why is this game so complicated!

janus · February 8, 2002, 20:22

hey im new to this forum, and actually the hole civ seen. as ive never played any of the civ games i tried the tutorials. after i found no help or teaching there i came here. i can make cities and build stuff and manage them but i dont know much more, also could someone give me some begginer stratedgies?

by the way great forum

The Andy-Man · February 8, 2002, 20:24

build cities, make stuff and managethem? that about it isnt it......

janus · February 8, 2002, 20:32

thats alot of help, thanks.

The Andy-Man · February 8, 2002, 20:38

sorry. basicaly, that is about it. anything else is indepth and is really something you pickup.

maybe the stragtegy forum will help you out.

Ming · February 8, 2002, 20:40

For a more "complete" answer, you can check out the Civ III Strategy forum...

http://apolyton.net/forums/forumdisp...136&daysprune=

Check the older threads there too... The default is set for only viewing threads from the last 10 days... so you will have to change that to see many of the better strategy threads.

Good luck...
And keep on civin'

janus · February 8, 2002, 20:41

thanks, could you answer me two questions, can you start at the middle/industrial/middle ages and how exactly do you win by the space race option?

Ironikinit · February 8, 2002, 20:47

Don't be afraid to trade with the AI civs, even if it seems like a rip-off. Eventually the tables will turn.

Pick a civ that has good abilities, like the Babylonians. Scientific and religious are pretty good. Or, you can go for one that has a good unique unit, such as the Aztecs or Japanese.

Don't irrigate grassland unless you're looking down the road. Under your starting despotic government you won't get anything for irrigating grassland.

It's cheating to some, but I'll restart the game until I get a city site I like. I look for hills, grassland, maybe a bonus or two, and a river. It shouldn't take many restarts to get a good one. You want to settle immediately.

Expand as fast as you can. A strong core of cities is your main strength. However, you should expand beyond your core to get the resources you have found in your exploration.

Experiment with different size maps with varied options. Personally, I like playing on continents on standard size maps.

Good luck.

Edit: No, you can only start at 4000 BC that I know of. You win the space race by building the ten components of the space ship and launching it before a rival launches theirs. Each component requires a technology and has resource requirements, too.

janus · February 9, 2002, 09:02

whats the deal with sheilds and food and all that? and what are the resorces you can trade? what are they and how do i trade them?

one last thing how do i stop crowding?

DrFell · February 9, 2002, 10:21

Quote:

Originally posted by janus
whats the deal with sheilds and food and all that? and what are the resorces you can trade? what are they and how do i trade them?

one last thing how do i stop crowding?

Shields are a measure of how fast you can build things. If you look in the civilopaedia, you will see that every item you build has a 'shields cost'. Now if you look at terrain, you will see certain types produce different amounts of shields for example, forest produces 2 shields per turn if you work it. Food is what makes your population increase. If you go onto the city screen you will see a food box, when that fills up your population increases by 1.

To stop crowding you need to build temples/colloseums/cathedrals, turn workers into entertainers, if under despotism/monarchy/communism you can keep military units in the city. And under republic/democracy you can use the luxuries slider bar to set luxuries (you can do it under other governments but it's not worth it), or use luxury resources (always worth it). Luxury and Strategic resources can be found in the civilopaedia, along with a description of each one. To trade them you need a road from your capital to your opponents. Go to diplomacy screen and there should be an option to trade them.

MonsterMan · February 9, 2002, 10:24

Not that I want to offend anyone, but Civ is the thinking man's game, and as such it is certainly not too complicated. Rather the other way around, I miss some of the depth of Civ II.

DrFell · February 9, 2002, 10:54

Quote:

Originally posted by MonsterMan
Not that I want to offend anyone, but Civ is the thinking man's game, and as such it is certainly not too complicated. Rather the other way around, I miss some of the depth of Civ II.

I agree completely, a lot of the things in civ3 just reduce the amount of thought required - the ages system for one.

Antonin · February 9, 2002, 18:33

Early on, any beginner is going to have a hard time making progress. You can do so many things, it is often hard to decide (or understand) what to do next.

I think the Civilopoedia (sp?) is a good source of basic information for the beginner. Since it's a turn-based game, you can spend a lot of time just reviewing things that way.

The manual is pretty good, but many gamers (myself included) don't use it very much because it's more fun to get in there and play than read about playing.

Worthingtons · February 9, 2002, 19:09

All the Answers are here my Friend

apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=651781#post651781

janus · February 9, 2002, 20:24

does it make any difference on what temperature and stuff you pick?

Encomium · February 9, 2002, 22:19

So be sure you are aware that in Civ III the AI CHEATS SHAMELESSLY all the time.

Steve Clark · February 11, 2002, 12:49

I'll post this as a rhetorical answer to a real question...

"why is this game so complicated?"

It is so complicated because they took too many ideas from the fans of civ-based games, esp. from disparate sources of Civ1, Civ2, CtP, SMAC and the List and combined them into something that does not hold together very well. That's a noble idea but most, if not nearly all, of us don't have a clue as to the realities of game design. They should have stuck to their own ideas instead of listening and incorporating half-a$$ ideas from us. This also includes "complaints" we had about Civ2 which they tried hard to avoid but now we want them back in because at least they fit. In the end, take a look at the example of SimGolf. How much input or ideas did they seek when they were designing and developing the game? They came out with an addictively playable game and now are seeking improvements and changes. Civ3 should have been the vision of one person or a few people, not some jumbled colloboration with fans. IMO.

Worthingtons · February 11, 2002, 12:56

Load o Rubbish, Civ III isnt complicated in the slightest, at least not to me.

And surely giving us what WE want and asked for is Good right??? cos we're the ones who play the game yea

ACooper · February 11, 2002, 12:57

Quote:

Originally posted by Encomium
So be sure you are aware that in Civ III the AI CHEATS SHAMELESSLY all the time.

How does the AI cheat? You make these claims but never explain.

Dan Magaha FIRAXIS · February 11, 2002, 13:03

Quote:

Originally posted by Rothy
surely giving us what WE want and asked for is Good right??? cos we're the ones who play the game yea

When your target audience is as many as one million gamers or more, ranging from hardcore grognards to moms, dads, and kids, the "we" you're referring to gets a little hazy.

Dan

Evil Robot · February 11, 2002, 13:12

If you want a truly complicated Civ-based game, look no farther than SMAC. Terrain warfare, atrocities, the U.N. charter, the unit designer...

Civ 3 has moved away from that.

Steve Clark · February 11, 2002, 13:21

Dan's point has been brought up before, here as well as in forums of other games. Do you appease the hardcore grognards (hypothetically estimating at 10% of your target market) while perhaps sacrificing the 90%? Civ3 had to be a game that targets the middle ground if you want to ensure sales and enjoyment from a majority of civers, casual or not. Are we (as hardcore grognards) so self-centered that we must demand a game only be targeted to us?

Thrawn05 · February 11, 2002, 13:59

Quote:

Originally posted by janus

hey im new to this forum, and actually the hole civ seen. as ive never played any of the civ games i tried the tutorials. after i found no help or teaching there i came here. i can make cities and build stuff and manage them but i dont know much more, also could someone give me some begginer stratedgies?

by the way great forum

That's why this game is turn based, you take AS LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OONG as you like.

RickBlaine · February 11, 2002, 15:01

Good point. At the risk of sounding grumpy, getting the hang of the basics Civ III is not that hard if you RTFM (and Civlopedia) as you play. You have all the time in the world in a TBS game. I was not connected to the Internet when Civ2 came out, and had never really played a strategy game at all before (primarily RPGs and shooters/action games). I picked up the game just fine using the above method.

Dienstag · February 12, 2002, 04:36

*reads thread*

*pauses*

I must be a grognard! (and a hardcore one, at that)
.
.
.
...what on earth is a grognard exactly?

MonsterMan · February 12, 2002, 05:22

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan Magaha FIRAXIS
When your target audience is as many as one million gamers or more, ranging from hardcore grognards to moms, dads, and kids, the "we" you're referring to gets a little hazy.

Dan

That's where the wonderful concept of Options come in :o)
In a perfect world, the game would have a list of more or less complex features that the player can choose to play with or not. Wouldn't that let you include stuff without the hassle of judging if it's too complicated for the kids? To take one example, one might have the option of building both farmland and railroad as in Civ2 to get the effect Civ3 combines in railroads.

But, I understand this might make things too hard for the AI. It's a nice idea though.

notyoueither · February 12, 2002, 05:26

Quote:

Originally posted by Dienstag
I must be a grognard! (and a hardcore one, at that)
.
.
.
...what on earth is a grognard exactly?

As legend has it, Napoleon's nick name for the members of the Old Guard.

The old grumblers/complainers/drunks, or something like that.

Salve

[edit] I'm sure someone from France can correct me as to exactly what it means. Or maybe Corsica. [edit]

MattHiggs · February 12, 2002, 06:03

Civ 3 isn't complicated.

Unfortunately it'll never be a good game because of the shite combat system.

notyoueither · February 12, 2002, 06:18

OK. We can all go home now. The peanut gallery has been heard from.

Nice stash though.

Salve

DrFell · February 12, 2002, 07:05

Quote:

Originally posted by ACooper

How does the AI cheat? You make these claims but never explain.

Huge numbers of free units at the start on higher levels, ships that never sink, cheaper tech rates on higher levels, cheaper unit/building costs on higher levels, and a number of other things which would be a bit easier to spot with a cheat mode (if you say the AI doesn't cheat you've obviously never played deity). Of course on the lowest level the AI actually pays more for units and techs so the cheats go either way.

Flandrien · February 12, 2002, 07:51

Quote:

Originally posted by Steve Clark
Are we (as hardcore grognards) so self-centered that we must demand a game only be targeted to us?

What I would love is a basic, easy to understand, standard game with loads of hardcore grognard scenario's.
(If that is possible of course.)