ExtraPack Finalization Project (Part 7: Units)

[godinex]

....

[hetairoi22]

How about this for the Nao (actually it is a Spanish ship from around Colombus' time, but ohwell...)?

[hetairoi22]

Here's an image of a Kuboksun ("Turtle Ship"):


(From yin26's thread about Korea.)

[hetairoi22]

There are lots of pictures on this Spanish page here. Anyone who can speak Spanish (I can't) should check this out and see if the pics are of any use to us.

[godinex]

EHHHHHHHHH! Thanx!
I will see the page.

[hetairoi22]

You can find a nice animated mounted archer here:

Mounted Archer (by Kryten)

[Harlan]

A person named jimmyh is in the process of converting unit graphics from the Age of Kings and Age of Empires to Civ3. Most of the most wanted units on this thread should be made by him sooner or later, I'd imagine. I just asked him if he could do some of these. The Camel Rider is already done. Some of the more obscure things like the Mercava or Sun Warrior aren't doable from those games though.

AKAIK, he isn't doing the civilopedia text for the unit though - could someone here do that?

[Wernazuma III]

Thanks, I'm currently looking through his files to see what we could need.
As for the Civilopedia entries: That's a bunch of work we still got to do anyway. I'll write it for those I have some knowledge of and ask others to help me in this, but we should gather some unit graphics first...

I've downloaded the Camel Rider which can perfectly be used. I'm not sure about the others though. I'll keep looking!

[JamesJKirk]

I thought I'd list the proposed units again, and then list possible candidates that people made for the units with them, so we can get an idea of what's still needed:


Tercio (Spanish) replace Musket Man
Horse Archer (Mongols) replace Knight: Mounted Archer by Kryten
Camel Rider (Arabs) replace Knight: Camel Rider
Sun Warrior (Inca) replace Warrior
Drakkar (Vikings) replace Trireme
Janissary (Turks) replace Musket Man
Quinquireme (Phoenicians) replace Trireme
Balam Warrior (Mayans) replace Warrior
Woad Warrior (Celts) replace Warrior
Nao (Portuguese) replace Caravel
Ship of the Line (Dutch) replace Galleon
Mercava (Jews) replace Modern Armor
Hussar (Poles) replace Dragoon
Sarwe (Ethiopians) replace Spearman
Kobukson (Koreans) replace Frigate: Is a Chinese Junk close?
Phak'Ak Man (Khmer) replace Pikeman


In addition to the Camel Rider, there's an Arab Horseman here which I personally think is nicer looking and could be adopted to camel ridery.
I didn't find many more, but I didn't look that carefully either.
The link to the Hussar unit earlier is dead, which is a shame, because it looked real nice, I hope it's stilll out there somewhere

[Spiffor]

Whoah, quite a bunch of warriors in the list. I'd suggest the Celtic UU should be a swordsman, as the Celts used iron extensively during the Gaul wars. Maybe 3-2-2 (that's the only combination left for the swordsmen) or less expensive than normal swordsmen ?.

JamesJKirk :
AFAIK, a Chinese Junk isn't close : a Kobukson is an armored ship, slow but solid. The Chinese Junk I've seen on the froums (I think TVA22 made it) isn't armored at all, and looks rather like a civilian merchant ship

[JamesJKirk]

I just threw the junk in there because I really am uneducated when it comes to Asian history, and one of the pictures earlier showed a junk.
I agree about the Celts, they should have some sort of swordsman, it can keep the name Woad Warrior for all I care (although I agree that it sounds silly) but Celts are known for fierce swordsmanship not hitting people with clubs. Besides there needs to be more balance over the ages w/ UUs. I think it was a step in the right direction whoever suggested making the Hebrews have the Merkaba. Definitely more units are needed later in the game, or at least less Knights and Warriors!

Wernazuma: You put the Polish UU ask replacing Dragoons, but there're no Dragoons in the game, it goes from Knights to Cavalry, maybe you're using a modded version?

I forgot to mention earlier that although I know it'd be a horrible pain to extract CTPI/II units, there're some fanmade units out there that it might be possible to get the individual graphics from. I do recall that someone made a Nao unit.

[Harlan]

The AoK and AoE games really have a lot of stuff. One thing I remember seeing is some kind of Korean Turtle Ship, which I imagine is what is needed here. I don't actually have those games myself - is there anybody who does who could figure out the best matches with this list?

Now that you have units for two of the most requested civs, Mongols and Arabs, why not go ahead and make everything else needed to put those into the game? One can't do all the civs at once, so those two are a good place to start.

When I say "you", I'm not sure who I refer to, but people have been talking about this project for a long time - who's gonna put the wheel to the grindstone? (Not me, incidentally, but I'm trying to move things along cos I want to play with the mod when its done! )

[JamesJKirk]

Having never played any of those RTS games, I realize that their "prettiness" can be to our advantage. I did a little internet research, and realized that there're some even nice AOK units out there than the ones jimmyh has converted. The best ones come from the unique units in AOK and it's expansion conquerors. Many are the exact same units that were selected. I got all the following images from Gamespot previews

Mongol Mangudai:

[JamesJKirk]

Turkish Janissary:

[JamesJKirk]

Celt Woad Raider:

[JamesJKirk]

Viking longship

[JamesJKirk]

saracen mameluke

[JamesJKirk]

aztec jaguar warrior

[JamesJKirk]

korean turtle ship:

[JamesJKirk]

another one:

[JamesJKirk]

spanish conquistador (mounted, i know)

[JamesJKirk]

hussar

[JamesJKirk]

another

[JamesJKirk]

some more useful ones:

eagle warrior

[JamesJKirk]

plumed archer

[Wernazuma III]

Thanks, I'm sure those can help someone ( )who will do the units in the near future ( ). NTL, I think Koreans will be strongly against this "turtleship"...

[godinex]

And what happen with the mod?

[Scottskofski]

Polish "Hussar" besides origins has nothing in common with the Hungarian or Serbian Varient. The "Hussar" name should really be Husaria. These units where created in the 1500's and Lasted till the beggining of 1700's. They where argueable the best heavy cavalry in Europe at the time. Their lances where 5-7 Meters which tended to stretch longer then the 4 Meter Pikes. Armour was usally Made out of Steel, along with Sabers, and helmets. They are famouse for their wings. They had the best horses and a very versitile Saber. Many European nations attempted to Copy the Husaria. English "Lobsters", Austrian Dragoons, and Russian(Dont remember its name).

"The Cuirass worn by Husaria was 15 kg. It covered the most vital parts of the body. It was also made of steel which provided greater protection then that of the Europian knights who still used Iron armor but the Husaria only rarley wore leg armor which was obsolete at the time. The armor design was diferent too. Insteed of 1 cuirass it was one chest plate with 3-6 lames covering the stomach to the waist reinforced with a steel bar and ridge in the middle. The result a sturdy, light, and very protective armor. Only being 8mm thick it still could stop a musket-ball from 15-20 steps away and the backplate could stop a pistol shot at point-blank range. The reason they could charge was because their lances where hallow, horse breed, and a new type of saddle. I could go into more detail."

A few battles they fought in:

Kluszyn The hussars had a predominate role in the battle. Of the 6800 men in the Polish army in this battle, 5556 were hussars. However, their impact was not just a result of numbers. Some banners withdrew bloodied from the fight, but charged rank by rank again and again into the fray, by several reports, up to 8-10 times. This battle truly revealed the hussars’ elite status and combat value. If the hussars demonstrated enormous reliability and durability, they also showed their flexibility. They were able to overcome eastern cavalry (the Boyar and light cavalry of Muscovy), as well as the western reiters. They also overcame eastern and western infantry in spite of very adverse conditions. A small force of 6800 defeated 35,000 Russian and Foreign Mercenaries. The Husaria marched all night and still charged rank by rank firing pistols at their enemy then retreating to reload. Actually, the Muscovites got off quite easy. Usually bigger massacres happen in pursuit by victorious cavalry, but the Commonwealth forces showed good discipline and held formation until the Moscow army, and the threat it posed, dissolved. Then, the abundant loot in the camps distracted the Poles long enough to allow the fugitives to escape. The winners took great quantities of gold and silver, furs, hundreds of wagons and carriages. Trophies included several command flags and banners, extensive stocks of military equipment, and all 11 artillery pieces. The Poles took causualties of 100 Husars. 400 retaniers and infantry, 400 Horses. They where the best because they had no equal in Europe.

At Gniew (1656) 5,500 Polish cavalry defeated 13,000 Swedes

Kircholm (1605) 4,000 Poles accounted for 14,000 Swedes

outside Vienna (1683) the Husaria saved Europe from the, until then, unstoppable might of the Ottoman Empire.
In 1699, the remnants of the once mighty army of the
Commonwealth defeated the Tartars & Turks at Podhajce, the final engagement of the Poles with the Ottomans.

"Where the Husaria goes, so goes victory" was a quote made by a french observer.

Their training started from very young(about 3-4 yrs old) They had to be best horsemen, best fighters, best at pretty much everything. They bought the most expensive arms and armour.

"The pride and glory of the cavalry, its mailed first, was the Husaria, the winged cavalry. Operating in regiments of about 300, the front rank carried an astonishing lance of up to twenty feet in length (thus outreaching infantry pikes and allowing the Husaria to cut straight through an enemy square). They also carried a saber or rapier with a six - foot blade (another weapon which was unique to the Poles!), as well as a pair of pistols, a short carbine, a bow and arrows and a variety of other weapons, the most lethal of which was the "czekan", a long steel hammer which could go through heads and helmets like butter!
The ultimate weapon of the Husaria was psychological. As well as wearing helmets, thick steel breastplates and shoulder and arm guards the Husaria also wore wings; great wooden arcs bristling with eagle feathers attached to the back of the saddle or the shoulders. Over their shoulders they wore the skin of a tiger or leopard as a cloak. Their harnesses, saddles and horse-cloths were embroidered and embellished with gold and gems and their long lances were painted with stripes like a stick of rock and decorated with a five-foot-long silk pennant which, along with the wings and jingling jewelry, made a frightful sound (described as "an evil hiss" by some) and sight during the charge. They even sometimes painted their horses red and white!

Poland waged wars almost uninterruptedly, because there were many well trained troopers ready to join the ranks at any moment. Arvid Wittenberg, a Swedish General was once quoted as saying to his Swedish infantry :
"Make sure to repel the Polish advance, for if our ranks are unable to deflect their charge don't think about retreating, there will be nothing that saves us from their their charging horse.."

Husaria troops were part of the Polish and Lithuanian(Poland and Lithuania United in a Union 1500's) armies, the royal guards, the private armies of magnates and county armies. Each regiment was composed of companions with their retainers, or horsemen who made up the second rank. The most characteristic weapon of the husaria was a lance of 5 to 7 meter's in length, made of light elastic kinds of wood. It ended with a metal spearhead to which a two colour streaming pennant was attached, it's hiss and flutter startling enemy horses. Lances were very effective in particular against heavy western cavalry or Turkish Spahis, as well as western musketeers since they allowed
the husaria to cut straight through thick infantry and cavalry ranks. Only swift nimble Tartar horsemen had nothing to fear from the lances. A lance could be used only
once in the initial assault at full gallop, since on hitting the target, the armour clad body of the enemy, it broke in two. Having broken his lance against the chest of an
enemy, the companion or retainer drew out a more wieldy weapon, his tuck, which was a short, light sword, 1.5 to 1.8 meter's in length strapped to the saddle of
the rider's knee. Until the mid-17th century the bow with arrows was much appreciated because it was more quick-firing than any musket."

A webpage I contributed much too:
http://www.geocities.com/cossacksEW/wingedhussars1.html

[Scottskofski]

But The Husaria really doesnt fit into the Armies found in Civ 3. I suggest a 1919-1939 Style Ulan that would be a beefed up Cavalry unit Only able to get after Interchangable Parts with stats like 12 Attack 10 Defence 3 Movement. And not requiring Salt Peter but maybe Rubber?

[{Soldier}]

Not to be rude but Firaxis is coming out with the civ 3 expansion pack in october so y r u guys doing all this stuff when u could wait and have it pro'ly done in october...