thie HAS to be a bug

The Andy-Man · February 17, 2002, 08:56

Rome declares war on me in about 400AD, 600AD they still dont talk to me i get the zulus in on my side.
800 AD romans still wont talk to me, they SIGN A PEACE TREATY WITH ZULUS AND THEY DIDNT EVEN HAVE 1 BATTLE!!!!(well maybe 1).

1200AD, romans still wont speak to me, despite being in awe of my culture etc etc me being number 1 etc etc. is this a 'dont speak to nice egyptian republic bug?(had to revolt due to war weariness - picking a religeous civ seems to be the only thing to do......)

No one EVER seems to want to accept a trade deal either

and another rant before i go, why is it that the roman warriors consitently whip my arse even though i have fields of swordsman and horsemen (some elite)?

i am using kestrels unit mania and the latest patch if that helps.

Worthingtons · February 17, 2002, 11:57

Because my freind, God is on the side of he with Mighty Legions (or something like that)

Be Rome Not Egypt!

John Paul Jones · February 17, 2002, 12:07

Try maneuvering Rome into a situation where Caesar will parlay. Amass a force, then threaten/conquer one of his cities. Or...be patient.

The Andy-Man · February 17, 2002, 13:20

well, they took 2 of my cities, and i have taken like 4 of theirs and raised them. i mean, why wont they atleast talk to me and just tell me to **** off when i offer them peace, thats better then them not even seeing my envoy.

Worthingtons · February 17, 2002, 13:28

YEah, the best way to get the AI to talk ususally is to take some of thier cities.

Of course, Rome Shall Prevail

John Paul Jones · February 17, 2002, 13:29

Razing his citys probably did it. He's mad as hell and decided to ignore you for an age

ROMA VICTOR!

The Andy-Man · February 17, 2002, 13:36

so, to get a peace, i have to take his crap worthless cities in ther middle of a jangle, they serve no purpose but to annoy me, i have to KEEP these.

oh why cant you have a 3rd party to call for peace like in SMAC

Willem · February 17, 2002, 13:41

Yes, the other civs don't take kindly to the human player razing cities. You've no doubt become his mortal enemy, and there's the possibilty that the only way out of the situation is to destroy him completely. Sometimes they just won't make peace no matter what you do, that's just part of the game. It would be nice if you could get another civ to negotiate on your behalf, but I'm afraid that diplomacy option isn't available at this time. So you're just going to have to accept it.

Willem · February 17, 2002, 13:45

Quote:

Originally posted by The Andy-Man
so, to get a peace, i have to take his crap worthless cities in ther middle of a jangle, they serve no purpose but to annoy me, i have to KEEP these.

oh why cant you have a 3rd party to call for peace like in SMAC

Well in SMAC, razing a city was considered an Atrocity, resulting in a civ gang up, so what's the difference? If anything Civ III has made it easier to do. At least the Zulus are still on your side. If this were SMAC you'd be at war with everyone right now. But I agree with, I'd like to see some third party diplomacy options in the game.

The Andy-Man · February 17, 2002, 13:46

thing is, the romans have a massive empire and i dont wanna waste all of the game picking them off and stuck in a monarchy when i just wanna be a republic that minds its own buisness

isnt there a...dare i say it..... cheat?

Willem · February 17, 2002, 14:18

Quote:

Originally posted by The Andy-Man
thing is, the romans have a massive empire and i dont wanna waste all of the game picking them off and stuck in a monarchy when i just wanna be a republic that minds its own buisness

isnt there a...dare i say it..... cheat?

No sorry, you'll just have to deal with it. I had the same thing one time with the Indians, and the only way to end the war was to destroy them. I've heard that even starving a captured city to non-existance will get the other civ upset. They remember what cities where theirs, and they get upset if you harm their former citizens. It's part of the culture thing, they have memories. And sometimes they just don't want anything to do with you, they'd rather go down fighting.

MonsterMan · February 17, 2002, 15:04

If you completely whip someone's ass, they may believe that the war is a fight to the death. If they think they will never become a power to be reckoned with by signing a peace treaty... you can't blaim them for refusing. It's happened to me a few times, the civ has three cities on a distant island and I don't really care enough to grab them, but they refuse to see me and sign a peace treaty (probably because the AI realize it's only a matter of time for them anyways).

Btw, I think there was supposed to be a Wonder in the game that forced enemies to sign peace treaties, as there was in CivII. In that game, enemies could prolong the war by refusing to talk to you. That must be the reason why other leaders refuse to talk to the player... but hey, I dunno really.

DrFell · February 17, 2002, 15:22

Just keep on fighting, they'll give up eventually. Then you get to demand ridiculously harsh peace terms.

The Andy-Man · February 17, 2002, 18:12

i tried, i really tried. but i just can stand the ****ing game anymore.

i eventually got the peace, and the a few turns later i ask them to leave my territory - you guessed it WAR.

they wont talk to me, even though cities have bin lost, (for both of us) and it is now just stupid. i didnt even get to the industrial age

Soren Johnson · February 17, 2002, 18:31

Quote:

Originally posted by The Andy-Man
Rome declares war on me in about 400AD, 600AD they still dont talk to me i get the zulus in on my side.
800 AD romans still wont talk to me, they SIGN A PEACE TREATY WITH ZULUS AND THEY DIDNT EVEN HAVE 1 BATTLE!!!!(well maybe 1).

1200AD, romans still wont speak to me, despite being in awe of my culture etc etc me being number 1 etc etc. is this a 'dont speak to nice egyptian republic bug?(had to revolt due to war weariness - picking a religeous civ seems to be the only thing to do......)

No one EVER seems to want to accept a trade deal either

and another rant before i go, why is it that the roman warriors consitently whip my arse even though i have fields of swordsman and horsemen (some elite)?

i am using kestrels unit mania and the latest patch if that helps.

so you say that the AI wouldn't talk to you from 400-1200 AD? That is the equivalent of 80 turns, and usually the AI will at most not talk to you for 10 turns. Unless you have fought 7 or 8 wars already with Rome, this sounds like a bug. I would be highly interested in seeing a saved game from shortly after the war began and from 1200 with the AI unwilling to talk.

The Andy-Man · February 18, 2002, 13:15

man if i had seen that post before i deleted it out of frustration.

it was, my 1st war with the romans.

perhaps i will start again and see if it happens, or i am just some super unlucky ****wit

the 2nd war, which started in around 1300, went on until like 1455-1500. and they never spoke to me once, and as i said, they tok a city i took a city or 2, they just didnt wanna talk, and cos i am so lame at the military (i cant cope with 80legons and i only have 20knights) this is were i just deleted it all.

m_m_x · February 18, 2002, 13:39

maybe u have an auto save file..??check the autosave folder

Thrawn05 · February 18, 2002, 14:12

Quote:

Originally posted by Rothy
Because my freind, God is on the side of he with Mighty Legions (or something like that)

Be Rome Not Egypt!

ROMA VICTOR!

Iuppiter deus est.
Deus in Româ habitat!

The Andy-Man · February 18, 2002, 14:18

'maybe u have an auto save file..??check the autosave folder'

sorry, when i said deleted, i ment the whole civ game. was so pissed off, and i had to vent it some how, and i dint wanna punch the table again cos my hand has a bruise from last time a gave civ3 a go.....

Sabre2th · February 18, 2002, 14:54

Have you considered an anger management class of some sort? The thing we need is you injuring yourself or others the next time you disagree with the Romans.

Soren Johnson · February 18, 2002, 16:05

Quote:

Originally posted by The Andy-Man
'maybe u have an auto save file..??check the autosave folder'

sorry, when i said deleted, i ment the whole civ game. was so pissed off, and i had to vent it some how, and i dint wanna punch the table again cos my hand has a bruise from last time a gave civ3 a go.....

that's too bad. I would like to get to the bottom of this because in 1.17, if you are fighting your first war against a civ, they should be willing to talk to you after AT MOST ten turns. Has anyone else experienced a similar problem? I would love to see some saved games.

Worthingtons · February 18, 2002, 16:38

hmm.. I was once at war with the Americans for a loong time before they'd talk... but that was pre 1.17f anyway..

Willem · February 18, 2002, 20:05

Quote:

Originally posted by Soren Johnson Firaxis

that's too bad. I would like to get to the bottom of this because in 1.17, if you are fighting your first war against a civ, they should be willing to talk to you after AT MOST ten turns. Has anyone else experienced a similar problem? I would love to see some saved games.

I came across another bug you might want to look at. A short while ago, I noticed that the game was resetting my Science rate every turn. I would set it to 10%, and the next turn it jump to 40%. This happened consistently every turn. After trying to figure out what was causing it, I discovered that it happened when I adjusted the rate cap in the Governments area of the editor. I was trying to lower the amount a Despot government could spend on research to 60%, and when I did, I was no longer able to control my sliders. As soon as I put it back to 100%, the problem went away.

BTW, this was happening pre-patch as well.

Soren Johnson · February 18, 2002, 20:14

Quote:

Originally posted by Willem

I came across another bug you might want to look at. A short while ago, I noticed that the game was resetting my Science rate every turn. I would set it to 10%, and the next turn it jump to 40%. This happened consistently every turn. After trying to figure out what was causing it, I discovered that it happened when I adjusted the rate cap in the Governments area of the editor. I was trying to lower the amount a Despot government could spend on research to 60%, and when I did, I was no longer able to control my sliders. As soon as I put it back to 100%, the problem went away.

BTW, this was happening pre-patch as well.

if your science rate was 10%, then your "tax rate" was 90%. Thus, the tax rate was automatically adjusted back to 60% and your science up to 40%.

Willem · February 18, 2002, 20:28

Quote:

Originally posted by Soren Johnson Firaxis

if your science rate was 10%, then your "tax rate" was 90%. Thus, the tax rate was automatically adjusted back to 60% and your science up to 40%.

Ah yes, I see. I didn't realize that affected everything, I figured it was only the Science. Any chance you could seperate those sometime down the road? I'd like to be able to put some research limitations on early govs. It would be much appreciated.

The Andy-Man · February 19, 2002, 16:16

i started a new game with the patch, but without kestrels mod pack, this time they seeem to talk, even the french, they were oevr seas and i we never battled it out anywhere, and after bout 10-15 turns (cant remember) they talked.

maybe it was using a mod pack from v1.16 on v1.17???

Soren Johnson · February 19, 2002, 16:46

Quote:

Originally posted by The Andy-Man
i started a new game with the patch, but without kestrels mod pack, this time they seeem to talk, even the french, they were oevr seas and i we never battled it out anywhere, and after bout 10-15 turns (cant remember) they talked.

maybe it was using a mod pack from v1.16 on v1.17???

hmm... that is possible. The basic algorithm is that it takes about 5-10 turns for them to be willing to talk, and it is multiplied by the number of times you have been at war previously (to counter war-jacking...) So, if you ever experience something different from this, it would be a bug, and I would love to take a look at it.

btw, we are considering lowering these values in the future.

The Andy-Man · February 19, 2002, 16:55

is succcess in the feild taken into acount, ie, if no cities them selves are attcked, but alot of units are lost in the open and the AI is taking imense loses very quickly, does it view this similar to i it was loosing cities like crazy, and also if it is winning feild battles does it demand more from a treaty?

Soren Johnson · February 19, 2002, 17:10

Quote:

Originally posted by The Andy-Man
is succcess in the feild taken into acount, ie, if no cities them selves are attcked, but alot of units are lost in the open and the AI is taking imense loses very quickly, does it view this similar to i it was loosing cities like crazy, and also if it is winning feild battles does it demand more from a treaty?

everything is taken into account... including pillaging, for example. but weighed according to effect. Obviously, capturing a city is better than pillaging 10 tiles.

Raion · February 19, 2002, 18:29

I think you ought to tell first if you are using a mod or a whatever file that is not from the game, first.

I made a scenario, and if the Romans are next to me, they will hardly ever fight, except they are starting new cities.

Rome is Rome, just like Persians are Persians, they expand like the Americans, and if usually one leaves them alone, they end up fighting each other for more territory.

Also, one can turn off some of the 'win' conditions.

Different Civ's for different folks!

Otherwise, Rome's army will be better than some other Civ's army.
Also keep in mind that leaders will start wars to create a leader to rush a wonder, if their civ is impressed with your culture.

Play the game!