mentioned it in his first post...

Carolus

shade · February 1, 2002, 15:40

Quote:

Originally posted by DrFell
and increase in maintenance cost.

Howcome I never have to pay maintenance when I have Adam Smith's??
(btw I never found any refference to such thing in the game/manual)

Shade

Smash · February 1, 2002, 19:25

1st barracks=1 gold maintainence
2nd barracks=2 gold
3rd barracks=3 gold.

Theoretically,Adam's would only pay for the first barracks since it pays upkeep on all improvements that cost 1 gold upkeep.

War Academy is good till the last barracks upgrade.A very good wonder when one considers all the possible maintainence that is saved...in addition to its normal benefits of allowing a flexible frontline.Too bad war academy doesn't give a barracks in every city(same landmass) like it does in Civ3

shade · February 1, 2002, 19:29

So why is there nothing about that to find in the game(ie Civ2.42)

Shade

Carolus Rex · February 4, 2002, 07:15

I can't say whether you actually will find this info in the game or not. But hardly any game manual or in-game information covers everything.

Carolus

shade · February 4, 2002, 10:41

Quote:

Originally posted by Carolus Rex
I can't say whether you actually will find this info in the game or not. But hardly any game manual or in-game information covers everything.

==> this would qualify as crucial info...
(not paying->paying double->paying tripple(that's as much as a bank))
Still,I never noticed any of that.

Shade

Julius Brenzaida · February 4, 2002, 11:00

Is it not in the civiclopedia

There's a lot to learn by reading it

The informations about barracks are definitely true.
And someone might correct me as I am not sure, but I think that in ToT barracks are sold immediatly when the upgrading tech is discovered while in previous versions you need to sell them before they simply disappear. For example just before gunpowder, you ought to sell all your barracks for 40 gold each, because when you discover GP you lose them all. Am I right

DaveV · February 4, 2002, 11:51

From CIV2README.TXT:

Code:

-------------------------------------------------------------
Rising Maintenance Cost for Barracks
-------------------------------------------------------------
The maintenance cost for the Barracks improvement increases by one gold 
each time it is rendered obsolete by a civilization advance.   When 
first constructed the cost is one gold.  After the discovery of Gunpowder 
and the Barracks is rebuilt it costs two gold.  Finally, after the 
discovery of Mobile Warfare and the Barracks is rebuilt the cost is 
three gold.

Julius - antiquated barracks are sold automatically in Civ 2; having to sell them off yourself was a Civ 1 problem, as I recall. From GAME.TXT:

Code:

The development of %STRING0 has rendered all existing
Barracks obsolete.  Antiquated Barracks sold for %NUMBER0 gold.

shade · February 5, 2002, 11:11

Quote:

Is it not in the civiclopedia

not that I know of...I think I'll look it up...

No,its very strange to me,it's the first time I hear of something like that...
I know they get solde after the invention of certain techs...wich happens immediately in Civ2(that I know for sure,you get a popup=> the invention of XXX has antiquated your barracks are sold of for YYY gold)

Shade

shade · February 5, 2002, 15:12

Quote:

From CIV2README.TXT:

Ok I had the chance to go take a look in the civilopedia

Shade

==> this is what I get:

shade · February 5, 2002, 15:22

and this is the rest my civilopedia tells me about baracks...
==>So you see why I am so surprised...
this is something I never have heared of before...
(and my version seems to mention it nowhere

)

Scouse Gits · February 8, 2002, 04:42

Let's knock this one on the head ...
An F5 shot from a game in which Gunpowder, but not Mobile Warfare had been invented ...

shade · February 8, 2002, 11:23

(I'll try that with cheat one of the days...This is so strange)

Shade

La Fayette · February 8, 2002, 20:22

Here is my knowledge:
1) Barracks cost 40 shields (1 gold/turn maintenance cost before discovery of Gunpowder).
2) When Gunpowder is discovered, all your barracks are sold automatically (40 gold each). If you rebuild any, the cost remains 40 shields but the upkeep becomes 2 gold/turn.
3) When Mobile Warfare is discovered, all your barracks are again sold automatically (40 gold each). If you rebuild any, the cost remains 40 shields, but the upkeep becomes 3 gold/turn.

STWA replaces all barracks anywhere in the world until Mobile Warfare makes it obsolete (but it also makes ANY unit veteran after 1 fight won, which is VERY precious when you build ironclads without owning LH).

Smash · February 8, 2002, 20:49

Actually,in civ2,the war academy does NOT count as a barracks.
Makes any new land unit veteran and any unit that wins a combat is updated to veteran.
There is no "fast healing" of a barracks.

La Fayette · February 9, 2002, 06:12

That's right. No 'fast healing' with STWA. I forgot to mention that.

Lars-E · February 10, 2002, 22:11

Quote:

Originally posted by Smash
There is no "fast healing" of a barracks.

The Civilopdia says about barracks: "Repairs damaged ground units in one turn". This can be seen on the picture provided by shade. Is the Civilopedia wrong here? Are there other mistakes in it as well and in the manual?!

Carolus Rex · February 11, 2002, 06:19

The unit has to be in a city with barracks, though (to heal in one turn).

Yes, there are other mistakes in the documentation. I think there is a post about the major ones somewhere... One of them concerns the effect of JSB. There are also dubious advice in the manual, like the "tip" to reload whenever a hut outcome is unsatisfactory.

Carolus

Smash · February 11, 2002, 21:16

Theres lots of them.
Hoover Dam is wrong I think.Cope's and Sir Isaac are switched.
The Capitolization entry says "converts sheilds into trade"
It says settlers under Commie eat 1 food

I could go on for awhile.