Proposal : FreeAC

[Blake]

What is free SMAC? A hypothetical project, in the same vein as FreeCiv, devout fans of SMAC (initially from Apolyton-AC) would get together and make a new, free version of SMAC, exactly how they want it.
(Of course, the SMAC name probably couldn’t be used, or at least the SM part, so the name could be ‘FreeAC’)
Great! I'm in, take me to the signup thread

Could it be done?

Should it be done?

How should it be done?

Some *thoughts.
There are about a dozen ‘Free Civ’ style projects going on, but I can’t recall even a whisper concerning making a ‘FreeAC’. Which doesn’t seem right.
Undoubtedly, the SMAC community lacks none of the skills, talent and creativity required for a ‘Free SMAC’ project (of those, the most likely to be absent is the skills, the Creation and Fiction forums show plenty of talent and creativity of the same caliber
as in the game itself).

So, is the only thing missing motivation?

Motivation: There is no guarantee, perhaps even possibility, of Firaxis making a ‘SMAC2’. Meanwhile, there have been plenty of threads regarding SMAC2, or just plain old SMAC, and the failings of SMAC are pretty well known now. There are plenty of ideas about what should be added to SMAC.
So, if we want a perfect SMAC, the best way would be to make it ourselves.
Of course, it would not be easy, and would require plenty of dedication from a group of players with a wide range of skills.
It would have to be done right, starting with what we like from SMAC, and adding features that build on that. All the time following good software engineering practices (like OO design – this is to ensure it does not end up rubbish).
And, it would have to be better than SMAC, (at least strategically), aiming to make a poor cousin would be pointless.

Some Design (brief)
Map
It would have to have a 3D or pseudo 3D map. The graphics don’t have to be spectacular, but they do have to be functional, and the map needs to be at least as complex as the SMAC one (variable heights, rainfall, rockiness, a couple of Terraforming layers, etc).
This would require work from:
Designers: To get the design right.
Coders: To code it (Not too difficult, there are many free graphics/game libraries around which would make the task easier)
Artists: Several dozens basic tiles would have to be made. A good 3D renderer could make the task quite easy. (that is, an external program to render the tiles, not an internal 3D renderer – although full 3D would be possible it would also have higher hardware requirements and be more complicated to program).

This part would not be that hard. Isometric tile based games are common. A number use the same isometric variable height tiles as SMAC. I think the map would look best with stronger coloring and shading than in SMAC. A nice addition would be to make it possible to rotate the map (if such an addition could be justified).
Stuff such as climate model and so on is a bit harder, but it would be quite possible to start with a very simple model.

UI / GUI:
A shatload of work for the coders – and difficult to get right. One of the hardest parts. The GUI would presumably be more minimal than the SMAC one, of course this allows more of the map to be on-screen at once. (Although the little quick-stats box is very cool, and wouldn’t be too hard to program). Most of the UI would probably be through keyboard shortcuts and the mouse, although a context sensitive right-click menu cant be ruled out.
A lot of thought has to go into the GUI, making information accessible and minimizing the amount of steps required to do what you want.

Units:
Graphics: The easiest way to do this is sprite-based units, like in Civ2. With a good third party library support could be built in for animated units – but this is a lot more work for the artists.
Design: Obviously, the unit workshop has to be kept. The way of drawing the units on the map may have to be different to make life easier for the artists, but it could easily be done so the Chassis/Weapon/Special abilities could be determined visually.
Combat: Stacked movement and combat – this probably does mean out with the ‘armor’ attribute of units. This would be replaced with ‘range’ and a number of special abilities.
Of course, this is entirely a good thing, the archaic throwbacks to Civ2 should be eliminated as a matter of principle.

Bases:
Basically the same as in SMAC, much consideration has to go into areas such as population model, facilities, Wonders, production, research, etc, etc.

Social Engineering:
Something similar to the SMAC SE.

Tech Tree:
Either the tried and true Civ method, or a more complicated model, many of which have been designed for various other free Civ type projects.

AI:
Quite possibly the hardest part.

What made SMAC great
Mostly, this is stuff like Book of Planet, the council, and just the factions.
Certainty, it would need SMAC style factions, and preferably lots of them, and preferably a nice faction design wizard.
And the ability to play with more than 7 factions would be a must.

Sound:
Sound will almost certainty be at a level way below SMAC, initially it will be quite minimal. Sound is no challenge to program, but it would be a lot of effort to make something equivalent to all the voiceovers etc from SMAC. So it could easily be limited to simple sounds (like unit move blip) and background midi music. Unless we get someone really dedicated to this area (iow, if it’s up to the coders, it’ll be blips and midi music)

Miscellaneous stuff:
Language: C++ making use of (free) third party graphics/game libraries. Every effort should be made to make the game cross platform, so it can run on Windows, Mac and Linux boxes. This is made easy by the use of libraries designed to be cross platform.
(My choice of game library would be Allegro, which is a mature game library which does pretty much everything and is free (both monetarily, and in allowing you to do whatever you want with the final product)).
The design will be very modular, to make it easier to make additions, fix bugs, etc

In short : Who / What we would need:

Coders (Programmers). They do the hardcore technical stuff.
Artists. People who are good at graphics a lot of work here, terrain, Terraforming, units, mug shots and a million and one miscellaneous graphics. Some of these could also be found on the internet or other sources.
Writers. Plot, blurbs, factions. Heaps of potential work here. Heaps of talent in AC-Fiction.
Designers. People without technical skills, but can do high level design and perhaps tell the coders what to do.
Beta Testers: It would help to be pedantic for this job. Ofc, others, especially the Coders are by default beta testers, but it helps to have those outside the design process play the game – coders are often blind to their own failings.
Suggestions.* Would always be welcome.

I’ve started a signup thread in AC-Creation – it’s by no means binding, if you think you might be able to help just post and say what you can do, and maybe how much time can be spared. If there is not enough support, we can just forget it. (I would rate “not enough support” as just me in a otherwise empty thread )

take me to the signup thread!

If you just have gerneral comments, suggestions or words of encouragement, post it here in this thread.

[TresXF]

nice idea - but what about the legal crap?

well, i announced FREE AC to our german speaking smac community .
maybe some ppl want to help

[Blake]

Legal crap?
Thats why I'm calling it 'FreeAC' rather than 'FreeSMAC'. (Alpha Centuria is the name of a star, after all).
Basically, avoid taking content directely from SMAC (and other games). Ofcourse, if a concept is used in many games then it would be fine to use (most names for stuff could be used).
No blatant stealing, more or less
If Firaxis or some other big name doesn't like something that we are doing, we apologise and humbly promise not to do it again.

Nothing has stopped all the 'FreeCiv' projects, so I assume the same will be true for FreeAC.

--- General replies to Signup thread... ---

Don't worry about the lack of coders (yet - anyway). A game of this size only needs a core of a couple of good programmers, if you have more they tend to just get in each others way (resulting in more bugs - and often slower progress). The use of reliable third party game libraries greatly reduces the time and effort required to write a game from scratch. What would be very usfull is a coder who is or has worked on a 'free civ' project.
Anyway, the coders only write the engine, it's the artists and the writers that make the content - which made SMAC a great game, rather than having the fanciest 3D graphics engine on the block.
Ofcourse, the coders also integrate all the content, but much of that stuff is less hardcore, often done through scripts or text files.

The more writers and 'ideas people' we have - the better, there is plenty of work to do, a good target would be 20 factions (aiming to be able to have 16 in play at once). Variety is great for diplomacy dialouge - even if your contribution is just a couple of witty diplomacy retorts it'll still be greatly appreciated (especially by the final players ). So there will be plenty of tasks big and small.

Graphics, well, as much effort will be put into the graphics as people are willing to make . There is all sorts of areas in the graphics, from terrain to units to icons to GUI components. The early versions will probably use stock graphics (ie, functional, but very bland) and fancier stuff can be added later.

Closey - hosting would be greatly appreciated, much of the discussion can take place at Apolyton (eventually in it's own forum), but a home will be needed for all the files.

Over the next couple of weeks I'm going to put considerable effort into writing a prototype game engine - hopefully enough to make 'FreeAC' qualify to have it's own forum at Apolyton.

For now, we'll just see what develops in these two threads (and considering the post count in just a few hours, over what is usually the quiet time in these forums...)

[Closey]

Originally posted by Blake
Legal crap?
Thats why I'm calling it 'FreeAC' rather than 'FreeSMAC'. (Alpha Centuria is the name of a star, after all).
Basically, avoid taking content directely from SMAC (and other games). Ofcourse, if a concept is used in many games then it would be fine to use (most names for stuff could be used).
No blatant stealing, more or less
If Firaxis or some other big name doesn't like something that we are doing, we apologise and humbly promise not to do it again.

Nothing has stopped all the 'FreeCiv' projects, so I assume the same will be true for FreeAC.

Yeah.. they shouldn't really have much to be upset with then, if it worked with FreeCiv it ought to work with FreeAC.

Closey - hosting would be greatly appreciated, much of the discussion can take place at Apolyton (eventually in it's own forum), but a home will be needed for all the files.

Ok, I'll start setting it up then. I'll get back to you with the specifics.

[TresXF]

Yeah.. they shouldn't really have much to be upset with then, if it worked with FreeCiv it ought to work with FreeAC.

not so sure... a few weeks ago a german fan-group was stopped by lawyers. the group worked out a german translation for the us-civ. (the release of an official translation was months to go). the project was canceled due to legal pressure...

the initiator wasn't firaxis - it was the publisher infogrames...

[Closey]

Originally posted by TresXF

not so sure... a few weeks ago a german fan-group was stopped by lawyers. the group worked out a german translation for the us-civ. (the release of an official translation was months to go). the project was canceled due to legal pressure...

the initiator wasn't firaxis - it was the publisher infogrames...

Ok, but that's still not really the same. They were changing the original Civ (my guess is that Infogrames wanted to be able to translate it themselves if they wanted to). FreeAC wouldn't actually have anything to do with SMAC really. I mean, it'd be new game with nothing copied straight from SMAC.

They can't really try to stop all games that are inspired from other games. I mean, there's been quite a few Civ clones since the first Civ game.

[Adalbertus]

Legal problems can arise if you use registered names or any data by Firaxis -- but this will not be a problem. Much tougher is the question about ideas: I don't think a direct clone (i. e. something that is indistinguishable from original SMAC, if you were to use the graphics and sounds from the original) would be legal, but it is also not needed, I think. Things would look much different, if the "not look but feel" is the same, but you added a much greater extensibility to your code, which I think would be one of the aims of the project. I think there were some lawsuits of Apple against Micro$oft at the cause of plagiarism. But there was much more money involved. Not that Apple invented graphical user interfaces or the use of a mouse. And I think the result was that the bigger money has won ... I think it's not serious but unfortunately there are lawyers who can make lots of money of such a BS.

About the project itself: How much would the thing differ from FreeCiv as not to use the FreeCiv engine as a basis? Add the height model SE, and the Unit workshop, and you are almost at SMAC? (OK, I forgot to draw different tiles ...)

I have only little contact with that project, but I got the impression that for several years now it is something 3/4 finished: You can play (MP is much easier to program than a good AI, IMHO), but the AI still is at the very basics.

[Kassiopeia]

Originally posted by Blake
Writers. Plot, blurbs, factions. Heaps of potential work here. Heaps of talent in AC-Fiction.

I'd love to assist if this thing flies. I have helped on a mod for AC, doing blurbs and other menial tasks, and I'd love to get my hands on the plot side.

[Blake]

There is a number of reasons not to use the FreeCiv engine:
1) It is written in C, not C++.
2) It is a Civ2 clone - combined with 1) this will result in a lot of unnecessary bloat code.
3) The map doesn't do exactly what we need.
4) It is window based (rather than full screen - I favor full screen because it is more immersive - although a 'full screen in a window' option will be available)

I'm not sure about the other Alternate Civ projects, but some may have potential. Personally, I think for the sake of consistent coding style it would be better to write the engine from scratch (making liberal use of libraries and 'borrowed' code where appropriate). Writing a isometric tile engine isn't too hard, there are heaps of tutorials and examples on the net


Anyway, here are the basic specs of the engine, as I envisage it:
Running in 640x480, 800x600, 1024x768, possibly higher, graphics modes, with 800x600 the default (where things look best).
Using 16bit hi-color mode, but all the image files will be in 256 color paletted mode in pcx format (they don’t need to all use the same palette)
Using full screen mode, with possibility to run in a window. Fully integrated HUD

No Limits: (Other than available memory)
The maps will be able to be BIG. At least 128*256 will be ‘officially’ supported anyway (SMAC huge map is 64*128). One possibility is subdivided tiles for greater landscape detail, so every tile (which a unit/base sits on) might be divided into 4 mini tiles. I think that could be cool. (Thoughts?)
Eventually the map will look SMAC-ish, but I think it would be better more colorful with stronger shading to suggest hills and stuff. But the 3D stuff is quite tricky, so initially it will just be flat land and flat ocean, but with a ‘height’ variable (which would still effect stuff like solar panels, and where you can drill boreholes), and initially shading as a visual indicator of the height. (the visual 3Dness, is purely cosmetic, and so not a high priority)
(Note, it would be possible to write a windows version of the game to make use of Direct3D for the graphics, which would result in some very nice looking terrain, and moderate speed improvements)


Unlimited units in play.
Split into armies which will be able to hold an arbitrary chosen number of units, the main consideration being the interface for viewing and modifying the contents of the army.
Army combat: Initially this will just be some sort of mathematics which determines who wins. But it will be designed to make the addition of a detailed combat model & viewer easy. (After army combat a message would go to the message box, with the results of the combat, and possibly a link to watch the combat – this would have obvious function in PBEM MP)

Unlimited bases: (Limited by tiles on the map )
These could include Land, Sea-Platform / Undersea / Mobile(?) / Flying(?) bases.

Unit design slots will have an artificial limit. There will be no hard limit.
(For example, the limit might be arbitrarily set to 10 unit designs ‘in production’ with a limitless number of obsolete, or there might be some other method like having to pay to have more unit design slots – the SMAC method of having about 63 slots, and crapping out when it was full needs some serious revision)

A hard limit of 32 special abilities. (which could be doubled to 64 – but I suspect 32 will be more than enough)

Facilities *may* be limited to 32 – but there may be no limit. It depends on a number of factors…
(One of these factors is the detail required. For example the simplest method is to just set a single byte to ‘TRUE’ if the base has the certain facility, but if you want to include details like the age of facilities, or the ability for facilities to become damaged by bombardment and become less effective then a more complex storage method is needed – in the first case the facilities will be best limited to 32 (for efficiency purposes) in the latter case there is no need for any limits)

A hard limit of 32 Factions in play, with the GUI being designed to support 16 players in play at once (i.e. the council screen would have slots for 16 mug-shots). Don’t quote me on 16 though – it may turn out 14 or 18 factions fit better on screen. Additional faction slots could be used by wildlife or other non-player factions.

Limitless Factions (or, limited by HDD space ): Factions will be made much the same way as in SMAC, although there should be support for default graphic sets. A good target would be 20 ‘official’ factions with the final release.

That's pretty bare-boned specs, pretty much anything not mentioned still needs to be designed (including a lot of technical stuff like file formats)

[Sikander]

I'm not volunteering to help do anything, since I lack most of the skills required. But I do have an idea or two.

Firstly as you suggest we should break once and for all with the Civ combat engine. It sucks, it sucked when it came out and it sucks more now. Armies are definitely the way to go. Armies are led by leaders, and contain units. Armies are assigned areas of operation and missions. An army's area of operation would be a function of the movement of it's slowest unit, so that it could operate within a radius more or less of it's current location. Air units would be given specific individual missions, and one of these missions might be to support the operations of a given army, while another might be an air superiority mission over a given area. Ships and fleets would operate in a similar fashion.

Leaders would have various attributes, and these attributes might be modified by faction. Thus Spartan leaders might have +1 to their maneuver rating or whatever. The time scale should be kept at one year per turn, and during the turn interphase armies could be created, units transferred in and out and missions assigned. Then the fun begins, as the outcomes of these often conflicting missions are determined by the AI in the conbat engine. I would shoot for a completely multiplayer game rather than trying to build an AI worthy of human competition, a task apparantly beyond the capabilities of teams of professionals. With simultaneous turns a multiplayer game would be that much more viable.

More needs to be done with satellites, space stations and orbital combat. It seems like these elements were cut back a bit in order to get SMAC in under the wire. It would be cool to flesh this out a bit.

I love to terraform, but it needs to be toned down somewhat, especially raising terrain and the like. Psi warfare should be beefed up a bit to keep things interesting.

Well, that's it for now. Good luck.

[Closey]

Originally posted by Sikander
I'm not volunteering to help do anything, since I lack most of the skills required. But I do have an idea or two.

Well, good ideas are helping too.

I love to terraform, but it needs to be toned down somewhat, especially raising terrain and the like. Psi warfare should be beefed up a bit to keep things interesting.

Hmm.. why should terraforming be toned down..? I myself wouldn't mind seeing more of it (but that doesn't mean that the combat part shouldn't/couldn't be expanded too tho)

Oh yeah, Blake, I've set up a small simple page for the project (the only thing there as of now is pretty much a forum) It's at http://www.blind-mind.com/freeac/ I'll get the domain name for it in a while. (When things like the name are final)

And yeah.. There'll be more things on the site.. when there's more things to put there..

[Sprayber]

Maybe someone could give those who wish to write the blurbs and factions makeups some kind of idea about what is expected. Just to start the wheels turning so to speak.

Is it the same general timeline we are talking about.

Will there be a different set of events that lead to going to Chiron.

Perhaps mulitiple ships being sent.

Maybe different forms of alien life.

Different leaders most likely.

Maybe not all contact with Earth has been lost?

[big_canuk]

For the factions, how about a faction builder, like in stars!. You would have a certain number of points, to spend how you like building the faction of your choice. Each attribute would have a certain cost. These costs could be modified by the global comunity over time, to ensure balance.

[Adalbertus]

Two things please:
- You are not pressed by shareholders, so take yourself time to think and make a good design, take time to fix bugs
- An AI which doesn't cheat. For me, it's one of the most frustrating things in a game (and the permission to cheat myself ...)

About the FreeCiv engine I thought mainly about saving some time, but C - C++ is a strong argument, if it comes to games. OK, at work I use C++ mainly to have a consistent implementation of complex numbers, written myself because I seriously distrust the speed of what is possibly implemented in templates (as gcc does), and for me, speed is an issue ... And I hate FORTRAN

I would love to see that one can turn your game into the best historic Civ game we ever had. Calling something a particle impactor or crossbow is only a matter of texts and graphics.

[Blake]

Originally posted by Sprayber
Maybe someone could give those who wish to write the blurbs and factions makeups some kind of idea about what is expected. Just to start the wheels turning so to speak.

I think the best idea is if people have a good idea for plot they just post it, if we get several (good) conflicting potential plots it goes down to a vote.

What I think (and I wont be writing any story to go with it ) is multiple colony ships got sent by earth, by anyone with the means and motivation. This started when it was realised (first by people in high places) that Earths biosphere was slowly collapsing under the weight of humankinds burgeoning population. So the extra-solar colonisation drive was started.

Factions could arrive in a number of ways, on their own colony ship, on a joint colony ship (like the unity), they could breakaway from an existing faction at some stage in the game....

This would result in an even greater range of potential ideologies. Additionaly, because this is our game we can include things like uniqe victory conditions for different factions.
We can include really radical factions, like robots or replicators (imagine a faction where you had to build population).

So, if you want to design a faction, just go ahead and design it 'in English'. If your wondering if something will be possible, just go ahead and add it, most likely it can be coded

Another thing which needs to be done is a full tech tree, one early tech-line I think would be good is 'Biofuels' (probably comprised of two techs).

Sikander, some great ideas there. I agree with most of it.
(regarding terraforming, unrealistic stuff like large scale land raising needs to be toned down, but we can add things like bridges, canals etc, if we want.)

For the factions, how about a faction builder, like in stars!.

Always good to see another who knows about Stars! , I think a faction editor like the race wizard in Stars! would be an excellent addition. I'm not sure about an integrated one though - that sort of feature would have to wait until much later. (mainly because new faction abilities will be coded as the factions are designed...). Altough some sort of built in rating in the faction editor would be good, if only as a guide.

- An AI which doesn't cheat. For me, it's one of the most frustrating things in a game (and the permission to cheat myself ...)

hmmm. Can't promise that. If it does cheat, it will be an option, and any cheating will be made as transparent as possible.

Closey: I like the web site so far
But what does one do to make posts in the forum!
It'd be good to set the forum up properly for discussion, there are a few topics which need to be discussed, and decisions made as early as possible...
It might be a good to have it moderated too, with threads for current discussions, and an ideas / suggestions thread and ofcourse a welcome thread.

[Closey]

Originally posted by Blake Closey: I like the web site so far
But what does one do to make posts in the forum! :unbanned:
It'd be good to set the forum up properly for discussion, there are a few topics which need to be discussed, and decisions made as early as possible...
It might be a good to have it moderated too, with threads for current discussions, and an ideas / suggestions thread and ofcourse a welcome thread.

Uhm.. well.. I did actually add some Forums, and you're supposed to be able to post. Hold on and I'll check.

uhm.. *notices the time* actually.. I'll look into it while at work tomorrow.. I think I could use the few hours worth of sleep I'd get if I go to bed now. Sorry about this, I'll have it working tomorrow. (That's probably what I get for doing things while too tired )

[Sikander]

My main problem with SMAC's current terraforming is that for the most part it doesn't take into account the effects of the terraforming on the Planet as a whole. Thus you can raise terrain until the sea disappears (where is the earth coming from to do this?), or build thousands of square miles of condensors without effecting the humidity / rainfall anywhere else. There are too many free lunches. Anything which can be supported with a realistic argument, even one based upon future technologies which seem reasonable is fine.

For instance I could see lowering terrain in one place and raising it in another. You could level your whole continent and take the earth and use it to raise the sea floor until you had a larger but lower altitude continent. Of course you would reduce the surface area of the sea, which might impact the amount of water in the atmosphere, and thus the raininess of squares somewhere on planet.

[Closey]

Originally posted by Sikander
My main problem with SMAC's current terraforming is that for the most part it doesn't take into account the effects of the terraforming on the Planet as a whole. Thus you can raise terrain until the sea disappears (where is the earth coming from to do this?), or build thousands of square miles of condensors without effecting the humidity / rainfall anywhere else. There are too many free lunches. Anything which can be supported with a realistic argument, even one based upon future technologies which seem reasonable is fine.

Ok, yeah good point. I've always wondered where all that extra dirt used to make new mountains came from. Yeah, terraforming really need to be based on something that makes it more realistic (but that doesn't say that I don't want even more things to do to the planet) There ought to be quite a few more methods that could be added. I wagely recall an old thread about different terraforming methods and I think there were quite a few good ideas in there. Several inspired by the Mars trilogy written by Kim Stanley Robinson.

Oh yeah, the FreeAC forums are up and running now. And now you can even access them and post in them..

[Kassiopeia]

How about getting up a specific thread dedicated to plot-based brainstorming?

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by Blake

Factions could arrive in a number of ways, on their own colony ship, on a joint colony ship (like the unity), they could breakaway from an existing faction at some stage in the game....

This would result in an even greater range of potential ideologies. Additionaly, because this is our game we can include things like uniqe victory conditions for different factions.
We can include really radical factions, like robots or replicators (imagine a faction where you had to build population).

.

You brought up a really cool point. I have heard many suggest how cool it would be to have it to where if certain conditions were met, a new faction could spring up from an already established one. It looks like everyone has their work cut out for them.

[Blake]

Closey, would it be possible to have longer posts on your forum?
(yeah, it would have to be me that asks... )

Anyway, hop over to the new forum and read this thread... it's rather important and feedback would be valuable (either post in the new forum, or here...)

[Blake]

There is heaps of stuff to write, short stories like the Book of Planet reports would be good. If you write about events, places, techs, factions, victories, the-particullary-voilent-discharge-from-weaponX, etc then they can be coded in Unlike SMAC writing you don't need to write about an existing thing or event, unleash your creativity and let your imagination run wild... (or something )
Details like fancy codewords that insert the appropriate names into the story can be handled later, placeholder names like 'Bob', 'Leader', 'Underling' could be used for now.

It'd also be good to come up with placenames, weapon names, etc in the text, because they can then be used in the game. (seriously, don't count on the coders to come up with any good names for these things)

Anyway, dont wait for someone to tell you what to write - just write

And yeah, a writers forum is definitely needed.

[Kassiopeia]

Goody goody.

placeholder names like 'Bob', 'Leader', 'Underling' could be used for now.

The sketches might turn out to be a lot of fun with the placeholder names

(seriously, don't count on the coders to come up with any good names for these things)

[Closey]

Originally posted by Blake
Closey, would it be possible to have longer posts on your forum?
(yeah, it would have to be me that asks... )

Probably.. I'll check it out right away

[edit] Three times as long? Would that be enough? I could make them even longer tho if you feel that you need more space..

uhm.. oh yeah.. they're visible too.. the forums that is..

[Blake]

Allright guys, if you havn't yet head over to our new forums, register and get posting.

Forum Index

A welcome thread

Climate Model

A thread on Terraforming and the raise terrain problem.

Random ideas and gibberish.

Proposal for a new Victory type (It's positively evil )

Some tech tree ideas

Last but not least, are we Civ'ing or are we MOOing.

[korn469]

so any updates on the project? any thoughts about adding in a few of the better ideas (like armies and resources) from civ3? it sounds interesting though, i just hope everyone hasn't lost interest in it

[Jac de Molay]

I think there should be more terra-forming options no matter how "un-realistic" it may be. The ability to shape Planet has always added a nice strategic element to the game.

As far as original plot, I was thinking along the lines of a comet striking the earth like the one that killed off dinosaurs, and it would transmute earth's ecosystem, causing new, agressive and dangerous life forms to arise. The "factions", as it were, would represent various shadow societies left in the wake(of course representing differing ideologies).

Also liked a lot the previous idea of faction workshop.

Dave

[Blake]

Lost interest? Hardly.

Armies: From Civ3? You gotta be joking. We will be using CTP2 style armies.
Resources are a definite possibility, but wont function exactly like in Civ3, rather they'll make it possible to build certain things slightly cheaper, or allow construction of extra facilities. For example the uranium resource allows the construction of one nuclear powerplant which increases production in all mines/boreholes @ base by +50%.

We have a fantastic climate model in the works, making all facets of terraforming more realistic, with more tradeoffs. You wont nessecarly have any more terraforms but they will have a much greater impact on the climate, so shaping the world is something you'll be able to do on grand scale.

Our storyline is quite generic, earth starts dying from overpopulation. Colonisation drive is started. Anyone with the means starts launching space ships to other planets de da de da. Earth dies.

We will be using a "Non-Player" faction system for easily adding native life, barbarians, neutrals etc. You'll have a great deal of freedom in setting up your world.

We also have a new forum: http://www.freeac.org/cgi-bin/ib3/ikonboard.cgi

[Blake]

Speaking of Civ3. There is very little in Civ3 worth stealing. Virtually all the "innovation" *cough*cough**splutter* was in fancy animations & art. In fact there was no innovation worth speaking off.
THe only part of Civ3 with any real merit is the faction diplomacy/trading table thing, and that seems to me to be less fun than the SMAC diplomacy style. But VERY worthwhile looking at in a multiplayer context (SMAC uses something almost identical in IP MP games)