Unit Morale Question...

Control Freak · January 31, 2002, 11:11

I've notice in my early playing that morale upgrades can be affected 4 ways.

1. By social engineering choices / faction played
2. Base improvements (command center etc.)
3. Good Ol' Monoliths
4. Combat experience

My question has to do with #4: Does the morale rating in your social engineering choices - faction bonus/restriction have an affect on whether or not a unit is upgraded in morale level after winning a battle?

I've noticed that the closer the battle the bigger chance my unit would recieve the morale upgrade. Is there any truth to this or is it just my imagination?

Shai-Hulud · January 31, 2002, 12:33

Quote:

I've noticed that the closer the battle the bigger chance my unit would recieve the morale upgrade

What do you mean by that?

All I know is that the lower the morale - greater the chance of an upgrade. I'm not sure how does the results of the combat itself effect but I'd bet that the upgrade is more likely when it's a tough fight(the odds are just slightly better for you)

Darius · January 31, 2002, 13:03

Quote:

the closer the battle the bigger chance my unit would recieve the morale upgrade

Closer to what?

TresXF · January 31, 2002, 13:38

closer to death and total destruction...

Control Freak · January 31, 2002, 14:10

TresXF hit it on the nose - I find that if my unit is taken down to the low red area of the health bar I seem to get an upgrade in morale. However, if my unit steam rolls the opposition (stays in the green on the health bar while destroying the enemy) I am much less likely to recieve a morale upgrade.

Is this some designer plan to indicate that winning a tough battle hardens the troops much more effectively than an easy slaughter would? If so I think that is very cool and well designed.

Shai-Hulud · January 31, 2002, 14:55

I believe that's correct. Tough fight - more likely to get upgraded. It's also a lot harder to train commando than green unit. Now, does anyone know any exact formula for moral upgrades?

Blake · January 31, 2002, 15:20

Very Green and Green units always gain a morale upgrade from battle (unless ofcourse, they die). Note, they gain the morale upgrade even for destroying units with no defense, such as colony pods.

Once a unit is disciplined or better it comes largely down to luck. I dont know a formula but my experience indicates that a unit is most likely to get an upgrade when it loses about half its health in the battle, a unit which steam rolls, or a unit which won but was totally hammered doesnt seem to gain morale very often (but I have seen it happen).

Also, it seems that what determines the chance of a morale upgrade, is not the actual outcome of the battle, but the expected outcome, basically the closer the ratio of weapon:armour the more likely a morale upgrade will happen - regardless of the health of the victor.

RedFred · January 31, 2002, 16:31

Even if you are not green or very green, that first battle usually upgrades you. And don't forget that your prototype unit is always +1.

Not sure if it was a 'feature' or a bug that causes your elite native units to not get the movement bonus.

vitamin j · February 1, 2002, 00:26

The "High Morale" or "Trained" special ability has not been mentioned. I've hardly ever used it. Someone told me that the morale benefit lasts even if you build the unit with the ability and then upgrade to a design without, but I don't think I've tried.

johndmuller · February 1, 2002, 03:10

The "Trained" attribute is helpful if you are trying to get a decent morale out of units built under "Wealth". If, under "Wealth", you build a "Trained" unit in a base with a Command Center and a Bioenhancement Center and further upgrade it at a Monolith, you can get "Commando" morale. The same works for Sea units with a Navy Yard instead of a Command Center (although submerged Monoliths are rare) and with Air Units and an Aerospace Center (topping out at "Veteran" unless you find a Monolith Balloon). It is possible that a Children's Creche is also necessary in the home base.

If you are flush with ec's (i.e. FM Morgan), you can build Trained Shell units and upgrade them to something else, allowing the use of both Attribute slots without losing the training morale upgrade. Ugrading an untrained unit to a design with Trained has no effect on morale and is therefore not recommended, except as misleading information to be fed to spies.

Typically, as Morgan, I would want to make "Clean" units and use the other attribute for some constructive/destructive purpose. Sometimes the training goes away, however, and the morale appears to revert; I believe that this is due to either rehoming the trained unit in a base without a Children's Creche or due to upgrading the trained unit with the Design Workshop. I haven't tested out what causes the loss of training, but I have seen it happen, just without paying close enough attention to exactly what I did to cause it. I find this build trained shell - upgrade to ultimate design technique especially useful for aircraft, where you don't have monolith upgrades and where slots are at a premium. When designing the shell units, try to find the maximum amount of weapons and/or armor that can be piled on for free so as to lessen the upgrade cost.

This technique, plus due consideration for pacifist drones (a few punishment spheres and/or spare talents in aircraft manufacturing bases), can enable you to field a respectable force while still running FM/Wealth.

GeneralTacticus · February 7, 2002, 02:55

Quote:

Sometimes the training goes away, however, and the morale appears to revert

I think this is due to using the DW to upgrade the whole design and eliminate the old one, rather than upgrading 'in the field'.

Sikander · February 7, 2002, 04:03

The General is correct. You can build a trained scout infantry for 10 mins, and in a base with a CC, CC, and a Bioenhancement Center it will start as 'Elite'. You can select the unit and upgrade it ( u) to anything you want, and it will remain Elite. But, if you go into the design workshop and upgrade the trained scout infantry design to another design, all of your formerly Elite trained scout infantrymen revert to Commando morale.

vitamin j · February 7, 2002, 22:59

I just recently discovered a previously unknown (to me, anyway) benefit of the "trained" special ability. Once a trained unit is built, as long as it keeps the trained ability it's morale will not go down as a result of social engineering choices. I found this out while playing the Gaians in an SP game. I had been cranking out some trained impact choppers under knowledge SE, with creches, bioenhancement centers, and aero complexes in the producing bases. They were elite at creation. When I switched SE to wealth, they all retained their elite morale, but my other units all showed the morale decrease from running wealth. This may be well known here, but I've never seen it or heard of it before. Running wealth during wartime could be a little less painful if you dedicate an ability slot to trained. I haven't checked yet if trained units actually built under wealth have the same characteristic.

Oops - just read JDM's last post again. Guess that covers my last sentence...

Lefty Scaevola · February 9, 2002, 17:16

One other very minor morale boost. A prototype unit has a morale plus.

Adalbertus · February 9, 2002, 17:42

Quote:

When I switched SE to wealth, they all retained their elite morale

I'm not one of the "scientific" SMACX players, I've got enough science around the other 8 hours a day (if you count a day as 8 hours sleep, 8 hours work and 8 hours playing SMAC

) But I think I've noticed some "uncoherent" behaviour of SE effect on the actual morale state of units. Is it possible that Elite doesn't degrade with the SE choices while the other levels do? This might be a somewhat lazy implementation due to the programmers, because they didn't want to distinguish different Elite states. Because, following normal reasoning, if you trained unit A elite under wealth, switched to something else, trained unit B to elite, and switched to wealth again, A should be elite, B commander. Perhaps this is too difficult for poor programmers, so they left elite elite.
Another question: I never played Miriam, but for that faction, Vel mentioned in his guide something of " 'Trans-elite' troopers, giving you an extra point of movement, and a 25% attack bonus above and beyond what everybody else gets too." Does he mean an infantry unit gets 3 movement points, or is this simple normal reasoning: 2 movement points, 50% elite, and 25% Miriam gives 75% attack bonus?
edit: OK, regarding my other thread: 87% attack bonus

vitamin j · February 9, 2002, 18:58

I think Vel was just refering to the last thing you mentioned - they get the extra 25% on offense.

Blake · February 9, 2002, 22:33

Something I take great delight in mentioning is the odd effect of Children Creche's (which all CC's in this post refer to, rather than to the Command Centre), basically, a unit in a base with a CC can attack or defend with greater than 50% morale. However it has to be in the base.
The final + Morale from being in a base with a CC can push an elite units morale bonus to 62%. (normally capped at 50%)

A particular pecurility is the effect of CC's on worms under SE's with negative Morale, CC's are supposed to add morale bonuses to a unit to cancel out the negative morale from SE (thus always giving the unit positive morale). But due to imperfect code this morale bonus is given to worms too, despite the fact no morale is deducted from the worms. Thus, a gaian demon boil under Wealth+Eudo (-5 morale) can attack with a 112% morale bonus (that is, DOUBLE normal attack - this works equally well for defense).

Therfore, if you are going to use worms for base defense (against, for example, X-Gas) then pushing your morale to rock bottom and building CC's at all your bases gives monster PSI bonuses when defending or attacking from your bases, and can give even a hatchling demon boil strength.

(Technically, this feature is probably a bug, therfore exploiting it could technically be considered cheating, but seeing worms are quite weak anyway I'm willing to overlook those little technicalities)