Wonders Of the World

[Odin]

Here are my ideas for wonders:

Anciet:

Stonehenge: Because of its us as a calader it increases food prduction by 75%.
The Great wall of China: prevents barbarian attacks and and inceases unit Defence by 20%.
Chechen Itza: This Mayan Pyramid-like temple uses blood sacifice as a teturrent to crime.
The epic Ramayana: Inceases happiness in your empire by 2 points and reduces crime by 25%.
The Sphinx: this symbbol of Egyptian millitary power reduces millitary costs by 65%.
The Great Library of Alexandia: incrases science by 25%.

Medival:
Pholosopher's Stone: You get free embassies in every nation.
The leaning tower of Pisa: Increases prodution in empire by 15% from acitects realizing what they did wrong improves consruction methods.
Hagia Sophia: Triples efecivness of temples and cathedrals

Rennesance:
Emacipation Proclimation: All slaves in world freed, slaving nations suffer severe riots for 5 turns.
Gutenburg Printing Press: Increases science by 10% from higher literacy rates and 10% more gold from book sales.
Galilio's Telescpe: Increaces science production in the city it is bult by 1000%.
The London Stock Exchange: Privitizes all city improvements so you dont have to pay maintanice on them.
British East India Company: Gives an etra 5 gold per oversea trade route.

Modern:
Statue of Liberty: All revolting cities join your nation.
Trans-Siberian Railroad: Doubles movement points for all your land units
Panama Canal: Doubles speed of your naval vessels.
Internet: 5% chance each turn of gaining a forigien Advance.
International Space Station: Increaces all the following by 10%; gold, science, and prodution; allows all nations to buils space units.

Future:
Mission to Mars: Allows all nations to start building Space Colonies.
Atlantis Project: Allows all nations to start building underwater cities.
GaiaSat: Rids the world of pollution
Cure for aging: Increases happiness by 5 points.
ESP Center: Other nations can't start wars with you.

[Zer0_T0lerance]

quote: Originally posted by Odin on 11-12-2000 04:23 PM Internet: 5% chance each turn of gaining a forigien Advance.

NO! NO! NO! Don't make the Internet a wonder! That is so unrealistic. Make it an advance! The Internet is made up world wide interconnected networks and should not be confined to a single nation! Plus, it fits in with other good tech ideas like SSL Encryption and E-Commerce.





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Zero

[Shadowstrike]

Personally I think the Internet should boost only trade. Trade and the free flow of information is what the Internet is all about. Making it a wonder would be accurate, as there are in reality very few modern wonders. Maybe every city has to build an ISP to get the Internet bonus, and then some....

[Ralf]

I dont think it would be a good idea for Firaxis to shamelessly copy almost each and every wonder from their closest competitor; Activision.

Do you?

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What!!! Do you guys accept all of these suggestions? Perhaps 3-4 of the more neutral ones can be used, but nothing more then that. Their hands are tied:

Havent you heard about "copyright"? Why do you think they fought over the name "Civilization" all these years?

[This message has been edited by Ralf (edited November 12, 2000).]

[Zer0_T0lerance]

quote: Originally posted by Shadowstrike on 11-12-2000 04:39 PM Personally I think the Internet should boost only trade. Trade and the free flow of information is what the Internet is all about. Making it a wonder would be accurate, as there are in reality very few modern wonders. Maybe every city has to build an ISP to get the Internet bonus, and then some....

Remember, in the real world, the Internet was not first used for commercial revenue. Instead it was used as way of exchanging information by means of researching, chatting and sending/receiving e-mail, which naturally makes it a science boost. It was also used for people to make their own personal webpages, which means it could also be used as a luxury. When E-Commerce came on the scene, then the Internet was used for trade.

INTERNET. Large, international computer network linking tens of millions of users around the world. It is used daily by many individuals for the main purposes of sending and receiving electronic mail (e-mail), obtaining mountains of information on almost any subject, or to communicate with coworkers on projects. Access to the Internet is obtained only by subscription, and an Internet address is needed to receive a message or to send a message to another Internet user. Such addresses have a specific format that specifies the name of the user, the machine they are working on, and where that machine is located.
The Internet began as a network of computers, the Advanced Research Projects Agency Network, or ARPANET, supported by the U.S. Defense Department. In the 1980s, the National Science Foundation (NSF) supplied funding to extend the network to connect research-based supercomputers at various sites across the U.S. By the end of the decade, the Internet had extended to connect countries from around the world. By the early 1990s the Internet had encompassed all research universities, four-year colleges, federal agencies and laboratories, and computer vendors. At the close of the 1990s, lower personal computer prices and the ready availability of numerous online services encouraged increased personal and home connections to the Internet, particularly via the World Wide Web, an application that gathers resources from the Internet into a series of menu pages, or screens. The advent of the World Wide Web, with its relative ease of use, is undoubtedly one reason for the explosion of home computer use experienced at the close of the twentieth century.
Although no single authority governs the use of the Internet, users voluntarily adhere to a telecommunications protocol. Because there is no governing body, however, controversy sometimes arises as to issues of privacy and what information may or may not be allowed into the network. In 1996, a new law designed to regulate indecent material on the global Internet computer network was declared an unconstitutional violation of the First Amendment guarantee of free speech by a panel of three U.S. Federal judges. The legislation, known as the Computer Decency Act, had been approved as part of the broad Telecommunications Act of 1996 that won Congressional approval and was signed into law by President Bill Clinton in February. The law's supporters said it was designed to stop the dissemination of pornography and other unsuitable material over the Internet network, which was used by tens of millions of adults and children around the world. Under the legislation, the distribution of "indecent" material over the Internet was punishable by a $250,000 fine and up to two years in prison. The decision was the first judicial ruling that Internet materials should be extended the same protection from censorship as printed materials.

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From Compton's Interactive Encyclopedia Deluxe © 1998 The Learning Company, Inc.

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Zero
[This message has been edited by Zero_Tolerance (edited November 12, 2000).]

[airdrik]

Idea: the Internet tech advance gives your civ a 5% science boost (te every civ that gains it, when it gains it) as well as allowing you to build the Internet city improvement which improves trade by 25% cummulative w/ all other trade boosting improvements.

[Zer0_T0lerance]

quote: Originally posted by airdrik on 11-12-2000 11:47 PM Idea: the Internet tech advance gives your civ a 5% science boost (te every civ that gains it, when it gains it) as well as allowing you to build the Internet city improvement which improves trade by 25% cummulative w/ all other trade boosting improvements.

Great idea, airdrik! But to be realistic, I like to add one more thing. The Internet tech advance should also allow your science boost to continue to grow over time until it reaches 100%, effectively doubling your science rate. You see, the Internet started out small (it had only about 60 networks in 1993--today there are millions and millions!), but then it grew and grew and grew and grew some more and it's still growing! This idea reflects this growth.

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Zero

[Builder]

bad ideas.
bad ideas.
bad ideas.

this is my short opinion.

sorry Odin...

[airdrik]

If that were so, then it could grow by every city that builds the Internet city imporvement adds a 5% bonus to the science for the entire civ as well as the 25% bonus to trade (which also indirectly boosts science). But since trade indirectly boosts science, anyway, then that is hardly necessary.
[This message has been edited by airdrik (edited November 13, 2000).]

[Truman]

I don't see why they wouldn't go with some of the Wonders from Civ and Civ2, like the Hanging Gardens, The Manhattan Project, the United Nations, etc.

Some alternative Wonders could be:

Ancient
The Acropolis -- +3 to Happiness in host city, +2 happiness in all other cities of host Civ.
The Maui(sp?) (Those statues on Easter island) -- Boosts relations with other Civs.

Medieval
Camelot -- Creates 3 Knight units in each city.

Renaissance
The palace of Versailles -- Establishes embassies on all other Civs.
The Louvre -- (insert cultural bonus here.)

Modern
International Space Station -- Host nation and all allies receive bonuses to happiness and economy.
Hubble Space Telescope -- +25% science.
COSTAR Mission -- +25% science, or +50% science if host nation also controls Hubble Space Telescope.

Future
Atlantis Project -- Raises a small, fertile island with a new city controlled by host Civ.
Time Machine -- Host Civ discovers one new tech of player's choice.
Hawking Project -- Civ gains the ability to build Singularity Bombs (i.e, futuristic, nonpolluting nukes)
FTL Engine -- +50% science due to ships exploring other star systems.

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"Let me know the instant we have nukes!" ~Harry S. Truman

[Ribannah]

Stonehenge generates +1 food, arrow and shield in every city (+3 in the capital)

Grand Canal reduces canal building time by 50%

Camelot mounted units need no support

Dutch East Indies Company increases trade bonusses by 50% (until The Corporation)

Trans Siberian Railroad reduces railroad building time by 50%

Internet counts as a Research Lab in every city, and increases rate of success for diplomats and spies for all civs

Gaia Charter all non-solar power plants in the world are dismantled, population growth is halted in each city without a Mass Transit

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If you have no feet, don't walk on fire

[Ridock The Savage]

hmm Odin...are these your ideas...cause they sound awfully familiar to those in CtP...

[Biddles]

quote: Originally posted by Truman on 11-13-2000 05:37 PM Medieval Camelot -- Creates 3 Knight units in each city.

No offence, but have you played civ before? (sorry for the sarcasm) 3 free knights in every city. This would way unbalance the game. Usually by medieval I have 10+ cities this means over 30 knight units. An army like that would crush anything in it's path.

Ribannah's idea sounds a bit more gamefitting.

The other idea's (esp. hubble) sound good though (esp. since the hubbles ST has incredibly boosted our knowledge of the universe)


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- Biddles

"Now that our life-support systems are utilising the new Windows 2027 OS, we don't have to worry about anythi......."
Mars Colonizer Mission

[Drakenred]

Here are my ideas for wonders:

Anciet:

Stonehenge: Because of its us as a calader it increases food prduction by 75%.

If it was used as a calender, thier is still a lot of debate on that, Besides, you can always use other monuments with actualy were Calenders for the same thing, But 75% is way too high


The Great wall of China: prevents barbarian attacks and and inceases unit Defence by 20%.

ive always had a problem with the Great wall Being a "City" wonder


Chechen Itza: This Mayan Pyramid-like temple uses blood sacifice as a teturrent to crime.

Again their is no direct evidence that it was used as a Crime deterent,

The epic Ramayana: Inceases happiness in your empire by 2 points and reduces crime by 25%.

you could use any of the Epics for the "happiness" bonus, but the Crime reduction is doubtfull

The Sphinx: this symbbol of Egyptian millitary power reduces millitary costs by 65%.

while it is a great monument, i tend to prefer more realistic "Wonder" efects. Besides the Spinx is not realy as impresive a feat as the Piramids


The Great Library of Alexandia: incrases science by 25%.

i prefer the Library to give you the ability to keep up Tec wise if your behind the curve, otherwise the person in the lead will just grab it to keep their Science pumped up. however even then, the smart thing for the person in the lead is to build it anyway, or obsolete it asap.

Medival:
Pholosopher's Stone: You get free embassies in every nation.

why do we need 2 marco-polo embasys in the game at roughly the same time?

The leaning tower of Pisa: Increases prodution in empire by 15% from acitects realizing what they did wrong improves consruction methods.

their was nothing wrong with the design itself, especialy compred to simuilar round tower designs of the period) the problem was with puting the thing in (esentualy) Mud


Hagia Sophia: Triples efecivness of temples and cathedrals

Orical does that one already

Rennesance:
Emacipation Proclimation: All slaves in world freed, slaving nations suffer severe riots for 5 turns.

in the real world, slavery was ended one country at a time, and was reintorduced during WWII in Nazi Concentration camps(and unfortunalty Slavery still exists to a limmited degree even today)
IF they modle Slavery, then it would probably make mopre sence to have the option of a civ to End slavery.

Gutenburg Printing Press: Increases science by 10% from higher literacy rates and 10% more gold from book sales.


Galilio's Telescpe: Increaces science production in the city it is bult by 1000%.

that is WAY to steep.

The London Stock Exchange: Privitizes all city improvements so you dont have to pay maintanice on them.

Adam smith Trading company has a simular efect.


British East India Company: Gives an etra 5 gold per oversea trade route.

that seems a bit high.

Modern:
Statue of Liberty: All revolting cities join your nation.

Last time i checked, we did not add any New Teritories to the US.


Trans-Siberian Railroad: Doubles movement points for all your land units

ok im confused, 2* infinity on the same continent is what?

Panama Canal: Doubles speed of your naval vessels.

nope, that is way to big an edge to give to your oponent

Internet: 5% chance each turn of gaining a forigien Advance.

the problem with "Gaine a Foreign Advance" wonders, is that the player who is ahead in the game will want to build it to keep it out of the hands of others who are behind.

International Space Station: Increaces all the following by 10%; gold, science, and prodution; allows all nations to buils space units.

ok First we are asuming that Sid will loose his mind and abruptly start adding a "Space laevel" to CIV 3

Future:
Mission to Mars: Allows all nations to start building Space Colonies.

same as above.
although i think it would make a bit more realistic "Near future" project than the existing "Mission to Alpha Centari"

Atlantis Project: Allows all nations to start building underwater cities.

the BIG problem with the last three is that theis fall under the cataory of "Let the other Sucker Build it so we can reap the benifits"

GaiaSat: Rids the world of pollution

Dito

Cure for aging: Increases happiness by 5 points.

Civ already has "Cure for Cancer" wonder

ESP Center: Other nations can't start wars with you.

somehow i think that the real world efect of having an ESP center is that other powere WILL go after you.

[Zer0_T0lerance]

quote: Originally posted by airdrik on 11-12-2000 11:47 PM . . .as well as allowing you to build the Internet city Improvement. . .

What exactly do you mean by Internet city improvement, airdrik? What exactly is this suppose to realistically represent?

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Zero

[airdrik]

I didn't origonally have anything in mind, though it could be something like a local service provider, or just a connection to the internet for that city. Somehow the internet has to reach that city, it didn't just Boom and every city in a civ that gets the internet advance automatically has internet capabilities.
The Internet city improvement should probably be something cheap, though, because all you would need to do is convert the already existing phone lines so that they support the internet (maybe there could be an advance of The Phone which precedes the Internet, and the Telegraph before that)

[DarkCloud]

Zero- It should be a wonder and here is how:

for host civ +10% trade (USA) (yes I know Arpanet was usa, the Internet was in greece or somewhere else in europe.)
for other civs +5% trade


Improvement- NO! If a city has telephones, it has the internet; (maybe not for everyone, but for those in power)

[Dauphin]

quote: yes I know Arpanet was usa, the Internet was in greece or somewhere else in europe.

Arpanet was a forerunner of the internet and it was the world wide web that was designed in Europe (at CERN to be specific). The web is an extension to the internet allowing more than just text based e-mails to be sent over networks

[Zer0_T0lerance]

quote: Originally posted by Drakenred on 11-15-2000 11:32 AM Internet: 5% chance each turn of gaining a forigien Advance. the problem with "Gaine a Foreign Advance" wonders, is that the player who is ahead in the game will want to build it to keep it out of the hands of others who are behind.

GOSH DARNIT! How many times do I have to say, "DON'T MAKE THE INTERNET A WONDER!!!" This is highly unrealistic as the Internet is NOT governed by a single authority. It is made up of world wide interconnected networks; each of these networks are owned by different people, organizations, etc. And it leaves open the possibility of other techs such as Encryption, E-Commerce, and Advanced Telecommunications, all that which take advantage of the Internet.


I just sure hope that Sid doesn't lose his mind and make the Internet a wonder.

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Zero
[This message has been edited by Zero_Tolerance (edited November 15, 2000).]

[DarkCloud]

ARPANET was the direct ancestor of the internet, but an European made the 'internet' accessable to the world populace for free.

[Shogun Gunner]

Let's be honest, what is the Internet to most people anyway?

1. A faster newspaper.

2. A different, slower, more convenient way to buy things.

3. A different, faster way to communicate with friends/family.

TRADE
How does the Internet improve trade? The "faster newspaper" just shifts readers from traditional news sources to new news sources. That might be a wash -- no net gain. The same for buying things. Instead of going to local grocery store, go to Peapod.com...what's the increase in trade? People still eat the same amount of food. On number 3, the US Post Office losses out to AOL. Where's the trade increase here? Postage down, ISP membership fees up.

SCIENCE
As for as improving science research, isn't it really computers that drive cutting edge research. I don't think leading scientist are achieving their breakthroughs on AOL chat!

HAPPINESS
If anything the Internet should lead to 50% higher happiness. All the dudes of your civ get their porn faster and cheaper. Then again, that might be counteracted by the other 50% being pissed at their boyfriends/husbands!

[Zer0_T0lerance]

quote: Originally posted by Shogun Gunner on 11-18-2000 09:44 PM SCIENCE As for as improving science research, isn't it really computers that drive cutting edge research. I don't think leading scientist are achieving their breakthroughs on AOL chat!

Actually, no, but I'm sure scientists get information through research on the Internet, and communicate through e-mail and chat(not necessarily AOL chat). Researching the Internet makes information easier to access, while e-mail and chat allows scientists to communicate more conveniently and freely. But not only is the Internet useful to scientists, it is an educational benefit for all.

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Zero
[This message has been edited by Zero_Tolerance (edited November 18, 2000).]

[Shogun Gunner]

Yes, scientist can communicate faster with each other, but I still reject that as being signicant. Most scientists are located together in facilities. National Institutes of Health in Bethesda, Maryland for example.

When scientist are not located together, why wouldn't the fax machine and/or phone provide the same increase of information sharing? If you just had to send pictures before the Internet existed, it would get from one scientist to another within two or three days.

Zero, I agree. Obviously, the Internet does increase the speed of volume of communication. This does improve any effort that can take advantage of the medium. However, I don't think it should be overstated.

[Zer0_T0lerance]

quote: Yes, scientist can communicate faster with each other, but I still reject that as being signicant. Most scientists are located together in facilities. National Institutes of Health in Bethesda, Maryland for example. When scientist are not located together, why wouldn't the fax machine and/or phone provide the same increase of information sharing? If you just had to send pictures before the Internet existed, it would get from one scientist to another within two or three days.

Well, it's simple. The fax machine and phone can add up long-distance charges, as well as sending postal mail. It costs money, and scientists have to spend money on their research and projects. With the Internet, however, research is free and projects are not set back by additional unnecessary costs. It's cheaper to do business via the Internet and therefore that is what should have an impact on the science rate.

quote: Zero, I agree. Obviously, the Internet does increase the speed of volume of communication. This does improve any effort that can take advantage of the medium. However, I don't think it should be overstated.

Of course it shouldn't be overstated! And the Internet still has a ton of room for growth! That's why the Internet should impact the science rate only gradually as it grows and grows and grows and grows some more and keeps on growing. Though, it should probably stop at a 100% increase, effectively doubling the science rate, otherwise it effects may be too drastic on gameplay.

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Zero
[This message has been edited by Zero_Tolerance (edited November 19, 2000).]

[Dauphin]

quote: When scientist are not located together, why wouldn't the fax machine and/or phone provide the same increase of information sharing?

If you have a website you don't have to send anything, be it faxes or phone calls or even e-mails, and you reach a much wider audience. One website covers millions, a single fax only one workgroup. It quickens cross-references aswell. Give an address and you can have the required publication in seconds rather than days.
[This message has been edited by Big Crunch (edited November 19, 2000).]

[Harlequin]

quote: Originally posted by Zero_Tolerance on 11-12-2000 04:37 PM NO! NO! NO! Don't make the Internet a wonder! That is so unrealistic. Make it an advance! The Internet is made up world wide interconnected networks and should not be confined to a single nation! Plus, it fits in with other good tech ideas like SSL Encryption and E-Commerce.

Acually the US does control the internet. Even tho our friends across the pond refuse to accept it. If we cut them off from our backbone, the internet would cease to exist as they know it. jfyi

Harle

[Zer0_T0lerance]

quote: Originally posted by Harlequin on 11-19-2000 01:31 PM Acually the US does control the internet. Even tho our friends across the pond refuse to accept it. If we cut them off from our backbone, the internet would cease to exist as they know it. jfyi Harle

Nope! Wrong again. Check out these
Internet Backbone Maps. . .

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Zero

[paulmagusnet]

Most things built by Man have unintended consiquences. It may be nice to have some random effects associated with 'Wonder' construction, including nothing.

Many 'Wonders' of the modern age are not wonders at all to the extent that they can be duplicated and used by most other civilizations.

The often abused example of the internet for one.

Statue of liberty is unique because it means something, you could build an identical statue in mongolia without that same effect. (The statue could cause immigration from unhappy cities to your civilization).

Before deciding on specific wonders, it is necessary to have some guiding principal as to what makes a wonder effective and usable only by the Civ that posseses it.

Perhaps also a 'Sub-Wonder' catagory is necessary, for big expensive things you only need one of in a civilization.

By the way, is this a Civ ToT, Civ CTP or new weird Civ post???