Technology ideas

Jer8m8 · December 3, 2000, 16:41

I think that (having never played TOT, I don't know if they have this) the chart of advances in MPGE makes it too easy. My idea would be to research a catagory, and you would get random techs per age. If you were researching the "Medicine" catagory in the ancient age, you might get "Herbal treatments," but not "Cure for Cancer"(which should be a tech that gives the benefits of the wonder). The topics might not always be accurate-at the beginning you could be researching Military/spears, but discover "bows" in the process. In this way, it would be more of a surprise and more challenging

DarkCloud · December 3, 2000, 17:10

Hopefully since this was in Alpha Centauri it will also be in Civ III.

Dauphin · December 3, 2000, 20:27

I guess it depends on how much control over science you want. For example Nuclear bomb research doesn't have a lot of scope to research other stuff.

Edited cos it made no sense.
[This message has been edited by Big Crunch (edited December 04, 2000).]

Jer8m8 · December 4, 2000, 19:50

I have not played Alpha Centuri

About with Nuclear tech, etc-The catagories might eventually become specific like "Nuclear developments"
You might get the tech for nuclear devices spies plant, tech for long range weapons, tech for bomber size weapons, tech for nuclear power plants, tech for spaceships, etc. As you acquire certain techs or build certain wonders (MP's embassy-you can see what others have developed) the catagories will become more specific.

DarkCloud · December 4, 2000, 23:14

From Alpha C you could research these catagories:

Conquer
Discover
Explore
Build

it might be nice if it got more specific, as you suggest, however.

Shadowstrike · December 5, 2000, 18:48

I dunno. I played AC, but I though that this concept wasn't really that good.... its drops strategy in place of "realism" which isn't even that real due to the fact that all the concepts were "out of the blue" but you got the same ones every time.

weird god · December 5, 2000, 21:25

quote:

Originally posted by Jer8m8 on 12-03-2000 03:41 PM"Herbal treatments,"

mmmmmh, sounds goooooood

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mankind made alcohol, god made weed.....whom do you trust?

weed god, chief of EUROPA
[This message has been edited by weird god (edited December 05, 2000).]

Diablo, Bro. of Mephisto · December 6, 2000, 00:03

from what i understand, i agree, but i dont fully understand??? could try to explain it a little better?

airdrik · December 6, 2000, 00:17

quote:

from what i understand, i agree, but i dont fully understand??? could try to explain it a little better?

I may not be the author, but I think I know how it goes(correct me if I'm wrong in anything):

When chooseing what to research you can research medicine, weaponry, armory, diplomacy, etc. and you gain random advances in those catagories. As well, when you take another unit you gain a bonus when researching techs that lead to the discovery of that unit (you take a phalanx unit, you gain a bonus in bronze working, or you capture a musketeer, you gain bonuses in those techs leading to gunpowder).

When you take an enemy's city you gain bonuses to techs leading to some of that city's improovements that you don't know how to build. You also gain one of that civ's techs that you don't have.

Jer8m8 · December 6, 2000, 08:20

quote:

Originally posted by airdrik on 12-05-2000 11:17 PM
I may not be the author, but I think I know how it goes(correct me if I'm wrong in anything):

It sounds about right. And also, it might get to a point where there will only be one or two technologies in a catagory. When this is the case, it will be very similar MPGE.

Dauphin · December 6, 2000, 14:17

quote:

gives a lot more realism. After all, how can you choose to research the wheel when you don't even know what a wheel is, or research gunpowder when you don't even know what gunpowder is.

True, but lets say you discover the tech Atomic Physics. You then have loads of people saying, hey this is a great thing for a weapon or power plants. Research then would go into developing something that you have control over. Similar cases exist for combustion and steam engines - you pretty much decide if you want to develop engines for cars, boats etc. Stealth planes and supersonic flight are pre-determinable scientif avenues. A lot of the time you know generally what you want to study and its usually a narrow field. Accidental discoveries happen but are more a spark than a be all and end all.

Ancient world techs are less specific. What I would like to see is a tech like Invention which gives you more control over what you research. Remember it changes from Wise Men to Scientists in Civ2.

airdrik · December 7, 2000, 00:00

Definetally, over time you would have more control over what kinds of things you can aim at researching, but there is always some randomness to what techs you gain.

airdrik · December 7, 2000, 01:51

Yay, I got it right

.

Anyway, I like the idea, I think it's a good idea. gives a lot more realism. After all, how can you choose to research the wheel when you don't even know what a wheel is, or research gunpowder when you don't even know what gunpowder is.

jdlessl · December 7, 2000, 03:46

In that case the tech tree would have to become more detailed. Having random techs popping up all the time wouldn't have worked too well in Civ2; each one carries too much power and ability. If techs were scaled down to a lot of minor advances, then something like this would be more feasible. For instance, instead of having 1 tech to allow musketeers and another to get riflemen, you'd put in an abundance of techs that improve their stats slightly. Things like drill, bayonets, breech loading, cylindrical-conical bullets and so forth. Evolution rather than revolution.

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Jared Lessl

Grumbold · December 7, 2000, 10:34

I'd love evolutional rather than revolutional technologies if the game could support such complexities. It always annoys me that the "tank" for example remains the same unit from 1915 through to 2015. This would fit well with a more distributed research pattern where a nation can (must) be progressing toward several new ideas simultaneously.

One slant that I believe would be particularly interesting would be the need to be at war or peace to progress certain technologies efficiently. Even more harsh, some attributes would be completely blocked from certain nationalities (at random). The science of war has always advanced far faster in times of strife. The wheel was invented by the incas but unly ever used for toys. The ancient chinese discovered gunpowder hundreds of years before the West but did not develop it further into advanced weapons.

This might encourage a more volatile state of play rather than the tired race to achieve a stable, peaceful pro-science government type and stay there until a massive technological advantage has been achieved.

Ribannah · December 7, 2000, 10:41

quote:

Originally posted by airdrik on 12-06-2000 12:51 PM
Yay, I got it right

.

Anyway, I like the idea, I think it's a good idea. gives a lot more realism. After all, how can you choose to research the wheel when you don't even know what a wheel is, or research gunpowder when you don't even know what gunpowder is.

Of course the new advances were NAMED later, but they were the results of focus nonetheless. The prerequisites have to make that clear, however.

For The Wheel Civ2 says: "hey, we can ride horses now, let's see if we can have them pull something, too"
and after some experimenting (sledges) they came up with something round. Not too bad, although in reality The Wheel was probably invented by potters.

As to Gunpowder, Invention plus Iron Working is indeed not very explanatory. IMHO a better prerequisite would be Alchemy (with Engineering).

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If you have no feet, don't walk on fire

Jer8m8 · December 7, 2000, 12:51

This is just a random comment semirelated as to how to gain technologies. Lets say you are the English, and you bribe a German tank (you don't have the tech). If you bring it in to a city, you can have scientists research it. After x turns (2?) they will announce that they have or have not figured it out. This will allow you to build a "prototype" tank in that city. If you build before something like a revolution happens (lose some techs) you will get a tank technology. Your scientists will announce "We were not able to reproduce the wheels as on the German tank, but we improved the gun" It will then show the stats of the German tank, say 5a/5d/5m, and then show the stats of your tank, say 6a/5d/4m. This will give you an "English tanks" tech. If you discover/find/capture the prerequisits used on the German tank, you may have your scientists re-examine the tank and possibly discover "German tanks"

airdrik · December 7, 2000, 23:17

quote:

Originally posted by Ribannah on 12-07-2000 12:25 PM
A bit of UFO: Enemy Unknown in Civ?

I don't think it would contribute much. By the time your scientists are finished you will probably have researched the tech yourself. Or you will have stolen it with the same diplomat or spy that bribed the unit.

He does have a point there, but it could work the way he described if you were to 'capture' a german tank in battle without destroying the tank itself, then you could take it and research it.

Ribannah · December 8, 2000, 01:25

A bit of UFO: Enemy Unknown in Civ?

I don't think it would contribute much. By the time your scientists are finished you will probably have researched the tech yourself. Or you will have stolen it with the same diplomat or spy that bribed the unit.

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If you have no feet, don't walk on fire