Science City - worth it?

[Arrian]

I still try for a SSC. In order to get the full-blown one, you need a high-shield, high trade coastal city early in the game. That doesn't always happen.

If I do happen to have such a city, then sure, I'll take a shot at the Colossus early, and then the other Wonders for the SSC. Otherwise, I pick a city with good production and some trade specials and make sure I get Copernicus and Newton there.

Tech is everything in Civ - always has been - and therefore anything to increase your tech progress is valuable. One could argue that having the tech lead in Civ III is even more important than it was in Civ II or I, because you will "see" the resources first, and be able to plan accordingly.

Also, increasing your "beaker" output can actually translate into upping your income per turn. Because of the 4 turn tech cap, building up a SSC may not significantly speed your tech progress, but it will allow you to run a higher tax rate, and thus have lots of cash handy.

-Arrian

[barefootbadass]

Originally posted by planetfall
where is the advantange in have science concentrated in one city rather than spread through out the empire? Isn't there a big danger of having another civ take away all your science by taking the SC?

Also what about the 4 turn floor for tech advances? Is the game changed too much if change floor to 3 or 2 turns? It seems it might be nice to have 100 years to see the effect of longevity, at least once?

The advantage to having all science wonders in one city comes with having them both in your highest commerce city, where they are most effective, meaning low corruption and colossus and/or gems/gold/etc. This is the only advantage to doing this, aside from having a high culture city. Beaker output is directly proportional to commerce, so all your unique science improvements(wonders) are best suited to that city.

About danger of losing all of your science, the danger isn't that great, first, because it doesn't produce enough beakers to cripple you if you lose it, second because it will have high culture or you and a lot of your citizens, and be close to other high culture cities, so a defection back to you is likely, and third because you can take it back(if you can't you are probably in more trouble than losing your SSC would make you). I always keep a small mobile force around to retake cities near my borders and coasts.

I don't know about longevity, I never get to it, the space race cuts out about half of the modern tech tree anyway. Also, you will find yourself having more time in the modern era at higher difficulty levels, as the ai will have bonuses to research. I guess you could turn off the space race but that would just seem to make the modern era more boring.

[SanPellegrino]

Originally posted by planetfall
where is the advantange in have science concentrated in one city rather than spread through out the empire? Isn't there a big danger of having another civ take away all your science by taking the SC?

Also what about the 4 turn floor for tech advances? Is the game changed too much if change floor to 3 or 2 turns? It seems it might be nice to have 100 years to see the effect of longevity, at least once?

Usually my SC is my first or second city, so I would be in big trouble anyway, if I lose it.
The point in maxing out one city is simple, you use a site with good potential (starting position has usually a luxury at least, maybe river (and coast of course for colossus)), build colossus there. Now this city has maybe double the commerce of one of your other cities, and given there are no libs or something, already double the beakers, beakers are directly influenced by commerce and tax rate, you know already. Because libs, unis, copernicus and Isaac Newton's give some % on beaker production, the city with most commerce is best suited for the science wonders and lib and uni ASAP. Care for that city, let it grow soon, buy improvements there, your workers should circle around it. Science City should be first to build aquaeduct and hospital, too, to get most benefit. Every citizen in the SC is worth 4 or 5 in other cities, even in good. I build no factory in my SC to maintain max tile yield. SC can be a HUGE advantage, because it gives your civ much more economic power that it should have by its size.

IMHO the 4turn cap is pretty good, because with SC you couldn't implement the techs you discoverd in civ2 or SMAC, I got often 2 in one turn! So game was over before I build those wonders ore improvements.

[SanPellegrino]

thx barefootbadass, I overread your post and see now that you wrote a similar explanation.

And Arrian I think you're right tech lead is even more important in Civ3, e. g. you're doomed when UN falls in rivals hands.

[ShuShu]

Every one in this thread likes the space ship victory, but if the single science city is your capital, you are talking a major league 'Culture' city. Consider it an insurrance policy.

The sience buildings are the biggest tech buildings. If you put them all in the your capital, you WILL win the race to 20K culture. Sometimes the world enters technological dark ages. It is nice to know that as long as NO_ONE can build the space ship by the 1980's and you can hold on to that 1 city, you will win culture.

[SanPellegrino]

ShuShu, you're right culture accumulating is a nice side effect of the SC. But to me, the obvious benefit of the SC is that you're not soaken by those "dark ages"

[Unregistered]

Originally posted by barefootbadass
I don't know about longevity, I never get to it, the space race cuts out about half of the modern tech tree anyway. Also, you will find yourself having more time in the modern era at higher difficulty levels, as the ai will have bonuses to research. I guess you could turn off the space race but that would just seem to make the modern era more boring.

In my first learning game I did several wrong things. Like not expanding enuff at the start. I never had more than seven cities. I'd just finished building a couple of fighters and bombers when one of the ai civs - the persians, I think - launched their starship & the game ended. So for the next game, I turned off the starship option. Being well into the modern era in that game now, I would have to agree with you, without the starship, the other playing options are pretty limited. I'd like to think that Firaxis would do something to enrich the modern era playing experience, to pump up the 'fun factor', because as it is now, it's more work than play. But I'm not holding my breath.

OT, sorry. Just a comment.