Plague

[DarkCloud]

A random event that occurs when your city is size 10-12 and does not have a sewer system.
This event, will kill off randomly 10-50% of your city's population.

A following is from Sidgames "The List" by Pjackson-

quote: 1.Plagues Several suggestions about plagues and diseases were made. It could be useful to simulate the great plagues of history.It would make the development of you civilization seem more realistic. It would provide an additional problem of a new type to deal with, making the game even more interesting. It could pull back the leading Civ allowing the lead to change more frequently than currently happens, making games more exciting. Example Have a list of plagues that could occur. Seven would be traditional but testing would be need to see what number allowed this to play a significant part of the game without being too much. Civs would get points towards getting these by some formula dependant on city population. When one city causes it's civ to reach some threshold then plague will break out in that city. The plague will reduce the population of the city by some number, and may then spread to other cities. Once affected by a particular plague a city will not suffer further major loss from it, but can continue to transmit it. A list of the plagues each city has undergone will be needed, perhaps just a flag per plague. Only one new plague should be allowed per city each turn (or it might get a bit too deadly). There will always be some survivors, so if a city is wiped out it should be replaced by a settler unit. Each plague will only start once. When a new one starts the plague points for that civ should be set back to zero, and all civs should start working on the next one on the list. When a plague first breaks out in a city, some people will flee the city, transmitting it to nearby cities (4 or 5 squares?) the next turn. Plagues will follow trade routes to or from a city that has been affected (not just when it first breaks out). Should a unit from a city that has been affected by a plague enter or attack a city that has not, that will transmit the plague. These numbers are just to help imagine the effect. The list of plagues should be roughly in age order. Call the position of a plague in the list be the plague number. Plagues are diseases that only affect large populations, so small cities (pop 2 or less) should not contribute to developing one. A minimum population for the civ before it can start developing plagues of 500,000 seems right. Then civs can get established, but the first to grow beyond this size is likely to be the first to be affected by a plague, knocking its population back. Give one point towards developing a plague for each two points of population above the plague number of the next one due to appear. Including the plague number here will help compensate for increasing city sizes through history, and spread out the outbreaks of new plagues. The thresholds should also increase to compensate for the increasing number of cities, possibly 10 times the next plague number. Aqueducts and sewer systems should help avoid plagues, maybe by reducing number of points the city generates by one each. Early medicine should not be able to do very much about plagues. Maybe Medicine could allow the building of hospitals that reduce the death toll by one, reduce the number of plague points by one, and make one citizen content (so they are worth building even after you have had all the plagues). New technologies - Vaccination and Antibiotics should each reduce the death toll by one. With a hospital and the new medical techs, the death toll of the most serious plagues should be reduced to zero (not that no people die, but that the number of deaths is too small to be reflected in the pop numbers). A death toll of 2 is probably the minimum for a plague to be worth simulating. So each plague will have a seriousness of 2 or 3 specified in addition to its name in the list. The most serious plagues in history were I believe the influenza outbreak of 1919 (20 million dead) and the bubonic plague. So they should get the higher numbers. The list might be something like this: 1.Smallpox - 2 2.Measles - 2 3.Bubonic Plague - 3 4.Malaria - 2 5.Tuberculosis - 2 6.Influenza - 3 It would be easy to double the number, e.g. by adding Mumps, Leprosy, Cholera, Typhus, Typhoid, Syphilis and AIDS, but this might be too many. If it were done perhaps some more variety would be needed, maybe by flagging which ones are not affected by vaccination or antibiotics. Maybe Malaria could be flagged as only occurring when there is a swamp within the vicinity of the city - that would make global warming a more serious problem. Further Comments Guns, Germs and Steel by Jared Diamond and Plagues by Christopher Wills provided a lot of the inspiration for the above example.

By Janes-

quote: If you had plauges in CVIII they could contain a number of characteristics. Different disease could have rates of lethality and ease of spreading. Your cities could have a health rating of some sort representing public hygine and health infrastructure to determin deaths and rate of spread. This rating could be determined by tech advances and city improvements. Also maybe public policy such as nationized health care. Diseases could be spread through not only trade routes but through roads, rail, highways and the airport improvement. Thus when your transportation gets faster the diseases spread faster as in real life. Cities should also have immune factors for different disease so that isolated civs with few diseases are more devestated then neighboring cities that are already used to them. Also with different diseases they could get swapped back and forth. Lastly units could carry diseases and be affected by them so that explores wipe out natives or all die of "jungle fever" in new territory. All this would of course greatly increase the complexity of the new game but thats one thing I would greatly enjoy.

By KILLAH-

quote: Not that hard to simulate plagues. The part about the cities is explained in the list. Whenever any unit enters a city with plagues, they get a 50% chance of getting each plague. Maybe it could first be 100% chance for the first, 50% for the next, 25% for the next, etc. In doing this, the military unit will take 75% damage and have a 10% chance of total death for each plague it gets. If your unit survives the plagues, they can spread it to other cities they enter. Thus, you can spread plague with a unit. When you enter a city with a unit with a plague, the same chances of spreading as if a unit entered a plagued city apply. For the first 5 years after a unit catches a plague, they have decreasing chances of getting damaged by 20%. such as 75% one turn, then 60%, then 45%, then 30%, then 15%, then no chance. But, plagues aren't all THAT bad. For example, you have a unit that's plagued, but has developed an immunity (had it for 5 turns), you waltz into some small city, and kill many of them with the plague, then whoop the hell outta the rest (like conquistidors or however you spell it). So, plagues can be a tactical advantage or disadvantage, depending on how you use it. Oh yeah, if a city has a plague for a long time, say, 10 turns? The city develops an immunity, after 15 or 20 years, a cure is developed, and in that city the disease is abolished. Maybe once a unit enters a cured city, they pick up a cure or two, and can take it to a near city. Man, there is a ton you can do with plagues. That is all on this topic.

[Evil Capitalist]

Plague is needed, yes. However it should vary from the irritating (nationwide measles outbreak), to the troublesome (1665 Plague) to the devastating (Black death, AIDS in Africa). However the following rules should apply.

1) Spread of disease (note- ratio of times more important than actual times). Disease spreads rapidly, but this would need to be slowed down to address playability issues. It could spread e.g. 10 squares a turn over undeveloped grasslands/plains, 5 squares a turn over forests, 5 squares a turn over coastal waters, not at all over undeveloped mountains, deserts or sea. However it will also follow roads (15/turn), rails (30/turn), and trade routes (3 routes/turn regardless of distance). It would also spread from airports in cities without hospitals to other airports, but not as fast.

2) Effects of disease. As previously mentioned there should be varying dgrees of disease. Firstly disease would reduce tile efficiency. Minor outbreaks would just make a worker 'diseased' (or have a similar effect on percentage production), decreasing tile/function productivity. This would gradually pass. More serious illnesses would start killing people, perhaps one or two in a large city. Major illnesses would wipe out populations in droves in unprepared cities, reducing populations by up to 75%.

3) Combatting disease. Various amenities would alleviate this. Firstly some technologies would decrease disease automatically- medicine, pharmaceuticals (if included), refrigeration, sanitation. The following improvements can be built as well- Aquaduct (construction), Sewer (construction as well-the Romans had them remember. Improved by discovery of sanitation), hospital (medicine), Municipal waste collection (railways), pharmaceutical company (pharmaceuticals/corporation)

[Theben]

I feel obliged to respond.

DISEASE & PLAGUES
Cities generate disease pts.= a # based on the tiles around the city. Swamps, jungle, are highest while tundra, desert are lower. Or it could be based on heat & wetness as described in TILES & TILE IMPROVEMENTS. Hot & wet generates lots of disease while cold & dry generates low (I like this better). Other factors are included (below). It reduces growth, and at a certain level plague TI's start to appear (kind o' like pollution). The higher the total the greater chance and frequency plague TI's will develop.

The formula is B+(A-D)/2-N=T

B=Base value of the land tiles
A=Sum of all things that add to disease
D=Sum of all things that are subtracted from disease
N=Given # that represents your people's natural resistance to disease, & efforts to reduce disease (and reduce micromanagement )
T=Total amount. This amount is added to A at the beginning of next turn.

1)Things that increase disease levels:
1a)Working high disease value tiles
1b)"Adjacent" cities & trade routes
1c)Larger cities
1d)Warfare, conquest, riots, rebellion
1e)Germ warfare & spy missions
1f)Destroying buildings that reduce disease
1g)Pollution, constructing buildings that increase pollution
1h)Contact with new civs, re-establishing contact w/ a civ
1i)Plague TI's
1j)Units wandering thru tiles that cause "damage" to them
1k)A lack of food
1l)Random events

1a) Worked tiles add their total value to B. This includes tiles outside the city area but are having it's resources shipped to the city via "supply crawler". Unworked tiles only add 50% of their value.

1b) Disease can "travel" outside of it's origin, and has a "movement" of about 2 per turn, factoring in such things as roads, rr's, etc. When a disease value encounters a city it compares it's B & A values to that of the city. If the city's combined values are higher then nothing happens, if the city's are lower then the difference is added it's A. Trade routes increase the "movement" speed of the disease along it's route. Cities of nations that you haven't met aren't included in the 1st case but are included if there is a trade route going thru it. Eventually all cities that are connected in some manner will have approx. the same disease value.

1c) Cities add a # to A per pop point. Obviously, larger cities add more.

1d) Warfare (each turn a city is attacked) & riots reduce the city's ability to prevent disease, as seen by a loss of D. Conquest & rebellion completely prevent D from functioning for the turn the city is conquered or in rebellion. However, an enemy civ may spend money during warfare or conquest to reduce disease in the target city (see below).

1e) Germ warfare & spy missions simply add a given # to A. Techs can create even higher sums for germ warfare, missions. Seige equipment (catapults, etc.) have an option to use germ warfare when attacking.

1f) Self-explanatory

1g) Polluted tiles add a set # of pts. to A per turn they are in existence. Also, 1 pollution pt. adds 1 pt. to A.

1h) Contact new civs: Units have the disease total of their city if the SE choice is uncentralized, or of the nearest home/allied city in it's supply path if centralized. This amount would be listed in the City View & with the unit as well (not available to enemy view unless allied or modern medicine available). When a unit encounters a new civ, it adds it's city's combined B & A to the A of the city it encountered. This usually results in a outbreak of some kind. The unit will transmit it's new total back to it's home city or the nearest one, depending on the above, as long as it is in it's civ's supply grid and by using the unit's movement in place of the disease's "movement". If not it doesn't transmit until re-connected; the unit "holds onto" the B & A values of the new civ. If contact is lost and later re-established, the cities are only considered to be "adjacent".

1i) See Effects (below)

1j) I've suggested elsewhere that units take damage when moving thru certain terrain (chariots in mountains, swamp). This damage is different than the above but is partially due to disease so I thought it worth mentioning here.

1k) A lack of food= 1 disease pt. per "bushel" shortfall. However, these disease pts. don't apply towards reduced growth, as this is already accounted for in the growth rate.

1l) Random plagues add to A, and may add only a small amount or may add a very large number. In addition, severe plagues may also be accompanied by instant plague TI's generated in the city radius.

2)Things that decrease disease levels:
Preventing the above
Working low disease tiles
Change tiles to less disease-bearing ones
2a)Increasing N
2b)Spend cash
2c)Diplomatic missions
2d)Constructing certain buildings-granary, aqueduct, sewers, city walls, water treatment plant?, mass transit, etc.
2e)Wonders
2f)Population reduction
2g)Quarantine
2h)Certain techs
2i)Random events

2a) N normally=the value of 1a. above. N also increases naturally: each turn that there's a positive amount in T, N increases by 1 point. In the event T is a negative number, N decreases by 1 point.

2b) Cash is paid to increase D. Some techs-medicine, sanitation, public health, etc.-decrease the cost of buying off a disease point. You could set up a given amount to be paid each turn in high disease cities in the city screen. Buying off disease ain't cheap.

2c) This is done in the diplomacy screen. You send another civ aid, by 'buying' some pts. in their city's D (as in 2b.), or give/lend a disease-preventing tech. This can also be done in a city you're attacking or to any city under attack. You may also suggest to an ally how to set up it's city to lower disease (explained in the DIPLOMACY thread).

2d) Buildings add to D, but only affect certain types of disease modifiers. Granaries reduce disease due to lack of food & famine random events; aqueducts greatly reduce disease in large cities; city walls allow the city to "refuse contact" (below) prior to medicine (keeps out the diseased), mass transit by reducing pollution, etc. Again, techs may increase the reduction.

2e) Cure for Cancer & Human Genome Project come to mind. They could affect D &/or act as tech (below).

2f) See Effects

2g) Cities under quarantine have all routes to or through them shut down. No units may enter or leave the city area. Units under quarantine outside their home city area are disbanded. This takes the city off the "adjacent city" lists & trade routes. Other cities can "refuse contact" with them; no units from that city or receiving support from that city may enter the city radius, trade to/through it is shut down. Quarantining isn't available until the discovery of Medicine.

2h) Techs are subtracted directly from T, after the formula is calculated. This allows N to balance the formula to=0, and then tech can give a negative result. If a civ's technology or a declining N makes B+(A-D)/2-N= a negative number, then that number is added to the growth rate next turn.

2i) Random events can add to D, or cause plague TI's to vanish, etc.

3) Effects:

3a) Cities: Each city has the same amount of "free" disease resistance (again, similar to the amount of pollution pts. cities can absorb). Once cities go beyond this point, each disease point lowers city growth, and creates a % chance of a plague TI appearing on the landscape. These cause unhappiness in the city, as well as reducing pop growth even more by adding additional pts. to A, causing plagues to grow quickly if ignored. Each disease point beyond the "free" level increases the chance of the TI appearing, up to a 50% chance. Once disease pts. go beyond this stage, there is a 50% chance of a plague TI appearing and a smaller % chance of another plague TI appearing! There is no limit to the # of chances of a plague TI generating in the city radius (well, 20) in one turn. Once present the player/AI must take action to remove them. These can be removed by settlers/engineers &/or public works, military units (depending on SE choices), or by a loss of a pop unit. Settlers/engineers must be funded and also cost extra food & support. The loss of a pop point causes one plague TI to disappear. Military units can remove a TI by killing a population point. The unit must be in the city or plague TI. This act is frowned upon by certain societies.

3c) Units: Units have the same disease value as either their city of support or the closest home/allied city in their supply route, as figured above. They make checks for outbreaks as cities; the difference being that a successful plague TI generation causes the unit to take 1 point of damage*it's "reactor level" (i.e., the 1,2,3, or 4 hp's of units found in civ2 and SMAC) instead. In the event that a unit encounters another civ (1h. above), unit, or populated TI-or is struck with a plague random event-the increase to it's disease level only lasts the one turn, although it may "hold" onto the disease until reconnecting to it's supply route (as above). Any unit in a plagued tile automatically takes damage, except for settlers/engineeers that are receiving the extra support to cleanse the tile (they are still subject to damage, but it is not automatic).
Units that receive support from a city that has plague TI's cannot switch support to other cities in an attempt to reduce their disease value. Units receiving support from a plagued city also have their morale reduced by 1.

3d) Populated TIs: Military bases, naval bases, supply depots, farms, garrisoned forts, etc. have a disease pt. level=to the nearest city or the city they receive support from. For game purposes they are immune to disease and all it's effects, with the possible exception of village TI's, but how they are affected I'll leave to someone else (ember?).

An example:
A city has 20 points of disease from tiles around it & worked tiles. It is size 4, for 4 more pts. There is a larger city nearby adding +2 pts. overall. The city/civ currently has no techs/buildings/wonders that would add to D. It's N is 20 (equal to 1a.).
The formula is B+(A-D)/2-N=T

With numbers: 20+(6-0)/2-20=3.
We'll say that 5 is the maximum number to get w/o worrying about lowered growth & plague TI's.
T=3, and this number is added to A the following turn. N increases by 1. There are no outside changes to A or D.

turn 2: 20+(9[6+3]-0)/2-21=3 1/2, round up to 4. N again increases by 1. Note that the 3 extra points from the turn before are included in the 4 points added this turn, they don't continue to add up.
turn 3: 20+(10[6+4]-0/2-22=3.
turn 4: 20+(9-0)/2-23=1 1/2 or 2.
turn 5: 20+8/2-24=0.
turn 6: 20+6/2-24=-1. The cit will get a one turn boost to it's growth (a very minor boost).
turn 7: 20+5/2-23=0.
turn 8: 20+6/2-23=0. The numbers have stabilized, and won't change, w/o additional interference.

Now lets say another civ you've never met comes along. The city supporting it has a B of 16 and an A of 4, =20.

20+(6+another 20, for 26-0)/2-23=23. Let us also say that each +1 above 5=a +10% chance of a plague TI generating, so there are 23-5 18 points, for 3-50% chances of a TI appearing, and 1-30% chance. Let's say that 2 TI's generate, and that each one adds +3 disease points.

Next turn: 20+(6+23+6-0)/2-24=13.5 or 14. Now there's 1-50% chance and 1-40% chance. You're unlucky and 2 more TI's appear, bringing the total to 4. Your populace is dimishing quickly. You decide to shell out cash to buy some defense, 4 points worth.

Turn 3: 20+(6+14+12-4)/2-25=9. No new TI's appear. In fact one of your people die and thus a TI disappears. Your base A value and TI value have both decreased. You also discover medicine, which subtracts a point from T, before T is calculated to inhibit growth & generate plague but after N's change is figured. You pay for 4 more points of D.

Turn 4: 20+(5+8+9-4)/2-26=3. The crisis is over, and eventually will stabilize. You may lose one more pop point before it's over. Note that if you didn't immediately quarantine the city (and because you didn't have medicine, you couldn't; but other cities might have walls), the new disease will "move" to nearby cities causing the same problems.

[Shogun Gunner]

Theben:

You have created a section to could be lifted wholesale and placed into Civ III and the manual!!!

Between DarkCloud, Evil Capitalist and you what else is there left to say on the subject?

Great postings.

[Theben]

Shogun Gunner:

Thanks for the praise, but in all honesty I wrote this before I read Guns, Germs, & Steel & it could really use an update.

[Evil Capitalist]

*Applauds Theben*

[DarkCloud]

Thank you Shogun, I merely pilfered this off Sidgames, and thought that it would be a good and interesting read.
*Bows*

[Maccabee2]

Theben, I'm impressed. I work in the medical field and I couldn't have written it better. Bravo!

[Nikolai]

From the Guns, Germs and Steel-project homepage:

quote: Infectiousness: 1-10 with 1 being E-coli which doesn't spread on it's own and 10 being Influenza which is airborne. This is the rate at which the disease is spread and generally modifies the quarantine variable. Incubation: 1-10 1 being several years and 10 being just a few days. 1 diseases would spread throughout the whole population before any notice is given to the player and would take a while before the effects take shape while 10 diseases can wipe out whole squares before getting a chance to spread. Mortality: 1-10 with 1 meaning only a few physically weak people might die and 10 meaning a 100% mortality rate, no survivors. (Not necessarily everyone gets sick, of course) Cureability: 1-10 with 1 being a simple parasite that can be washed off, 2 is a parasite that requires some special treatment, 3 is a bacteria that can be treated with herbs, 10 is a retro-virus for which there is no cure at present. Certain advances can adjust this number- the discovery of penicillin etc. With new strains, the higher number here indicates resistance to earlier treatments. Dependence of Environment(DOE): This tells, how dependent it is of the conditions at the location it was born. Also for each disease would be stored the climate type of the spawning site. Diseases with dependence factor of 1could spread only to the similar climate areas, while with 10 they could spread anywhere. Of course these numbers can change, after x number of turns treating "disease c5" with penicillin, it's curability number would be raised by 1 in a new strain and renamed "disease c6" NOTE: Except for some, i.e. HIV, these are all based, on when the disease first appeared, i.e. Smallpox is very preventable now, but in the early years, it was much deadlier.

Examples:

quote: HIV: Infectiousness = 3 Incubation = 1 Mortality = 10 Cureability = 10 DOE = 10 Influenza: Infectiousness = 10 Incubation = 6 Mortality = 1-4(var) Cureability = 9 DOE = 4 Smallpox: Infectiousness = 7 Incubation = 5 Mortality = 9 Curability = 6 DOE = 8 Pneumonia: Infectiousness = 0 Incubation = 6 Mortality = 8 Curability = 6 DOE = 4 These are only a few possibilities. Based on a civilizations medical knowledge index the chance of detecting increases, mortality rate decreases and the number you get for being able to cure a disease increases. The perfect example of this is Smallpox, which is these days 99.9% eradicated. In fact the only known storage of Smallpox is being kept, in case the disease ever surfaces again. This was meant to be destroyed last year, which would have got rid of it forever, but they decided to hold onto it for a year or two longer.

Realistic Disease Spread:

quote: Each square will have a negative value by default, which means that there are no diseases in that square. If it does have a disease than it is a disease like AI, or B3. TileA: Dis,- TileB: Dis,- TileC: Dis,A3 TileD: Dis,A3,B2,F1 TileE: Dis,-whereas in gameplay "Disease A" might be named "Smallpox", and three is the particular strain of that disease. Any undected diseases would have an X% chance of spreading to an adjacent square depending on infrastructure, that chance would be reduced by half if that square is quarantined the same turn it is detected and reduced by half again each turn after (after it's already too late, of course =). Cities connected with active trade’s routes would have a 99% chance of spreading the disease. Aqueducts will reduce the chance of an outbreak occurring on that square by 50%, but will facilitate a spread by doubling the chance if an outbreak does occur. Any infected units (unmarked during gameplay) automatically spread the disease to everything it touches. Imagine the terror in a player when he receives the message "You Legion has been eradicated by the Plague" when that player realizes that same legion has been through the heart of his empire. Consequently, there needs to be a time lapse between infection and detection.

Research Disease Cures:

quote: In addition to this, there can be a section of your research, where if you have a certain disease, then there can be an option to research a cure/vaccine for the disease, i.e. what is happening with AIDS and Cancer at the moment. Then after a certain number of years, you will have discovered a cure. Now this leaves you with a few opportunities. You could use the disease for biological warfare, knowing that if your enemies reciprocate with the same disease you will have a vaccine/cure to it. Alternatively, you could sell it to the rest of the world, which would be a handy benefit to your wallet! The price the rest of the world is willing to pay would depend on the mortality of the disease. A cure/vaccine, for something like AIDS, would sell for much more than a cure for the common cold, although both would be handy! The final option, the ‘gentleman’ option would be to give it away to the rest of the world, which should give you a bonus to your reputation. Just on reputation I believe it should be on a scale of 1-100, with 1 being you are the nicest person, and 100 being you are a sadistic bastard. If you give away the cure/vaccine than you will be a few points taken away from the scale. In fact, I might start a whole reputation thread later! In the modern years, there can be research centers built in each city that would allow you to research for cures into diseases, without actually using it as your technology that you are pursing. Another idea: Perhaps there can be funding. I don't know what we are planning on doing on corporations, but maybe if you are discovering an cure for cancer, then a corporation can put in funding for it, and then if it is discovered they get some sort of recognition. Don't know if this will work under a corporation system or not.

Hypotetical:

quote: Civ A’s immunity to certain diseases would be different to Civ B’s. Let’s set up a hypothetical: Civ A = Romans Civ B = Indians The Indian Unit has a bad case of smallpox. He meets the Roman unit, who exchange words, but then return to their own civilizations. Let’s say the Roman goes back to Rome, which has around 1 million people. Smallpox is a deadly disease with the following characteristics: Infectiousness = 7 Incubation = 5 Mortality = 9 Curability = 6 As the Infectiousness is 7, than 700,000 people of Rome will get the disease. The amount of time it takes to get the disease will start with a figure, and then decrease the next turn, i.e.: 1st Turn back – 100,000 2nd Turn back – 300,000 3rd Turn back – 100,000 4th Turn back – 75,000 5th Turn back – 50,000 6th Turn back – 25,000 and etc. Out of the 700,000 that contracted the disease than 40% of them will be cured, (100%-60%). This leaves us with 700,000 – 280,000, or 420,000. Then out of that 90% of them will die, or 378,000. In a case like this, there is also the possibility of a unit of one Roman city, not knowing he had smallpox, entering another city, and setting off the disease in there. There will be certain things that the player can do to curb this. As the Incubation is 5, then a certain period of time will pass, say for example two turns, before the player is aware of the epidemic. Then he has the option of doing something about it, i.e. quarantining all the un-effected people, which can help to stem the flow of this disease, or researching for a cure/vaccine, or even buying one, if someone has discovered it. . This is just an extreme case that is an example of an epidemic. In some cases only a percentage of all this will happen. This could be determined by a random generator, and/or affected by sanitation levels in the city. It can also be affected by the player’s immunity to certain diseases. If the city had had smallpox before, than he would have say, for example, a 50% immunity to it, so then the effect would be lowered by 50% and by all the other modifiers. Some Civ’s would be affected by disease different to other Civ’s would be affected by the same disease. Also at the beginning of the game, some Civ’s would have certain disease that other Civ’s wouldn’t have, like the tropical cities, would often get malaria, while one’s located not near rivers wouldn’t.

Strains:

quote: Here's another thing, Influenza always mutates. So every year even though there may be some immunities developed by earlier strains, each new strain makes prior immunities useless. To model this, diseases could be named "A1" or "A2" indicating two different strains of the same disease. While a prior infection would provide some help, maybe a 10% bonus, it would be of little use

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Who am I? What am I? Do we need Civ? Yes!!
birteaw@online.no

[Tical_2000]

ha!...yeah right...like I'm gonna read that!!!
wanna try and make it longer next time, nikolai??!!

[Tiberius]

What's your problem Tical? Had a bad day on November 28?? If you're not in the mood, then don't read. And if can only insult and criticize others, then don't post

[Nikolai]

quote: Originally posted by Tical_2000 on 11-28-2000 09:38 PM ha!...yeah right...like I'm gonna read that!!! wanna try and make it longer next time, nikolai??!!

I know it's a long post, and I DID think of it! But I wouldn't write it different than the original because I thougth I could come to write wrong!

Also, I have read the rules in this forum, and there it stands that it's not legal to post to many posts!

By the way, what do you guys think of the idea(s)?

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Who am I? What am I? Do we need Civ? Yes!!
birteaw@online.no

[Vrank Prins]

To all guy's here, good thread !!!!

In the new game cities should be allowed to grow beyond seize 8 & 12 without having an aqueduct or sewerage. In other words, not having them shouldn't stop cities from growing anymore.

Consequences of that should be after a few turns poor haelth-condition, social discontent, and in the longer run even plaques which could wipe out half your.
In other threads it is discussed that the game should start in "pre-prehistoric" times. Not being able to build the necessary improvements in your cities, just for not having reached the point of advancement where you acquire the right tech's might mean a structural set back in this part of game.

[raingoon]

Excellent thread. This is a sleeper idea -- I think it has the potential to really change Civ for the better. And yeah -- to anyone who doesn't like long, thoughtful posts: you got the wrong site.

[Wazell]

Exactly. No need for these artificial limits (though many scenarios benefit from them), so the main game does well without them. In ancient times those big trade cities weren't too good places to live, and diseases spreaded heavily.

Disease system is truly an important aspect of history which hasn't been included in strategy games yet. It would fit very well to civ for all those reasons already discussed. We all know that plagues from Europe killed most American indians, being much more efficient in that work than conquistadors themselves. These events had great role past times, and handling them in Civ3 requires a good and complex model, like the one in Theben's post, simple random events won't work.

Anyway, keep up the good work in this thread, and hope Firaxis reads it all!

[Vrank Prins]

We're all more or less talking about the medi-eval and further-beyond times. I can think of another timeframe in which the healtsituation was appaling. During the early industrial age cities boomed. Cholera, tyfoid, and tuberculosis emerged as hygienical and social diseases. It would be nice if this, historical phenomenen (booming cities, decreased healthcondition, new (city-)improvements to solve these problems) somehow could be "expressed" in the game.