A quick CivIII bit to put your minds at ease

[Maccabee2]

An ottoman-sized, hunter green pile of something in the corner of the forum room stirs, and rears up to its full amazing height of ....four feet! As it moves with stumpy but humanoid steps, you realize "it" is clothed in a travel cloak. Hands emerge from previously unrecognizable sleeves as they seek its pockets, pull out a clay pipe, pack it with some pungent pipe weed, and light it. The stem of the pipe disappears into the shadowed hole under the cloak's hood, and you see bright eyes light with pleasure as it draws on the pipe. The face becomes a little more discernible in the hood's shadow when you see the flash of a smile and hear, "We might as well relax. It looks as if we are in for a wee bit of a wait." The curious little figure pauses, then muses, "I grew weary of waiting over at the "other" tavern. They boasted of how wonderful would be their ale when it's done curing, but now they seem to be trying to lower expectations. That's never a good sign. Better not to crow too loudly at first, if the sun's not up yet."

[Biddles]

quote: Originally posted by yin26 on 10-29-2000 04:10 AM I agree with their thinking to a certain degree. It's like being told all the good parts of a movie before you go see it.

But I don't want to go into the movie expecting an action movie and the movie turns out to be a drama movie.

That is unless it is a really, really good drama.



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- Biddles

"Now that our life-support systems are utilising the new Windows 2027 OS, we don't have to worry about anythi......."
Mars Colonizer Mission

[yin26]

Yeah, I am with you, actually. It used to be that I simply didn't have the money to waste on games that failed to deliver. So I'd wait a few weeks (at least) after the release, read people's feedback (ignoring the paid reviewers for the most part), and only then buy it if the game matched my expectations. I still buy games a year "late" at 1/2 price and with all the patches ready as a result of that habit.

But far more important for me now is time. I can buy any game I want these days, but I really only have time to get into one at a time. So I basically do the same thing: Wait and see.

Despite however much work has gone into the lists, and despite whatever hype eventually surfaces about CIv 3, I won't buy it for at least a month after its release. I'll be here eagerly reading people's feedback, asking questions, and looking for the first talk of what kinds of patches will be needed.

So for all it matters to me, the Civ 3 team can stay quiet or not. I'm waiting for the game to speak for itself at this point...

[Crustacian]

Bumping this back up.
Dan, you accomplish your goal of putting our minds at ease did you? But you have a question to answer if you look up above here.
I just hope Civ3 is a sincere effort to give us a more bug-free game with the improovements we have posted that we want within reason. And not some half baked marketing sceme in cahoots with the CTP.

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The journey itself is the thing~Odysseus

[Stefu]

STOP BUMPING THIS THREAD!

Geeze golly! You come to this forum, see thread whose sender has that big shiny FIRAXIS after his name, and naturally assume there's more information! IT doesn't take much more to drive one mad!

[N35t0r]

look what i found in the FAQ:

quote: For example Brian Reynolds has a "Civilization III Designer" status.

[Dan Magaha FIRAXIS]

That's not in *our* FAQ, maybe you're looking at an unofficial FAQ or you have a very, *very* old copy of the official FAQ cached in your browser =)

For everyone anxiously awaiting something new on the website, all I can say is: please have patience... development is in high gear and a lot of things are going on right now. We know you are hungry for news and info and game updates and everything else, and we want to give that to you -- we will give that to you, we're just working on nailing down some things first.

Dan
Firaxis Games

dont worry Dan, the reference is for our forum faq.... http://apolyton.net/forums/apolytonfaq.shtml

[Tical_2000]

Oh God! I guess this means we'll be waiting a little longer than we had hoped. Oh well, I'm sure Firaxis is pounding out a solid game which gives them valid reason for the lack of game info. After all, I just know Civ3 will beat the life out of CTP2!

[airdrik]

Of course it's going to be better, it's the second of the two, which means that it will have (just about) everything good about CTP2 plus everything that can be implemented between now and it's release .
So here's hopen'

[N35t0r]

ANY chance of the game being played on a P133 with 20 MB RAM?

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Dear earthlings, dont panic.
Occupation will be painless.
There is no way to avoid it.

[FinnishGuy]

Methinks too that Firaxis has been waiting for CTP2's release to see first what they've got...
[This message has been edited by FinnishGuy (edited November 15, 2000).]

[Ubersandwich]

Excellent... This looks promising. And, RE: Ctp2 vs CivIII, it seems the folks at Activision took a left turn (that's a good thing, i feel) when designing the Ctp series, it will be interesting to see if Firaxis implements some of the changes, or gains inspiration from the fresh view of TBS empire building. If they don't, however, CivIII should still be a solid game (duh)
[This message has been edited by Ubersandwich (edited November 15, 2000).]

[Yoleus]

The FAQ is still "alive and well"...

[FinnishGuy]

Now now, they have to play some CTP2 first...

[N35t0r]

and that would mean buying from their rivals

[UltraSonix]

quote: Methinks too that Firaxis has been waiting for CTP2's release to see first what they've got...

It would be stupid of them to doing anything but.

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No, in Australia we don't live with kangaroos and koalas in our backyards... Despite any stupid advertisments you may see to the contrary... (And no, koalas don't usually speak!)

quote: Originally posted by HsFB on 11-16-2000 03:32 PM and that would mean buying from their rivals

something in ctp2 tells me that activisioners bought smac as well...


btw, if you were there or read the transcript of our ctp2 chat, the developers visited the civ3 forum beyond the ctp2 ones...
here is a nice quote from Dave White, Lead Designer of CTP2

quote: I have a 300 page doc from Apolyton with tons of comments and suggestions

[This message has been edited by MarkG (edited November 17, 2000).]

[Crustacian]

quote: Originally posted by Stefu on 11-14-2000 08:47 AM STOP BUMPING THIS THREAD! Geeze golly! You come to this forum, see thread whose sender has that big shiny FIRAXIS after his name, and naturally assume there's more information! IT doesn't take much more to drive one mad!

Well Stefu, Mr Dan posted it in the first place, got some of our anticipation stirred up (ok, we LET our anticipation get stirred up )

So get over it!

Bumps will happen here cuz it is a natural reaction when very little is offered afterwards.

**Thx Dan M for your comments, patience is not as hard when it is evident something will take a while.
***However you have still not answered the question above:
It says:"How many people are now working at FIRAXIS?
WE now have 27 people working here. We've added a lot of talented people to the group recently, so that we can have two complete design teams working on our big projects - Civilization III and the dinosaur game."

*This quote is from the http://www.firaxis.com/civ3/ site.

Yet, I count 25 people in the picture you say are on the Civ 3 team. The quote above says there are 27 working ALTOGETHER at Firaxis. That leaves 2 left over for the other projects is my guess.

So, again, which number is correct?


Tical_2000
Oct 2000 posted November 14, 2000 22:01
"I'm sure Firaxis is pounding out a solid game which gives them valid reason for the lack of game info. After all, I just know Civ3 will beat the life out of CTP2!"

I agree Civ 3 will most likely be much better than CTP2!!
I just want to establish which one is more suited to me without buying them both, then try to play it well for fun.

In one little local town/village near here there are 3 resterants! One does not do breakfasts and specialises in dinners. One is very "local culture" community meeting place type thing. The third is more towards the turist visitors near an attraction closeby.

If Hasbro & Activision were resterants in the same little village of Civilization enthusiasts, it would be like being talked into spending maoney on having breakfast at the Pot Belly Cafe, then running over to the other place, sitting down and paying for another breakfast!

Now if it was known what all each one would be about and when they would be released, naturally those inclined toward CTP "Activisioners" would be happy, and Civ3 folk would be happy, and those who want both would be happy.

But if you can keep everything ambiguous long enough, strategicaly you can work it so many will buy BOTH.

I allready bought CTP once and was dissapointed. I am not at all knocking the game and it had a few great concepts Civ2 does not have. I simply prefer Civ2 over CTP.

I am sure Civ3 will be the game for me,
but the pull to go ahead and buy CTP2 (and again shelf it after Civ3 comes out most likely if I do) is THERE!!

And my problem with things is when we, as often happens, but hopefully not in this case, get yanked around for the SALES ASPECT of games.

1)The seeming discrepancy in numbers on the team, and unjustifyable vaqueness combined with just the right amount of "yeah its commin and gonna be GREAT/SOON hype" makes me curious.
2)Makes me also want to TUNE OUT whatever they say till we get realy near and some consistant info starts coming out.


Anyway when it is all said and done, I realize that they are in the buisness of making money and am prepared to live with it. But if that is the case it ticks me off just the same and I am glad to voice that.

A famous German producer once said something to the effect that " some movies or stories are made for and to tell the story itself. Some are made to make a living"

Is Civ3 going to blow us all away because it was made to be all it can be for us? Or is it going to be made for the making of money? Time will tell. Either way it will appeal to me more than CTP2 I am sure.



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The journey itself is the thing~Odysseus

[Dan Magaha FIRAXIS]

quote: Originally posted by Crustacian on 11-17-2000 02:25 PM ***However you have still not answered the question above: It says:"How many people are now working at FIRAXIS? WE now have 27 people working here. We've added a lot of talented people to the group recently, so that we can have two complete design teams working on our big projects - Civilization III and the dinosaur game." *This quote is from the http://www.firaxis.com/civ3/ site. Yet, I count 25 people in the picture you say are on the Civ 3 team. The quote above says there are 27 working ALTOGETHER at Firaxis. That leaves 2 left over for the other projects is my guess. So, again, which number is correct?

I must have missed that question. One of the "missing people" was Dave Evans, our Director of Software development, who was out that day, and the other was probably whoever was holding the camera, though it escapes me who that was.

quote: I am sure Civ3 will be the game for me, but the pull to go ahead and buy CTP2 (and again shelf it after Civ3 comes out most likely if I do) is THERE!! And my problem with things is when we, as often happens, but hopefully not in this case, get yanked around for the SALES ASPECT of games. 1)The seeming discrepancy in numbers on the team, and unjustifyable vaqueness combined with just the right amount of "yeah its commin and gonna be GREAT/SOON hype" makes me curious. 2)Makes me also want to TUNE OUT whatever they say till we get realy near and some consistant info starts coming out.

Well, the hard reality of the situation is that we are still far away from being 100% geared up to talk about the marketing & promotion of this game. We want to tell you all about the game and what it's going to be like and so on, but we also want ensure that what we say accurately portrays the product as it will eventually ship. Several things are still being worked out right now, and we do not want to jump the gun with bad information.

quote: Anyway when it is all said and done, I realize that they are in the buisness of making money and am prepared to live with it. But if that is the case it ticks me off just the same and I am glad to voice that. A famous German producer once said something to the effect that " some movies or stories are made for and to tell the story itself. Some are made to make a living"

Well, this is right and wrong at the same time. Obviously as a company, we exist to make money, not to solve the all the world's ills. However, that doesn't mean that we think that making the best products precludes profitability. Firaxis has done pretty well for itself in the time it's been around, and it's no coincidence that we also make great games. I can tell you that the Civ team's goal for this product since day one has been to make it the absolute *best* Civ game ever. We take a great deal of pride in this game, and I personally hope that all of you will, too.

Dan
Firaxis Games, Inc.

[UltraSonix]

It's a special skill of Firaxis' that they wait until we're just about to explode with frustration, when diffuse the situation with a sweetly timed post.

The cycle continues... time to get frustrated again!

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No, in Australia we don't live with kangaroos and koalas in our backyards... Despite any stupid advertisments you may see to the contrary... (And no, koalas don't usually speak!)

[Shadowstrike]

*gets hyper time accelerator*

OK, can we get more info on Civ3?

*growls menacingly*



This is a joke.

Anyhow, UltraSonix has a good point. Firaxis's relase of more information occurs only when Civil Disorder appears on Apolyton.

[Patriqvium]

I made some calculations. If everything goes the same way as it went with SMAC, we'll have the first beta screens and some information about the game mechanics in February 2001 and a promised release date in August 2001. The final game will come out in February 2002.

[Adm.Naismith]

Hmmm, needs for fresh cash sound a relevant argument against a 2002 release, for me.

A Christmas 2000 Dino would save the boat until then, but we have a very big sign about works on Dino almost stopped.

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Admiral Naismith AKA mcostant

[Yoleus]

Quick money could be actually the gear... but there has been a drain in people working on Civ3 (Brian&c) and there is Dino... it is economically desiderable for Firaxis to keep the tension as high as possible (continuous highlights), so don't get too excited.
You know, the only thing really "alive and well" is the most hated (and probably visited ) FAQ ever...
Do I need to mention which one? :P
Probably the best way to make them work more intensely is to finally start ignore them. You know, having a lot of people drooling over your work can make yu a little of a "primadonna", and besides why don't you have a look (and an honest review) of CTPII? Even if it has some bugs and flaws (in my opinion the tech chart is opinable) it does not seem that bad...

P.S.: I don't work for Activision and I bought and really liked Alpha Centauri (I bought also the expansion)

[Mike the Nuke]

Just make CIV3 better. CIV2 was great. WE play CIV2 TOT so we have the Hot Seat mode available. Unfortunately the 'extended game' is not available in the Hot Seat mode.

One BIG thing....KEEP HOT SEAT AVAILABLE FOR CIV3. I will not purchase CTP-II because they left it out. CIV2 played well in HotSeat mode, make it work in CIV3.

Larger maps, more units, variety, more Civilization names, better balancing of units. Better unit stacking capabilities (not losing all units in a stack just because one unit in the stack wa lost). Just some items for improvement. Also, keep the unit data listing the same (or similar), such that they can be easily modified or added to by anybody, unlike CTP.

Now back to our CIV2 (TOT) Hot Seat game.

[Mike the Nuke]

Give options to colonize other planets in the game (Hot Seat mode and regular modes) and colonize the seas (sea colonies). Allow us to move our empires to the sea and/or space (planets). Yes..it will mean mulitiple maps in the game. That's why you make them options, so players can select whether or not to include those options in their game(s).

Can't wait to see what you will be coming out with. CTP II was/is a major disappointment...no Hot Seat or PBEM. Too tough for them to program for those options and meet 'bean counter' dead lines.

Please do not stop supporting you older games

CIV2 and TOT

Many of us still play them.

Now I need to get back to the CIV2 Hot Seat game I'm in.

thanks

[Crustacian]

{/quote]I can tell you that the Civ team's goal for this product since day one has been to make it the absolute *best* Civ game ever. We take a great deal of pride in this game, and I personally hope that all of you will, too.
Dan
Firaxis Games, Inc.[/quote]

That is what we expect, thx for the reply
So there are 27 people working on civ3 then. You will need em all for sure!

[Mike the Nuke]

Good. Hope the game has the Hot
seat option. We play Civ games at my house (CTP-I and Civ2 Tot) as a group all the time in the Hot Seat mode. We incorporate a couple of AI's in our game for some added interest and to create some randomness. CTP-2 (the long awaited, by us) turned out to be a major disappointment, NO HOT SEAT. Without it, we will never buy it!

Back to our ongoing Civ2 Tot game.

[Dan Magaha FIRAXIS]

quote: Originally posted by Mike the Nuke on 11-22-2000 11:08 PM Good. Hope the game has the Hot seat option. We play Civ games at my house (CTP-I and Civ2 Tot) as a group all the time in the Hot Seat mode. We incorporate a couple of AI's in our game for some added interest and to create some randomness. CTP-2 (the long awaited, by us) turned out to be a major disappointment, NO HOT SEAT. Without it, we will never buy it! Back to our ongoing Civ2 Tot game.

So are you trying to say you want Hot Seat? =)


Dan Magaha
Firaxis Games, Inc.