1.17f Bug Reports - Page 8

star mouse · February 21, 2002, 20:49

Quote:

Originally posted by Willem
Well it seems to me that Marines aren't really the best choice to begin with. Rifleman would be much better.

Riflemen are defensive units, while Swordsmen, Longbowmen and Marines are all offensive units. The AI handles these types of units differently in battle. Changing the type of a unit from offensive to defensive when it is upgraded may cause problems for the AI.

What the game really needs though is a new offensive unit somewhere around the start of the Industrial era. The gap between Longbowmen (invention) and Marines (Amphibious Warfare) is the longest in the game.

Willem · February 21, 2002, 20:59

Quote:

Originally posted by star mouse

Riflemen are defensive units, while Swordsmen, Longbowmen and Marines are all offensive units. The AI handles these types of units differently in battle. Changing the type of a unit from offensive to defensive when it is upgraded may cause problems for the AI.

Why would the AI have problems with it? As soon as you upgrade, those units become defensive units, there's not going to be some sort of residual carry over. Defence will be the only option for the AI.

korn469 · February 21, 2002, 21:25

Quote:

Why would the AI have problems with it? As soon as you upgrade, those units become defensive units, there's not going to be some sort of residual carry over. Defence will be the only option for the AI.

well since an AI determines how well it is doing in a war partially by the number of offensive units it has, then this mean the AI could upgrade all of swordsmen to riflemen and then sue for peace because it suddenly thinks it's losing

Willem · February 21, 2002, 21:38

Quote:

Originally posted by korn469

well since an AI determines how well it is doing in a war partially by the number of offensive units it has, then this mean the AI could upgrade all of swordsmen to riflemen and then sue for peace because it suddenly thinks it's losing

And this is a bad thing?

PS. Besides, we all know that the AI doesn't upgrade anyway, so what's the difference?

notyoueither · February 21, 2002, 21:44

Quote:

Originally posted by Alxander
After disbanding a captured city by pop rushing a worker/setller, and then resettling a new city (with the same settler or one built from your civ) in or near the same spot as the civ you conquered your people are still crying about -the cruel opression you brought down on them, is this a bug? I find it really annoying that I disband a city to get rid of the unhappy people, only to find that when I resettle in the same spot on good land the people complain as if they were conquered?? Can someone explain to me if theres a logical reason for it or not?

Prolly a fix for the work camp exploit. The tyrrants would whip the pop till they were good and satisfied. Disband the city into a settler. Settle immediately in that same spot and have absolutely no carry-over of unhappiness.

I have not seen what you describe, but I like it if Firaxis did it. How would you like to live in a city founded on the bones of your ill-treated ancestors?

Salve

Willem · February 21, 2002, 22:08

Quote:

Originally posted by notyoueither

Prolly a fix for the work camp exploit. The tyrrants would whip the pop till they were good and satisfied. Disband the city into a settler. Settle immediately in that same spot and have absolutely no carry-over of unhappiness.

I have not seen what you describe, but I like it if Firaxis did it. How would you like to live in a city founded on the bones of your ill-treated ancestors?

Salve

And I'm sure those citizens wouldn't be to pleased about being forced out of their homes and made to resettle. I think if this actually is what's happening that it's a good game feature.

Corpus_Delicti · February 22, 2002, 01:19

One minor thing that has slipped through the patches : lakes still show up as "coast" if you right-click them and look at terrain info. As far as I can tell though, they work correctly otherwise (such as negating the need to build an aqueduct in a neighboring city).

Also, I didn't see the "Diplomatic victory" listed in the civlopedia - which is kind of funny, since the UN Wonder has a link to the victory section (mentioning that it allows a diplomatic victory) and then there is no mention of that victory.

The Viceroy · February 22, 2002, 04:44

More of a asphetic one this ...

If you trade Monotheism from another Civ, you don't get the "Medeival age screen" , but the change does take place.

Ok .. hardly a show stopper .. but it all adds up.

Barry Caudill · February 22, 2002, 10:05

Quote:

Originally posted by Alxander
After disbanding a captured city by pop rushing a worker/setller, and then resettling a new city (with the same settler or one built from your civ) in or near the same spot as the civ you conquered your people are still crying about -the cruel opression you brought down on them, is this a bug? I find it really annoying that I disband a city to get rid of the unhappy people, only to find that when I resettle in the same spot on good land the people complain as if they were conquered?? Can someone explain to me if theres a logical reason for it or not?

This is not a bug. Workers and settlers that are made from foreign nationals are still made up of those nationals in their unit state. The workers will work at the reduced rate of a captured worker and the settlers will transport the foreign national to the new city. The best thing to do would be to take the foreign-made worker or settler and add it to a larger city where they will have no impact and will be quickly absorbed...then build a settler from a city that is all yours.

Speedy

Gramphos · February 22, 2002, 16:26

I find this very disturbing. If you walk on a hut with the first of your two movement points of 2-movement units and the hut doesn't generate a popup (you get anything but science) the unit will continue one more step in the same direcion as when it entered the hut. I never had this problem before the 1.17 patch, so I decided to post about it here.

GodKing · February 22, 2002, 16:45

I have encountered three "bugs", but I havn't had much of an oppertunity to play since 1.17

- The workers are not showing their origin on the main screen, although they do show it if you click on them.

-Sometimes when a foriegn nation creats an embasie (sp?) in my capitol, their capitol appears on my world map as if I had set up an embasie with them. However, I don't get to look inside their city as if I set one up, nor do I have the option of setting one up. So only one nation has to set up the embasie and the other has its effects for free (minus the sneak peak).

- When I enter Anarchy, the treasury doesn't change, up or down. This I can understand to be something as a protection for when you change governments, I'm not sure that I like it.....

That's all I've found. Thanks.

star mouse · February 22, 2002, 17:08

When you select a worker that's in a large stack of workers, and press "j" to mass-move all workers, only workers of the same nationality are moved.

I also confirm these:

Quote:

If you walk on a hut with the first of your two movement points of 2-movement units and the hut doesn't generate a popup (you get anything but science) the unit will continue one more step in the same direcion as when it entered the hut.

I got this when using Scouts, but horsemen and Chariots work too.

Quote:

If you trade Monotheism from another Civ, you don't get the "Medeival age screen" , but the change does take place.

This happened to me when I got Currency from the Great Library, and Currency was the last tech I had left in the Ancient Era.

Quote:

The workers are not showing their origin on the main screen, although they do show it if you click on them.

The display of nationality for workers is a bit screwed overall.

Quote:

lakes still show up as "coast" if you right-click them and look at terrain info.

If you want to determine if it's a lake or sea, check the food production. Lakes produce 2 food, coasts produce 1 food.

I have had inland "lakes" so large that they were considered oceans by the game, and you could build harbours and boats. Does anyone know how the game determines if a landlocked body of water is "lake" or "ocean"?

Christantine The Great · February 22, 2002, 17:18

3 bugs, 3 saves:

HorseProb:
I have 2 horse resources, one on a colony island. Navigation and magnetism have been discovered and there is a port connected to the horse on the island. Guess what, only one horse resource on the main island.

SaltpeterProb:
Ditto. This time, I demolished the road and I got access back. I'm not sure if I did so with the horse 'source.

Chris1:
Same game, far into the future. I've found that, when I retire, I don't get the wonderful playback feature.

Willem · February 22, 2002, 17:20

Quote:

Originally posted by GodKing

- When I enter Anarchy, the treasury doesn't change, up or down. This I can understand to be something as a protection for when you change governments, I'm not sure that I like it.....

This is a game feature, the economy is null during Anarchy, no unit or improvement costs, and no money earned. If you don't like it you can change it in the government area of the editor. Just check "Requires Maintenance" and uncheck "All Units Free".

Willem · February 22, 2002, 17:23

Quote:

Originally posted by star mouse

I have had inland "lakes" so large that they were considered oceans by the game, and you could build harbours and boats. Does anyone know how the game determines if a landlocked body of water is "lake" or "ocean"?

I suspect by size, or number of squares. I've noticed the same thing as well.

JohnE · February 22, 2002, 18:02

Quote:

Originally posted by notyoueither

Prolly a fix for the work camp exploit. The tyrrants would whip the pop till they were good and satisfied. Disband the city into a settler. Settle immediately in that same spot and have absolutely no carry-over of unhappiness.

I have not seen what you describe, but I like it if Firaxis did it. How would you like to live in a city founded on the bones of your ill-treated ancestors?

Salve

They fixed the pop rushers' little red wagons, that's for sure. Believe me, I used to pop rush more. But they went overboard.

Raising the penalty time frame to 40 turns is just plain silly. It is also ridiculous that you inherit unhappiness caused by drafting and pop rushing the AI did before you took a city. Both of these facts are good examples of changes that strait-jacket strategy in the name of "eliminating exploits."

Barry Caudill · February 22, 2002, 18:40

Quote:

Originally posted by Willem

I suspect by size, or number of squares. I've noticed the same thing as well.

If it's all coast squares, it's a lake. If it has sea or ocean squares, it works like an ocean.

Speedy

Egyptian · February 22, 2002, 19:16

Since I downloaded the 1.17f patch, I have had chronic problems with the Foreign Advisors Screen. On every game I've played since the patch, only four or five foriegn leaders are visible on the Foreign Advisors Screen. This happens whether I play with 8 players or 16 players. It makes it very difficult to determine who has mutual protection, rights of passage, war, etc. Everything else is great. Has anyone else had this problem, or does anyone know how to fix it?

player1 · February 22, 2002, 20:08

Possibile Bug:
When trying to clear forests with multiple wokers, after clering, game stops, I can't move any units, but can look Fx screens, chage production, etc..
I can select but not move units.
If I press W, selected unit is deseclected but new unit doesn't come to place. There is just message "plese wait".

Also forest square looks not cleared up, until I scroll game with mouse or keybord.

After 30-90 sec all returns to normall.

P.S.
I use stacks when moving workers.

Willem · February 22, 2002, 20:56

Quote:

Originally posted by Egyptian
Since I downloaded the 1.17f patch, I have had chronic problems with the Foreign Advisors Screen. On every game I've played since the patch, only four or five foriegn leaders are visible on the Foreign Advisors Screen. This happens whether I play with 8 players or 16 players. It makes it very difficult to determine who has mutual protection, rights of passage, war, etc. Everything else is great. Has anyone else had this problem, or does anyone know how to fix it?

Have you tried Shift-right clicking on the empty spaces?

Wjousts · February 22, 2002, 21:30

Quote:

Originally posted by Jaybe

As I recall from the last game I finished (some weeks ago), it takes several seconds/couple minutes for the Replay to be prepared. Get out of your seat for a couple minutes and come back to it.

I tried starting a game with 2 civs on a small map. I played 4 or 5 turns and then retired and got the replay. However, when I finished a huge map game in 2012 with 16 civs after 15-20 minutes I still had no replay. I have a 1Ghz processor and that seems like an awful long time to wait. How about an indicator to show whether the thing is still working out the replay and an estimate of how long it'll take for the next patch?

Ironikinit · February 22, 2002, 23:46

If you d/l the save I'm attaching and end turn the French will bomb a tile and the game freezes. At least it does on my system.

Chronus · February 23, 2002, 01:46

I think I found another bug. According to the 1.16 patch features, I had to have contact with BOTH civilizations to see the relationship lines between them. Under, 1.17, I now have to have embassies with one of them to see the lines. This bug or "feature" is not listed in the 1.17 text so I'm assuming it's a bug.

Quote:

When you are in the wrong government type for a building, it is like that building does not exist.

What in the world??! Since when does the type of government you have determine what buildings you can build (or can function)??? This has not happened in any of my games as far as I can tell, nor have I found it documented anywhere. Am I misunderstanding something here???

korn469 · February 23, 2002, 02:46

Quote:

According to the 1.16 patch features, I had to have contact with BOTH civilizations to see the relationship lines between them. Under, 1.17, I now have to have embassies with one of them to see the lines. This bug or "feature" is not listed in the 1.17 text so I'm assuming it's a bug.

when it says contact, did it specify an embassy? it sounds more like if you have encountered both civs, even if you don't have an embassy with either of them that you can see if they are at war or not

though i'm not positive about this

Quote:

What in the world??! Since when does the type of government you have determine what buildings you can build (or can function)??? This has not happened in any of my games as far as I can tell, nor have I found it documented anywhere. Am I misunderstanding something here???

this is an editor feature that didn't function correctly, and it only applies to mods for now

Willem · February 23, 2002, 03:04

Quote:

Originally posted by korn469

this is an editor feature that didn't function correctly, and it only applies to mods for now

And no doubt plans for a future expansion pack. There's a lot of areas in the editor right now that aren't being used in the basic game. I'm sure they're there for a reason.

korn469 · February 23, 2002, 03:35

Willem

i hope so

also we need a forbidden government selection, where a building doesn't work under only one government type

Willem · February 23, 2002, 03:49

Quote:

Originally posted by korn469
Willem

i hope so

also we need a forbidden government selection, where a building doesn't work under only one government type

I'm working on it.

My ideas so far:

Monarchy: High Council
Republic: Senate
Democracy: Parliament
Communism: Politburo
Dictatorship: High Command
Socialism: People's Congress

korn469 · February 23, 2002, 12:53

Quote:

Monarchy: High Council
Republic: Senate
Democracy: Parliament
Communism: Politburo
Dictatorship: High Command
Socialism: People's Congress

willem,

that's different than what i was talking about, i mean an extra editor option, so for examples that cathedrals wouldn't work under communism, but they would work under all other government types, what you are talking about is buildings that would work only under under one form of government, and that option isn't as attractive because to properly do it now (banning communism from building cathedrals) you would have to set a cathedral like building for all other government types, meaning you'd have to build the same building several times and each time you switched governments you would lose the extra culture for having a building operate for 1000 years

it's a suboptimal solution to the problem, but since its our only choice right now, keep up the good work

Willem · February 23, 2002, 13:29

Quote:

Originally posted by korn469

willem,

that's different than what i was talking about, i mean an extra editor option, so for examples that cathedrals wouldn't work under communism, but they would work under all other government types, what you are talking about is buildings that would work only under under one form of government, and that option isn't as attractive because to properly do it now (banning communism from building cathedrals) you would have to set a cathedral like building for all other government types, meaning you'd have to build the same building several times and each time you switched governments you would lose the extra culture for having a building operate for 1000 years

it's a suboptimal solution to the problem, but since its our only choice right now, keep up the good work

Yes, it would be nice to have a multiple select option for the gov specific buildings, I agree. However, the fact that they work at all is a major improvement, so I don't think we should look a gift horse in the mouth. There's a lot more opportunity now for differentiating between governments, so it's just a question of working with what we have. And losing the 1000 years of culture doesn't really matter to me since I'm adding several cultural imrovements, i.e. Concert Halls, Art Galleries. So that should compensate for that loss. Plus I'll still have my Libraries and Temples.

Besides, I think in a way it would make it more realistic. For example, a civ that switched from Monarchy to Republic would evolve very different cultural norms and values than they did before. Having them be forced to rebuild their primary happiness building would represent those changes in that society. It would take time to develop their new culture. And in the case of Democracy, one of the underlying principles is the seperation of church and state so, like Communism, a Cathedral isn't appropriate for that gov type either. Having to build a City Hall improvement would be much better for representing that change in perspective.

Culture hasn't been a steady progression since the dawn of civilization. It's come and gone in fits and spurts. So it seems totally reasonable that a civ would have to rebuild some of their happiness/culture infrastructure. And it's not like it would be losing culture, it just stands still for awhile, before their new culture kicks in.

m_m_x · February 23, 2002, 14:41

a minor graphic bug
the game dosent use the modren fortress image anymore.