Kuja, your dearest friend

[DrFell]

It's come to my attention that Kuja has started playing with several Apolyton players. Since many of you probably won't know of Kuja's long history on GameLeague and Civfanatics Ladder, and since he is claiming friendship with you, I think it would be best for me to enlighten you on the unethical behavior of Kuja, past and present. You should know what 'friendship' with Kuja really means.

A long while ago, Kuja was known as VeijoVerde and AilingLeech. With both of these names he was removed from Gameleague for having multiple accounts, and for reporting wins to them (for an illegal gain in points). This started off Kuja's cheating career, but things went downhill from then on.

After these names were banned from gameleague, Kuja came back under the name HiddenHorror. He achieved some success and fooled many players into thinking he was very skilled. However, it turned out that he had discovered an even more insidious method of cheating, one that was harder to detect if done properly. This method involved the use of cheatomatic to edit the values for gold in game, thus giving him the ability to buy settlers etc. and get a good start every game. If done properly the increases in gold can be made to coincide with hut opening, thus masking the effect. However, he was eventually caught, and again banned from Gameleague. The following is a link to the thread where this all happened. Oedo posted a save on the second page, you can still download it. Kuja was playing as the Romans: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...0&pagenumber=2

Now we move onto the final stage of the Kuja story. He returned to Gameleague under his current name, and quickly rose to the number one spot with very few losses. Gameleague however eventually died, and so you might think things would have stopped right there. And so they did, for awhile at least.

However a few months ago Kuja returned to the zone. I played him many times, always wondering how he got such great starts but never suspecting he cheated. I fortunately kept saves of all these games, as I do when I play anyone who is suspect. However I never really went through them until about a month ago I played Kuja in a quick duel. Things seemed not quite right though, he got a phenominal start, and crushed me very early on. I was interested to see how good his start was, and decided to look through the saves. I was totally shocked by what I saw, the amount of gold he had was incredible for so early in the game, so I sent the saves to Eyes. He pretty much confirmed what I had thought, that Kuja STILL uses cheatomatic to give himself gold. The saves I had weren't the best though, as in many cases it seemed he tried to make the 100 gold bursts coincide with empty huts/huts with tech (at one point he gets poly and 100 gold from the same hut), so I searched through my old saves. In them I found at least 5 suspicious games, and 2 examples of blatant cheating (out of 15 games). I'll post the most obvious one in a zip file below.

Now these saves were posted on civfan as proof of Kuja's cheating. However Kuja wrote a lengthly defence containing multiple inconsistencies, for only the first set of saves, before the thread was deleted. I have spoken to Kuja on the zone several times after, he eventually decided to admit to cheating me (after accusing me of doctoring saves when he couldn't explain some of the saves I posted, look at Robbie's posts on my other thread for an example of someone he has 'influenced'). His excuse for cheating me was feeble to say the least. He claimed 'I only cheated you because I didn't trust you and thought you cheated' (I'll post the chatlog from the zone chat we had today where he admitted it). At least I suppose, this is one step up from his previous excuse 'I did it for you Sean, I did it because I know you like to win' on the thread I posted a link to.

It may also interest you to know that HiddenHorror's identity as Kuja was kept a secret until recently. Some people had suspicions, but others, especially Eyes, went to great lengths to dispel any such rumours, as they believed he had changed. As it turns out, he hadn't. Kuja's cheating is a recurring problem, he has cheated under all his names so far. He comes up with laughable excuses when he is caught, and then leaves and changes his name. Or in this case, he moves onto pastures new, where no one knows of his cheating and no one will question him. I know you Apolyton players value trust and fair play, and I would think twice before attributing these qualities to Kuja. Don't make the same mistakes I and many others made. 'Friendship' with Kuja is nothing but lies and cheating, of which Kuja has a long history. We may only be touching the tip of the iceberg here.

[Ming]

Yeah... Yeah... Yeah..
Blah... Blah... Blah...

Yawn...

Well, he will get a chance to prove his honesty when he plays us.
He played in the Friday night game yesterday. As always, we will make our own judgements about players.

Do you have a personal problem with Kuja?
It seems like a lot of work to trash somebody, especially when nobody seems to care.
Frankly, mentioning eyes in any thread on cheating is kind of funny

[DrFell]

Here's the chatlog from the zone today. It's a bit long and I tried to edit out the irrelevant parts, I think everything should be there:


l3lood_Oath> kuja came up with a brilliant excuse for his cheating tho hehe 'i cheated against you just in case you were a cheater'
whois_Iamsuks> He really said that?
l3lood_Oath> yes
whois_Iamsuks> LOL That doesn't come close though to his earlier one "I cheated for you because you wanted to win the game so bad"
l3lood_Oath> hehe. he really drops himself in the **** tho
l3lood_Oath> shame he can't get himself back out of it, i told him not to bother with excuses
whois_Iamsuks> He sucks.
whois_Iamsuks> I've more than likely beaten him when he's cheated.
l3lood_Oath> i have a couple saves where i did end up beating him after he cheated, he usually just gives himself so much gold then just buys horses etc. makes it difficult to win him on small
(Exit)> Downstrike1
(Exit)> battledeck
whois_Iamsuks> Too bad this didn't happen back when the game was still alive.
whois_Iamsuks> Amazing how the game completely died in about 2 weeks.
l3lood_Oath> yeah, well killing off cf killed the competition aspect
l3lood_Oath> everyone who's left doesn't seem to give a **** if they're cheated or not
(Enter)> battledeck
whois_Iamsuks> That's because they're not competitive players.
whois_Iamsuks> Like battledeck for example. He's just a casual newbie.
(Exit)> sengaia
l3lood_Oath> true, he really sucks
whois_Iamsuks> exactly. Players like that help contribute to the death of this game.
l3lood_Oath> i only play games to win hehe i find fun games too boring, plus half of them never finish
(Enter)> JoshW1476
(Exit)> JoshW1476
l3lood_Oath> it's a shame there's no good players left
whois_Iamsuks> Yep.
l3lood_Oath> i thought cardcounter might have some skill, as he kicked my ass a few months back, i played him today, he didn't stand a chance
l3lood_Oath> i hope kuja doesn't dispute these games, i'm on exactly 2000 points
whois_Iamsuks> Cardcounter sucks. He used to be called jsk13 back in the old civleague.
l3lood_Oath> yeah he isn't as good as i thought, i took a size 8 city of his with a horse and he bribed it back for god's sake, why didnt he just build a couple horses
l3lood_Oath> he wants to continue the game but he's completely boxed in and i have over double his cities and 3 wonders
whois_Iamsuks> lol
whois_Iamsuks> He's accused me of cheating so many times it's not even funny.
l3lood_Oath> i get accused of cheating all the time now, especially with this 2 hour disconnect thing. it's not as if i would even need to look at the map with 99% of these players
l3lood_Oath> the only good player i played in a month is kingus or whatever his name is
whois_Iamsuks> Kingus...yes...I recognize that name.
l3lood_Oath> he came on under a diff name, i couldn't tell who it was, thought it might be kuja making a return as he wanted an atawa league game
_DeityDude> i heard slowthinker was sweet
whois_Iamsuks> I heard slowthinker was gay.
_DeityDude> i heard he was better then Eyes of Night
whois_Iamsuks> From who?
whois_Iamsuks> Slowthinker has never played MP before.
_DeityDude> how can u say that - have u observed everyone of his games
whois_Iamsuks> No, I've asked him.
_DeityDude> im joking about hin beibg good
l3lood_Oath> i thought slowthinker was the granary guy
whois_Iamsuks> He prides himself on his "algorithims" which he feels are the key to winning games.
_DeityDude> but he abd i and eyes were in a game
_DeityDude> and he thought eyes stole my ID
l3lood_Oath> hehehe i remember that on that thread
l3lood_Oath> 'eyesofnight (_deitydude on the zone)' hehe
whois_Iamsuks> Me too.
(Enter)> KuJa_2
l3lood_Oath> oh my
whois_Iamsuks> Quote of the day: "I only cheated you to see if you cheated"
l3lood_Oath> could things get better
l3lood_Oath> lol
whois_Iamsuks> Quote of yesterday: "I cheated for you eyes because you wanted to win the game so bad".
l3lood_Oath> yeah 'i did it for you sean'
whois_Iamsuks> lol
whois_Iamsuks> I love it.
whois_Iamsuks> Priceless moments like that are what make this game great.
l3lood_Oath> looks like the man himself isn't going to comment
whois_Iamsuks> What can he say?
whois_Iamsuks> he can't say anything.
l3lood_Oath> i don't know, maybe he's thinking of a better excuse
_DeityDude> who siad that
whois_Iamsuks> It's unfortunate this didn't come out back when the game was still alive.
l3lood_Oath> kuja, his past excuses for cheating
KuJa_2> the game is fully alive
whois_Iamsuks> Fully alive? I think not.
l3lood_Oath> yeah i know, 5 months ago would have been classic
whois_Iamsuks> YOu've never seen fully alive.
KuJa_2> maybe b/c nobody likes you, it's not allive for you
whois_Iamsuks> This coming from a guy who has been cheating for the past 2 years.
KuJa_2> is that why i just played a 5 way game last night w/ Rah, SmartFart, Berzerker, and passout?
whois_Iamsuks> I'm pretty sure I'd win in a popularity contest.
KuJa_2> or today with martin and gary?
KuJa_2> or every night with jamie?
KuJa_2> trust me, it's not hard to find a game if you have friends
l3lood_Oath> the worst of it is people still play him because no one cares that they get cheated now
whois_Iamsuks> Ok, that's it. Time to pull out the big guns.
whois_Iamsuks> I can see my absence has allowed this game to sink to a new level.
l3lood_Oath> interesting - you played with rah? perhaps a nice thread on apolyton will do?
KuJa_2> yep, i played with rah
KuJa_2> why?
l3lood_Oath> hehe. i have so many saves kuja. 100 gold out of no where when you get a bad start?
KuJa_2> ming was gonna play, but his brother played instead
l3lood_Oath> i found several more a couple weeks ago. i've gone through all the saves now
KuJa_2> yep, you can find all the saves you want
whois_Iamsuks> You already sealed your fate man. You told oath you cheated him because you wanted to see if he cheats.
KuJa_2> you are the only one i cheated against
KuJa_2> yep, that's exactly what i did
whois_Iamsuks> HOLD UP! You cheated in a team game.
KuJa_2> team game?
whois_Iamsuks> I'm posting the link to the thread.
KuJa_2> you can do all you want, b/c my friends know me
whois_Iamsuks> lol
KuJa_2> oh, and how are you doing oath? it must be nice to be called by your so-called friend his "*****"
l3lood_Oath> you sound like another cheater kasya aka merlin aka a billion other names
KuJa_2> i saw in the zone the other day you were referred to as "my *****" by none other than eyes
whois_Iamsuks> The other day? what day was this?
l3lood_Oath> frankly, i don't really care
whois_Iamsuks> lol
whois_Iamsuks> THat's beside the point.
whois_Iamsuks> What day was this?
KuJa_2> hm, 2 or 3 days ago?
KuJa_2> i scrolled up when i came in and saw it
l3lood_Oath> at least he's not a cheater. and why should i believe a word you say now anyway?
whois_Iamsuks> Be specific.
KuJa_2> i don't care if you believe me or not, you will find out the hard way what eyes is really about
KuJa_2> hm, i can't remember who you were talking to
KuJa_2> i have to think
(Enter)> laziesmurf
(Exit)> laziesmurf
whois_Iamsuks> Eyes is about getting rid of cheaters like you.
_DeityDude> LOL
_DeityDude> EYES IS ABOUT EYES
_DeityDude> AND NOTHING ELSE
KuJa_2> haha, deitydude has got that right
(Enter)> _HawkHunter_
l3lood_Oath> kuja is about lying and cheating, and nothing else
KuJa_2> lying and cheating to other liars and cheaters
whois_Iamsuks> Dude. You come out and say "I cheated you to see if you were cheating" and you really think people are going to believe you?
l3lood_Oath> funny thing is he didn't cheat in all the games
KuJa_2> ask my friends, you'll see what i'm really about, it's amazing how they keep playing me considering how i .. ahem... cheat, right?
whois_Iamsuks> That's because most people don't know.
KuJa_2> um, these ppl have known me since the beginning
KuJa_2> gary, jamie, robbie, dank, booze, they don't know me?
KuJa_2> did robbie really stop playing b/c you beat him oath?
l3lood_Oath> yeah
KuJa_2> i haerd nothing about that
whois_Iamsuks> Jamie plays with kasya still.
l3lood_Oath> ask strate, he made the map
whois_Iamsuks> Jamie doesn't count.
KuJa_2> kasya still plays/
whois_Iamsuks> You could rape jamie's ass and he'd still be your friend.
KuJa_2> no, jamie gives me good games
whois_Iamsuks> I've known jamie much much longer than you.
l3lood_Oath> let me guess though you always get 100s of gold out of huts and end up winning? am i right?
KuJa_2> and if i cheat so much, why was i invited to join rah/ming, berzerker, smartfart, and passedout for weekly civ?
KuJa_2> nope, that was just against you
KuJa_2> and i told you why that was
KuJa_2> and i don't care whether you believe me or not
KuJa_2> if you think i cheat, don't play me
KuJa_2> simple as that
l3lood_Oath> you didn't cheat every game though. only ones you were losing in/got a bad start
l3lood_Oath> well i'd like to save other people from having to play a cheater
KuJa_2> gary could spot a cheater a mile away
KuJa_2> yet he still plays me day after day??
_DeityDude> why cheat?
_DeityDude> whats the point
_DeityDude> this isnt for money or anything
_DeityDude> i mean why cheat
l3lood_Oath> actually he even accused me of cheating, it's just one of his old tricks to try getting out of games he's losing
KuJa_2> if gary knew he would lose, he'd give up and stop wasting his time
KuJa_2> he'd rather play a good game than waste him time on a losing effort
l3lood_Oath> he doesn't really look at the evidence. and i doubt he saves every turn
KuJa_2> no, he does
KuJa_2> i played him the other day on a medium map game
KuJa_2> and he went through my saves to poitn out my mistakes
(Enter)> alicambol
KuJa_2> thanks to him i am quite good on medium map island games
whois_Iamsuks> Who cares man. There's all kinds of saves of you cheating. That's what people look at.
_DeityDude> y would anyone cheat in a friendly game
whois_Iamsuks> Nobody gives a **** if you beat some rookie without cheating.
KuJa_2> yep, and oath has all of them
_DeityDude> what is there to gain
whois_Iamsuks> Dude, you already tried the "he edited the saves" defense and I already shot that down.
l3lood_Oath> actually no i don't. oedo had saves of you cheating
KuJa_2> no, i shot that down
KuJa_2> yep, like 2 years ago?
l3lood_Oath> it's on a gl thread. same kind of cheating stunt you pulled on me actually, buying settlers
KuJa_2> yep, like 2 years ago?
KuJa_2> in the team game with eyes?
_DeityDude> kuja: if u didnt cheat why even argue the point oath: if he did cheat why even talk to him
_DeityDude> this is an arguement that will never end
_DeityDude> so why have it
KuJa_2> hehe, b/c it's fun how stupid they are
whois_Iamsuks> Actually it will end.
l3lood_Oath> because he did cheat, he even admitted it
KuJa_2> i like to rile them up
whois_Iamsuks> Blah blah blah "I enjoy it". heard that before deity?
KuJa_2> let me ask you this, was any of those games rated? no, they weren't
whois_Iamsuks> That's my line.
KuJa_2> and if you don't want to believe why i cheated you, then don't
KuJa_2> ask me if i care
_DeityDude> it just seems stupid - no one is ever gonna admit the other is right so you both look petty by arguing non-stop in public
KuJa_2> see, here's a concept, you make friends instead of enemies, you play every night, continue saved games, have FUN, and laugh at all the ppl like you who have none of that
_DeityDude> and if he soesnt cheat then it would be a good game
Der_Hazardeur> blood oath are u whois_iams ***** ?
_DeityDude> kuja if thats how you feel why do u keep it going
KuJa_2> yep, were you there in the zone der_hazardeur when eyes called oath his *****?
_DeityDude> just ignore them and let your actions speak for themselves
KuJa_2> haha, so we can have a good laugh when we talk about them
_DeityDude> oath if he cheats dont play him
Der_Hazardeur> i was here
l3lood_Oath> deitydude if he cheats you then you're wasting your time
KuJa_2> ha, there eyes, there's my proof
KuJa_2> when you called oath your "*****" in the zone
Der_Hazardeur> he did
Der_Hazardeur> you are HIS *****
Der_Hazardeur> wow what a achievmend
l3lood_Oath> is that really relevent?
KuJa_2> i used to be his *****, til i got a mind of my OWN
Der_Hazardeur> up to you oath
_DeityDude> i dont check for cheats because i assume people are honeeeest
Der_Hazardeur> you have to know by yourselv what really relevant
_DeityDude> if someone wants to cheat me in a game of civ they are the loser not me
l3lood_Oath> changing the subject is a bad idea at this point kuja
Der_Hazardeur> being somebody elses *****
KuJa_2> i'm not changing anything, i created that subject as soon as i walked in the zone
KuJa_2> you were the one that changed it
l3lood_Oath> actually we were talking about it before
KuJa_2> what, when you were between his legs?
l3lood_Oath> you arrived at a pretty convenient time
whois_Iamsuks> Oath do me a favor. Can you dig up the forum post on the gameleague forum about kuja cheating in that team game?
Der_Hazardeur> how does it fell to be somebodys ***** oath ?
l3lood_Oath> you're beginning to sound like robbie now
whois_Iamsuks> OATH!! Listen to me.
l3lood_Oath> yeah ok, it onlt need a search
whois_Iamsuks> There's no point in arguing with him.
KuJa_2> yes, cling to the past eyes
KuJa_2> nobody cares
KuJa_2> dumbass
KuJa_2> see, you don't understand the concept of "friends"
KuJa_2> you can dig up all you want, we'll still have our weekly friday night games
KuJa_2> i'll still play my medium map games w/ gary
KuJa_2> my small map games w/ jamie
KuJa_2> deity games w/ apolytoners
KuJa_2> why not just dig up the old post where you already explained all my old names?
KuJa_2> it should save you some effort
l3lood_Oath> yes i looked at some of the history of kuja when i fonud he cheated
KuJa_2> what is wrong with reporting a win against myself?
KuJa_2> i would have 1800 points, got tired of my name
KuJa_2> i create a better name i like, and have say 1100 poitns
KuJa_2> tell me the harm in that
KuJa_2> lower my points by 7000
l3lood_Oath> and then report to yourself? ridiculous
KuJa_2> 700
KuJa_2> yes, that is really cheating... lowering my points by 700
whois_Iamsuks> Next oath, I want you to take the chat here, and post it on the forums as well.
whois_Iamsuks> hehehe
KuJa_2> yes oath, and when you are throw with that, i want you to suck my hard on
KuJa_2> yeah, can you suck my hard on too?
KuJa_2> or can you only do 1 at a time?
whois_Iamsuks> I already have him on ignore.
KuJa_2> you mean stuff that's true that you don't want to hear?
l3lood_Oath> funny how all cheaters degenerate to this level

Some people are just stupid I guess. 2 years and literally 50 people who have had experiences with him and they still say they want to see themselves. I gave him two chances and it's ended the same way both times. But I guess you'll find out yourself. Kasya/Merlin/TheStub and all his other names was the same way. Nobody believed it until it finally happened to them. Took 2 years to finally get rid of him. He's no longer a problem on the zone nor on ladder. He's your problem now and I would consider this a friendly warning if I were you. This game is dead and if he cheats the grand total of 5 or 6 players on apolyton, that's your problem. You've been warned. I would think the forum post from a year ago would be enough, but some people obviously have thick skulls.

[DrFell]

Originally posted by Ming
Yeah... Yeah... Yeah..
Blah... Blah... Blah...

Yawn...

Well, he will get a chance to prove his honesty when he plays us.
He played in the Friday night game yesterday. As always, we will make our own judgements about players.

Do you have a personal problem with Kuja?
It seems like a lot of work to trash somebody, especially when nobody seems to care.
Frankly, mentioning eyes in any thread on cheating is kind of funny

Naah, the only problems I have with Kuja are his consistent cheating and lies. Anyway, the saves are there - Kuja is Japan. Check out saves from 4000BC-3900BC. I suggest saving every turn when you play this guy, he's not to be trusted.

By the way Ming, if you had bothered to read the topic from last year you'd see people like Cavebear and slowwhand and all of gameleague were involved in it.

[Ming]

Originally posted by EnigmaticGod
By the way Ming, if you had bothered to read the topic from last year

You must be forgetting about my duties here... Of course I read it, I read just about everything... I HAVE TO!

I just find it a little strange that you are bringing it back up at this time... I have a hard time believing that you are doing it to "protect" us... It just sounds like to me that you guys have had a falling out, and you are doing your best to piss all over him

[Spartan_RawB]

It's funny how Dr. Fell is a walking paradox. He claims to hate cheaters (allegedly, Kuja cheated and he hates him) but yet is quite buddy-buddy with a self-admitted cheater in Eyes. Go figure.

As for cheating, I don't know how the definition goes, but I checked into my gameleague account a few days ago and saw that Dr. Fell had reported false wins against me and others to catapult himself to the top. I guess for someone who has never made it to the top 10 in any ladder (others refuse to play him for points b/c of shady practices), he wanted to get on the list *that bad*.

I've known Kuja for some time now, and he's a helluva more pleasant fellow than Eyes or Dr. Fell.

Fell, please get a life and stop your slandering. For someone who has threatened to frame me with doctored saves, I look at your posted "proofs" with a very skeptical eye.

[Kuja]

yo robbie! where have you been? don't tell me you are gonna stay away from the game just b/c of fell.... the game needs you! do you have ICQ?

[Spartan_RawB]

LOL

Okay, I just scrolled up and saw the comment by Kuja, "Did Robbie drop out of civ scene because [Dr. Fell] beat him?" To which Dr. Fell replied in the affirmative.

LOL

Jesus, this guy lies through his teeth! The premade map by A-team was never even used and the game wasn't even played because Dr. Fell could see my original starting position. Hence we decided to postpone the game. I then left the scene for a while to get some work done, and Dr. Fell is telling others he *beat* me in that game! And worse yet, that's why I supposedly *left* the civ scene!

Dr. Fell, I don't know how you do this, but you continue to lie through your teeth. Perhaps, you can post that game you "won" against me for everyone to see since you so conveniently keep all your saves?

What a liar... LOL

[Kuja]

haha.. why does that not surprise me.... so do you have ICQ?

[DrFell]

Originally posted by Spartan_RawB
It's funny how Dr. Fell is a walking paradox. He claims to hate cheaters (allegedly, Kuja cheated and he hates him) but yet is quite buddy-buddy with a self-admitted cheater in Eyes. Go figure.

As for cheating, I don't know how the definition goes, but I checked into my gameleague account a few days ago and saw that Dr. Fell had reported false wins against me and others to catapult himself to the top. I guess for someone who has never made it to the top 10 in any ladder (others refuse to play him for points b/c of shady practices), he wanted to get on the list *that bad*.

I've known Kuja for some time now, and he's a helluva more pleasant fellow than Eyes or Dr. Fell.

Fell, please get a life and stop your slandering. For someone who has threatened to frame me with doctored saves, I look at your posted "proofs" with a very skeptical eye.

Ummm Robbie, it's not slander, it's fact. He admitted to all the cheating I described in the first post. Read the post and chatlog before you jump to conclusions. The false wins were to take Kuja off the top of the league, a place he really doesn't deserve to be, and considering the admins are no longer around there's no way of getting him banned. I've never had a game refused against me because of my 'shady practises', whatever that means, and getting to the top of GL is the last of my concerns (notice I wasn't top after I reported the wins?). By the way, Eyes cheated a few times ever, Kuja has been cheating for years. A couple isolated incidents vs tens or hundreds of games over the past couple years is a considerable difference.

[Ming]

ROTFLMAO...

A cheater calling somebody else a cheater... you just have to love it. You reported wins you didn't earn... That's cheating, pure and simple. Your reasoning for doing so doesn't make it OK...



And then your last point is even funnier... Eyes cheated less, so it's not as bad...


Plus, you are only talking about the times they have been "Caught" cheating... not the number of times they may have cheated.

This is great for entertainment value...

Bringing what up? This is a present thing ming. Didn't you read drfell's post? These games against drfell took place like a couple of weeks ago. As for the gameleague thing, it's dead. The last game reported on gameleague was 1 month ago by Jamie. Before that the most recent game was in november. It actually started off with me reporting wins against kuja, but then I decided to get you too robbie. hehehe Now if you were to be still playing gameleague and everyone else was playing gameleague, then yeah, it would be cheating. But since Frank Johnson himself has said that the site would have been taken down by now were it not for the fact he doesn't have the password, who really cares?

But back to the topic. Yes I cheated 3 years ago. Cheat o matic. And yes I edited the rules.txt for the riot factor which is I guess "technically" cheating. But for your information, during that time (with the exception of apolyton) alot of people edited their riot factor. I wasn't the only one and just about half of gameleague knew it before it ever even came out. However my last real cheating (I still don't consider the riot factor that big a deal no matter what you guys say) was 3 years ago. Kuja's was probably 3 days ago. Where I stopped after the first time, Kuja has been doing it for 2 years. And I know he has because I have seen the games where he gets massive amounts of 100 gold huts. And lets just say you took me and drfell completely out of the picture. What about people like slowwhand? What about people like Cavebear? What about Oedo and Zylka? What about everyone else who has seen him cheat? He has been cheating for 2 years, I'm not sure how you guys can even argue this. He's not even defending anything we've said or what he's done. He's playing the "lets all be friends" game. If you guys are suckers for that, go for it. But just remember, you guys have never forgiven me for something I did 3 years ago, how can you forgive him for something he did for 2 years straight?

[Ming]

Originally posted by EnigmaticGod
It actually started off with me reporting wins against kuja, but then I decided to get you too robbie. hehehe Now if you were to be still playing gameleague and everyone else was playing gameleague, then yeah, it would be cheating. But since Frank Johnson himself has said that the site would have been taken down by now were it not for the fact he doesn't have the password, who really cares?

ROTFLMAO...


This is just too much...



Oh... and eyes, where did I ever say that I had forgiven him?

This is just too much? Have you been to the gameleague site lately ming? The gameleague forum is completely dead. How is it cheating to **** around on a ladder nobody plays?

Whatever, I'm not going to get angry over this. You've been warned and eventually you'll find out just as I did. As long as he can't play on ladders, that's fine with me. If he cheats players on apolyton that isn't of any concern to me. I don't play the game anymore so I'm not going to lose any sleep over someone cheating some apolyton brats in a dead game.

[Ming]

Originally posted by EyesOfNight
I don't play the game anymore so I'm not going to lose any sleep over someone cheating some apolyton brats in a dead game.

As I explained over ICQ... If he cheats with our group (which is easy to catch, tedious, but easy) he just won't be allowed to play in the group anymore...

And as far as the game being "dead"... we still have a strong group of players who play on a regular basis... with NEW people still joining up. It may be dead to you, but not us.

We will probably be playing Civ II MP until Civ III MP comes out (assuming that Civ III MP is any good... a big assumption )

[Frank Johnson]

Ming you have my permission to make mentioning gameleague a banable offense.

[Spartan_RawB]

Eyes, I couldn't agree with Ming more on this one. Civing may be dead to you, and it was dead for you a long time ago when you decided to get into a different kind of "gaming" (one that involves pissing people off, cheating, etc. etc.) rather than just enjoying and appreciating the game as it is.

Civ 2 has a certain enduring quality to it. The reason is that there is simply no other game out there that will fill its niche, pure and simple. No other game offers the balance, the complexity, and the fun luck-element of MPG, and that's a fact. For me, civing will live on and I will continue to play it until Meiers et al truly come up with something better.

[Ming]

Originally posted by Frank Johnson
Ming you have my permission to make mentioning gameleague a banable offense.

ROTFLMAO...
Hmmm... maybe that isn't such a bad idea

[DrFell]

'A cheater calling somebody else a cheater... you just have to love it. You reported wins you didn't earn... That's cheating, pure and simple. Your reasoning for doing so doesn't make it OK...

'

The ladder is dead, I tried to resurrect it at one point after cf shut down, but the interest wasn't there. The last game was played months ago, the last one before that months before, the number of members has dropped down to the minimum before they stop getting removed for inactivity (ie noone checks there anymore). There have been only a few posts on the forum in months, a lot of people don't even look there anymore. The site is as dead as it's going to be, I just think it's justice of some sort to take Kuja off the top because he cheated so much getting there. By the way, after I reported the games I wasn't top. I had no intention of going top.

'And then your last point is even funnier... Eyes cheated less, so it's not as bad...
'

Well, if you think about it, it isn't. Cheating a couple times ever (even if done in a league, which they weren't) vs. cheating hundreds of times to get to the top of a ladder, coming back under several names (after banning) and each time denying the previous identity, and cheating under each one, in both fun games and league.

'Plus, you are only talking about the times they have been "Caught" cheating... not the number of times they may have cheated.'

Kuja's been caught cheating so many times, it's likely that it's a regular habit of his. My post was only touching the surface, as I said.

'This is great for entertainment value...'

Hehe, glad too see you're enjoying the show.

[Ming]

Originally posted by DrFell
Hehe, glad too see you're enjoying the show.

How can I not enjoy the show... Nothing funnier than watching the "fallout between thieves"

[War4ever]

actually this is one of the funnier episodes of "ladder TV" brought to you by our sponsors "the Apolyton Civilization Site"

Ming has hit the nail on the head .......

You guyz ALL have cheated or been caught for cheating at one point or another allegedly.

Eyes you have had so many monickers on poly, zone, and icq...i am sure you have had many ladder names as well.

true you still get a bad rep for the stunts you have pulled 3 years ago....but i am willing to believe that a man as talented as yourself has pulled the wool over the eyes of some noobs and/or some other unsuspecting players since then as well You have revolutionized the way the game was played so many times that i am sure you have had "tactics" which you used and no one else new about.

Dr. Fell, i hear your a great player, if your so good, why do you cheat ever? Once bitten , twice shy..... great players cheat in SP to "learn" what works and doesnt' so they can use it later in MP.
MP is about matching ones wits with another human, not about cheating someone out of their enjoyment of the game. It leaves such a hollow victory.

Now , i have played EON and Kuja before, neither of them cheated against me.....either that or i just couldn't detect it.....

Carry on though boys....these episodes are far more interesting than the old episodes or EON, Markus, Strat, and Co.....

doctored saves, text edits, premade maps, seen starting locations, we have a drama on our hands....

*Programs here! Get your programs here!*

*sells first one to Ming*

[Ming]

The good thing is... "ladder TV" can be found on multiple channels

Don't miss the rest of the show now appearing at:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=41924

The entertainment never stops

[DrFell]

'Dr. Fell, i hear your a great player, if your so good, why do you cheat ever? Once bitten , twice shy..... great players cheat in SP to "learn" what works and doesnt' so they can use it later in MP.
MP is about matching ones wits with another human, not about cheating someone out of their enjoyment of the game. It leaves such a hollow victory.'

I never cheated in game before. The only 'cheating' I've done before was reporting on the league, which is now dead anyway, to take Kuja off no1 after he was found to be cheating regularly. Robbie would have you think otherwise though, according to him I'm the scum of the Earth, doctoring saves, lying, and trying to drive poor innocent Robbie and friends from the civ world. I just think you should all know the truth before he gets carried away with himself.

[Spartan_RawB]

Fell remarks:
"...according to him I'm the scum of the Earth, doctoring saves, lying, and trying to drive poor innocent Robbie and friends from the civ world."

Dang. I couldn't have put it better myself!

[Dank]

The live show is so much better.............go to the zone and see!!!!!!!

[CANNON FODDER]

"da da da da da its dirty laundry"

[rah]

Slightly off topic here, but the audience is probably appropriate.

As the host of quite a few games, the last few weeks, I've started to see something weird happen. During a players turn I will get a alert box on the screen that mentions contact with another civ. "it flashes so fast, I can't tell for sure what it says."
As with any contact, I quickly scanned the screen to see if there are any enemy units on top of a city that I might have to respond to. But I don't see any units, so I wonder if it's a diplo or some other 2x movement unit that has used it's second movement point to back off so I can't see it. BUT when I look at the foreign screen, I haven't made conact with that civ. STRANGE. I first saw this a couple of time a few years ago. But hadn't seen it since. But this weekend it happened a few times.

Has anyone experienced this before? Does anyone have an explanation for it? I'd hate to think with all this talk of cheating, that I'd have to get suspicious again.


AND finally on-topic. Just another reason why I refuse to enter serious competition. It's all about fun.

RAH