Without Criticism, There Would Be No Decent Patching: Agree or Disagree? - Page 2

Taxidopolis · February 15, 2002, 21:52

voted other...

this poll is just silly. It muddles general issues of the value of constructive criticism, the history of debate here in the forums, emotive issues of whiners v fanboys, and how/if Firaxis monitors the forums. I think a simpler poll would have asked something along the lines of "Without the repeated criticisms of Civ3's shortcomings in these forums Firaxis would not have released another patch " and then an agree or disagree option. As it is constructed, this poll is just a disguised platform for the so-called whiners to justify their posts.

I also voted other since it seems clear that

a) the game was released early to catch the Christmas market

b) Firaxis knew it wasn't complete to the specs already being worked toward

c) the game was playable as it stands

d) Firaxis would finish the game asap after Christmas

e) release patches at intervals after Christmas as and when work was completed.

It's clear they've been working on the latest patch for a while and it's obvious they'll monitor forums to look for glitches they are unaware of and pick up on suggestions for improvement.

If there's one thing that folk maybe could influence it might be for Firaxis to go for a multiplayer option. I don't see any hints that they are committed to it whereas Firaxis are regularly posting in this forum and over at fanatics on the minor glitches we are all aware of.

Also the diplomacy option to me seems still half complete (a little like the editor is/was) and I hope they get stuck into that side of the game too.

DrFell · February 15, 2002, 21:55

You sound like a whiner to me welcome aboard

Taxidopolis · February 15, 2002, 22:14

Quote:

Originally posted by DrFell
You sound like a whiner to me welcome aboard

Hehehe...

I think maybe that boat is full already

yin26 · February 15, 2002, 22:24

Quote:

this poll is just silly. It muddles general issues

By design, I should add. Simple polls are, well, simple.

Taxidopolis · February 15, 2002, 22:45

Quote:

Originally posted by yin26
By design, I should add. Simple polls are, well, simple.

Yeah but this poll conflates two things: the folks branded whiners and the folks offering critiques of the game and its gameplay, doesn't it ?

thinkingamer · February 15, 2002, 22:46

Quote:

Originally posted by Sirian

Good faith goes a long way with me. It's not everything, but it's the biggest thing. That's all I have to say for now.

- Sirian

i had a very strong faith in Civ3 2 years ago before its release........ sure, Civ2 had flaws when it was released, but at least it was near perfectly playable....... Just look at Democracy: the 'whining people' surely does not help create a better goverment.........

Spec · February 15, 2002, 22:49

Quote:

Originally posted by DrFell
Yeah, without criticism the game would not improve at all, apart from a few bug fixes. You can see this with stacked movement, do you honestly think that would have gone in without people complaining about the time it takes to move units around? Or the weakened retreat. Constuctive criticism is vital for improving the game, all you whiner whiners do no real good at all.

I agree!

AND I LIKE CIV3!!!!!!

....."running away blushing".........

yin26 · February 15, 2002, 22:59

Quote:

Yeah but this poll conflates two things: the folks branded whiners and the folks offering critiques of the game and its gameplay, doesn't it ?

Actually, this is one of the issues I wanted to see get aired out. Where does 'critique' end and 'whining' begin? And, in the end, does the difference matter?

thinkingamer · February 15, 2002, 23:26

Quote:

Originally posted by thinkingamer
Just look at Democracy: the 'whining people' surely does not help create a better government.........

Ups, i meant to be ironic, but it kinda look like whinning people are unhelpfull in my quote; what i meant was that Democracy is made out of whining people and therefore whining people whining to their government are essential creating are better government.

Taxidopolis · February 17, 2002, 08:16

Quote:

Originally posted by yin26
Actually, this is one of the issues I wanted to see get aired out. Where does 'critique' end and 'whining' begin? And, in the end, does the difference matter?

The difference is important. Constructive criticism is usually listened to, whining is merely tolerated or ignored.

As for the difference, surely there's an element of repetition involved in whining ? In the forums for example, there's no harm in repeating a criticism to underline a point. But were I to post the same point over and over again I'd be a whiner. If the same points is being made by other people is not relevant, that's just a general barrage of criticism and if I were on the receiving end I'd surely take notice. If I, though, not only repeat my points repetitively but jump in on unconnected threads to make the point I become more than a whiner, I become a nuisance. That holds for everybody else too.

Try this simple self-health check: go to the membership area and check out the volumes of your posts...you'll get also a figure of the average posts per day that you are making. If this figure is higher than 2 I'd suggest you're in danger of being either a whiner or an out and out fanboy ;-)

And please, no flames. I'm a fence-sitting fanwhine

Zachriel · February 17, 2002, 12:00

IMHO, and as used on this forum, "whining" would refer to not to criticisms of the game, but attacks on the integrity of Firaxis, or an assertion that someone has ripped them off because they didn't get stack movement, or that the world of computer gaming will be ended forever because their tank was killed by a spearman.

MarkG · February 17, 2002, 12:17

excellent try yin!

indeed the fact you dont even recognize that there IS whining("looks like 'whining.'") makes this poll really a good start for a constructive discussion between "fanboys" and "whiners"....